Fountain pen - recommendations

[mrs quoad]

Spoiler: big pics

First 2 lines of this are Nakaya; Lamy 2000; then Sailor Sapporo, then Nakaya, then Lamy, then Sailor, etc.

(Our camera is crap at macro, so apologies for any fuzziness / lack of detail...)

One of the things I find it quite hard to communicate with photos is the depth and three-dimensionality of the wood. If that makes sense. The weight, too, is properly gorgeous. It feels like a decent bit of pen. IYSWIM.

The area that I was expecting to be a bit patchy - the cap - isn't. The seal looks / feels completely tight. Hence the slightly questionable photo of the inside of a cap

It's also helped me kinda work out what it is that I don't like about the Lamy. The Lamy's nib is just too damned smooth. I can't get any feedback whatsoever with it, and I really don't like that. I'm guessing that's related to the gold content Nakaya certainly flag up that they use 14k by choice, same as Sailor's Sapporo, and those're the two nibs I properly like atm.

Definitely tempted to change the rolled string to an EF flex. And definitely tempted to change my requested ink flow from 'fast' to 'medium.' Looking at this 'medium,' I reckon I'd be soaking through the page before reaching the ends of any lines

Also, I need to improve my handwriting

 

[Cid]

One of the things I find it quite hard to communicate with photos is the depth and three-dimensionality of the wood. If that makes sense. The weight, too, is properly gorgeous. It feels like a decent bit of pen. IYSWIM.

No, as a cabinet maker this makes absolutely no sense.

It's also helped me kinda work out what it is that I don't like about the Lamy. The Lamy's nib is just too damned smooth. I can't get any feedback whatsoever with it, and I really don't like that. I'm guessing that's related to the gold content Nakaya certainly flag up that they use 14k by choice, same as Sailor's Sapporo, and those're the two nibs I properly like atm.

The Lamy is 14ct Gold too, the wearing tip on most nibs won't actually be gold afaik, just the body... My Lamy studio is extremely smooth as well - think maybe they build there nibs for minimum flex/scratch... Seem to remember the nibs on the safari doing the fold over type thing more easily, these seem pretty solidly built. Material is thicker than my Rotrings anyway.

Definitely tempted to change the rolled string to an EF flex. And definitely tempted to change my requested ink flow from 'fast' to 'medium.' Looking at this 'medium,' I reckon I'd be soaking through the page before reaching the ends of any lines

Well you've got a standard one now anyway, might as well.

Also, I need to improve my handwriting

Yep! Not much point in buying expensive pens when you can't use them properly...

 

[mrs quoad]

Yeah, I googled 14kt vs 18kt nibs, and the first few sites I hit all said 'nah, that's all balls'

I find the Lamy completely without personality, though. Because of that smoothness. I write with a really light touch, and I think that feeds into... appreciating a bit of feedback from the nib. IYSWIM. Because I'm not getting it from the weight of my hand. And I can't write at all without a bit of feedback.

@ not using them properly!

I'm writing with 'em, ffs, and loving the feel of 'em But, yes. I do need to tidy it up a bit, for the sake of the consumers of my handwriting, if nothing else. Generations of bored undergraduates may come to comment on the beautiful - but hypercritical, and somewhat anally retentive - feedback of Doctor Quoad.

 

[mrs quoad]

Actually... two slim books on Spencerian and Copperplate script arrived yesterday. Off Amazon, £6 between them.

The one thing that raises my eyebrows about 'em is that they seem to push for an oblique nib holder. As does pretty much every online resource I've seen (FPN and IAMPETH in particular). Which... makes me wonder whether or not it's worth beginning to engage with them

E2a: any other sources / suggestions?

 

[Cid]

Pff! Spencerian and all that florid crap - good chancery hand all the way, you want an obscure book called Good Handwriting by John C Tarr. He doesn't push for an oblique nib. He's really not a fan of roundhand - 'time-wasting loops'.

 

[mrs quoad]

I like time wasting loops, goddamit

If I don't want time wasting loops, i can write in normal.

 

[Cid]

You can write illuminated sodding manuscripts if you go for chancery...

 

[Cid]

I think that's my next project actually, master illumination. My handwriting needs a lot of practice though.

 

[mrs quoad]

Chancery looks like it'd need still other nibs!

 

[Cid]

Perhaps, but no traditional form of handwriting is going to be based on an EF nib! You need some variation in line thickness, but that's it.

Same goes for roundhand to be fair, no reason you shouldn't be able to do either with any nib, just won't get the thickness change. The problem with roundhand is it often ends up being totally incomprehensible.

 

[mrs quoad]

Yeah.

tbf, I'm talking about neater / tidier handwriting first and foremost.

With inclinations towards developing a more pretentious script along the way.

(Or inclinations towards developing a neatier / tidier handwriting along the way to learning a more pretentious script).

Given the choice of chancery or flouncey, I'd go for flouncey every time.

 

[Cid]

With roundhand the main thing is to watch your vowels, chancery is designed to be clear and legible, roundhand is er... not. People have a tendency to flow lots of letters together, creating a lot of quite pretty, but totally impenetrable loops.

 

[Cid]

Not sure what you'd call Athos' handwriting, but that kind of thing is a good compromise.

 

[mrs quoad]

With roundhand the main thing is to watch your vowels, chancery is designed to be clear and legible, roundhand is er... not. People have a tendency to flow lots of letters together, creating a lot of quite pretty, but totally impenetrable loops.

That sounds perfect for years of academic feedback.

 

[mrs quoad]

I've spent a large portion of this afternoon writing in Nakaya F and Sailor EF, alternate paragraphs, trying to work out which I prefer

It's kinda come down to actually, genuinely preferring the EF. Largely for practical reasons. I just don't smudge anything, ever with an EF. And apart from that, the writing's pretty similar. (F looks more... conventional... but I kinda prefer EF writing )

 

[Cid]

EF flex for something a bit special then I suppose... How do you hold your pen that you end up smudging stuff?

 

[mrs quoad]

EF flex for something a bit special then I suppose... How do you hold your pen that you end up smudging stuff?

With my right hand? Pen fingers probably at about 9-10 o'clock

Moving down a line, and back to the left, leaves my resting fingers smudging stuff.

I can kinda avoid it if I lift my hand considerably higher, but tbh that's quite an adjustment.

With an EF, it just isn't a problem. The ink's already dried by the time I've moved down

 

[Cid]

Well there are plenty of tutorials out there, on how to hold a pen I mean.

<sniggers>

 

[Athos]

With my right hand? Pen fingers probably at about 9-10 o'clock

Moving down a line, and back to the left, leaves my resting fingers smudging stuff.

I can kinda avoid it if I lift my hand considerably higher, but tbh that's quite an adjustment.

With an EF, it just isn't a problem. The ink's already dried by the time I've moved down

What about diluting the ink a little bit, so that it dries quicker?

 

[Athos]

Not sure what you'd call Athos' handwriting, but that kind of thing is a good compromise.

Thanks. I wanted something attractive but easy to read and not too slow to write. That's what I came up with.

 

[Athos]

Spoiler: big pics

First 2 lines of this are Nakaya; Lamy 2000; then Sailor Sapporo, then Nakaya, then Lamy, then Sailor, etc.

(Our camera is crap at macro, so apologies for any fuzziness / lack of detail...)

One of the things I find it quite hard to communicate with photos is the depth and three-dimensionality of the wood. If that makes sense. The weight, too, is properly gorgeous. It feels like a decent bit of pen. IYSWIM.

The area that I was expecting to be a bit patchy - the cap - isn't. The seal looks / feels completely tight. Hence the slightly questionable photo of the inside of a cap

It's also helped me kinda work out what it is that I don't like about the Lamy. The Lamy's nib is just too damned smooth. I can't get any feedback whatsoever with it, and I really don't like that. I'm guessing that's related to the gold content Nakaya certainly flag up that they use 14k by choice, same as Sailor's Sapporo, and those're the two nibs I properly like atm.

Definitely tempted to change the rolled string to an EF flex. And definitely tempted to change my requested ink flow from 'fast' to 'medium.' Looking at this 'medium,' I reckon I'd be soaking through the page before reaching the ends of any lines

Also, I need to improve my handwriting

I can't wait to get home to see the pics properly (am posting from my phone where they're too small).

The EF flex with a medium flow in that beautiful pen sounds just about perfect.

I know what you mean about the wood; I once commissioned a ukulele (Pete Howlett, check out his site) in fiddleback mahogany. It still makes me gasp every time I look at it!

 

[smmudge]

The Nakaya looks lush quoad!

So I got the esterbrook through, and the nib (which took a bit longer because customs got hold of it, bastards! Handling fee was twice as much as the custom charge too!). I've ordered some talc and shellac and a couple of sacs. Changed the nib alright, now I'm trying to get the pen apart, and not having much luck. Tried lots of hairdrying but it won't budge. I saw a video on youtube and a bloke just pulled it apart, like it was really easy!

 

[Cid]

If one of you is bidding on the pen I managed to incompetently miss last week I'll... um. Complain.

 

[mrs quoad]

If one of you is bidding on the pen I managed to incompetently miss last week I'll... um. Complain.

Another Esterbrook?

I'm all penned out ATM

E2a: apart from, perhaps, an oblique nib holder from the US once I get a paycheque through

 

[Cid]

Yeah, an Esterbrook... Won it in the end. Now the wait.

 

[smmudge]

I did it I did it! Esterbrook has come apart, and with only minor damage (I scratched the plastic a bit..). This sac looks like it's in good nick but I'm going to change it anyway.

 

[Hassan I Sabha]

This thread has managed to get me interested in pens, I had a Lamy rollerball for Christmas and have just bought a Lamy Safari (fine nib) from Cult of Pens and I really enjoy the smooth writing experience. I would like to look at getting another pen, and would appreciate some advice on the type of thing to look out for on ebay. I have no problem in slowly building up a pen collection from the lower end of the market upwards and if anyone can point out anything worth looking at on ebay that would great. I have seen this on ebay, and after some of the discussion on Esterbrooks wondered if this would be a good start?

 

[mrs quoad]

This thread has managed to get me interested in pens, I had a Lamy rollerball for Christmas and have just bought a Lamy Safari (fine nib) from Cult of Pens and I really enjoy the smooth writing experience. I would like to look at getting another pen, and would appreciate some advice on the type of thing to look out for on ebay. I have no problem in slowly building up a pen collection from the lower end of the market upwards and if anyone can point out anything worth looking at on ebay that would great. I have seen this on ebay, and after some of the discussion on Esterbrooks wondered if this would be a good start?

Can't comment on that un, though it might be worth mentioning that that's a non-flex nib (IIUC) whilst Athos was mostly touting the benefits of Esterbrook's flex nibs.

If you like fine nibs, I'd reallyreallyreally recommend a Platinum Carbon at some point. About £10-12, they remain one of the most awesome EF nibs I've encountered. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful nibs, if not the most beautiful of plastic bodies.

 

[Hassan I Sabha]

I do like fine nibs and definitely like the smooth flow of the Safari. I am pretty happy with the quality of my writing, at School it was described regularly as "it looks like a spider has crawled across the page" however with the benefit of a left handed nib I managed to improve it. Since then I have been a mechanical pencil user and over the last 30 years it has improved to a level where it can be described as pretty neat - someone actually stated today that I had "nice writing" after looking at my hand written (with Lamy) notes today after a meeting.

I would really like a fine nib and like the sound of playing around with a flexible nib, the carbon sounds interesting but I really would like a nice (pen) body as well ...

*ETA - Wow, just looked at the Platinum on CoP and that is one erm... interesting shaped body, how does that feel in the hand balance wise?

 

[Cid]

I don't think there's anything exceptional about the 2668, and - as it already has 7 bids - it probably won't be cheap. Info on nibs here: http://www.snyderfamily.com/current/estienibs.htm

What kind of writing do you have? Is there a style you want to practice, or do you just like pens? I'd definitely back up quoad on the Carbon for a very fine pen.