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Extinction Rebellion

Why is this non violent protest being perceived as so much more so than others? People keep talking about how the police feel conflicted about this and all I can think about is yes, it's great that plod aren't rushing in and breaking heads however out of the many times that they have over the years at demos I have been to a majority of people were as peaceful and non violent as this.


Clearing OC again by the looks of things.

 
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Rutita1 said:
Why is this non violent protest being perceived as so much more so than others? People keep talking about how the police feel conflicted about this and all I can think about is yes, it's great that plod are rushing in and breaking heads however out of the many times that they have over the years at demos I have been to a majority of people were as peaceful and non violent as this.
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Probably because non-violence was a stated goal and a major USP of this protest from the start. Most others don't specifically go out of their way to make that clear, and some are deliberately more aggressive.
 
Rutita1 said:
Why is this non violent protest being perceived as so much more so than others? People keep talking about how the police feel conflicted about this and all I can think about is yes, it's great that plod are rushing in and breaking heads however out of the many times that they have over the years at demos I have been to a majority of people were as peaceful and non violent as this.


Clearing OC again by the looks of things.

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It's a puzzle to me too
 
Spymaster said:
Probably because non-violence was a stated goal and a major USP of this protest from the start. Most others don't specifically go out of their way to make that clear, and some are deliberately more aggressive.
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The climate camp I mentioned above was explicitly peaceful, so it's hardly a usp of this protest. The usp of er is a willingness on the part of many participants to be nicked. Which isn't much of a selling point tbh. Ever since at least 1819 - peterloo - the authorities have been happy to assault peaceful crowds, so I don't have any confidence in your argument
 
Rutita1 said:
Why is this non violent protest being perceived as so much more so than others? People keep talking about how the police feel conflicted about this and all I can think about is yes, it's great that plod aren't rushing in and breaking heads however out of the many times that they have over the years at demos I have been to a majority of people were as peaceful and non violent as this.
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I think you answered yourself, mentioning the 'majority of people were as peaceful', it only takes a handful to kick-off, throwing bottles or whatever at the cops, and that gives them the excuse to kick-off themselves.
 
I got quite emotional yesterday at the protests, as did several old school campaigners I bumped into. The passion, commitment, energy and organisation is bloody fantastic.

I can't recommend enough to people that they should take the time to take a look. It really feels like this could be the start of something,
 
Rutita1 said:
Why is this non violent protest being perceived as so much more so than others? People keep talking about how the police feel conflicted about this and all I can think about is yes, it's great that plod aren't rushing in and breaking heads however out of the many times that they have over the years at demos I have been to a majority of people were as peaceful and non violent as this.
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Banning booze and drugs off the sites makes a huge difference and makes a clear statement that it's a protest not a party so people looking for some bottle lobbing/police-charge inciting fun aren't likely to be interested.
 
Plus, of course, this has drawn massive media attention, with live reporters on the ground, which makes things difficult for the cops.
 
I think keeping it booze free as a self policed rule might help too. That sort of thing matters not just for stopping violence but also for PR purposes. I wanted to get involved with occupy at Bristol but whenever I went there were lots of pissed up twats staggering about with cans of special brew and tents with conspiraloon banners. If it puts someone like me off who's broadly sympathetic to their views then it won't do well for the call centre staff who walked past it every day.

Editor beat me to it!
 
cupid_stunt said:
I think you answered yourself, mentioning the 'majority of people were as peaceful', it only takes a handful to kick-off, throwing bottles or whatever at the cops, and that gives them the excuse to kick-off themselves.
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All it takes for the police to kick off is for the police to kick off, as many of us here will know from first hand experience. By claiming that police violence against protests is always catalysed by some rogue element among the protestors you're just doing their PR work for them.

And even if there was a violent element, that wouldn't justify collective punishment against the entire group.
 
Also see agent provocateurs...I wonder how many under cover plod are amongst the protestors? Why are they not causing trouble like they are known to...collecting info I imagine...this police approach is much more than 'well there are no drunk twats there so they don't have an excuse' IMO.
 
Yeah, OC is being cleared again, though a much smaller police operation than before.

ETA: actually not so much smaller in numbers but they've not closed roads.
 
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For all the faults seasoned protesters level at some of what XR are doing, they have played an absolute blinder. No one's reporting any agro. Phone in shows have been talking about climate change for several days. Even some of the usual grumpy black cab drivers concede they have a point. And it seems to have drawn a wide demographic of people. I don't do public protests / marches for practicle reasons, Kudos to those involved.
 
Rutita1 said:
Also see agent provocateurs...I wonder how many under cover plod are amongst the protestors? Why are they not causing trouble like they are known to...collecting info I imagine...this police approach is much more than 'well there are no drunk twats there so they don't have an excuse' IMO.
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Yeah there is of course provocateurs. The police aren't exactly on good terms with this government so maybe letting it play out more puts increased pressure on the tories? Highlights to the public just how stretched they are? Perhaps the police actually agree with the protesters and are taking a hands of approach? It's their planet too!

Not forgetting the shitstorm they faced when kettling the G20 protest that caused the death of Ian Tomlinson. I think the police might have concluded that this time, going in heavy handed against a group of protesters protesting about human extintion who have the stated policy of non violence, no drinking and drugs, wanting to get nicked and in this particularly climate of cuts, Brexit and so on, might not be a good look for them whereas other times it was ok. I'm wildly speculating of course.
 
xenon said:
And it seems to have drawn a wide demographic of people.
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Tbh, when I walked across Waterloo Bridge and back the other day (was trying to get somewhere rather than going to the protest), the demographic was exactly as I'd thought it would be, right down to the people handing out CND stuff.
 
Because of the nature of the protests, agent provocateurs would stand out a mile and swiftly be exposed. And even the cops know that.
 
Pickman's model said:
It's a puzzle to me too
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Is it because none of us are there? No usual suspects, no class war, no individuals of interest or with records? This all makes it very non threatening for the police. There's little chance of one of them gettig hurt or something smashed up and them being blamed for letting it happen. They know they can clear it any time they want if they have to, it's not causing that much disruption, it's hot, they're tired, why not let it play out and only go in hard if they get clear instructions to.
 
probably as much about over stretched police resources as anything else. They are under considerable political pressure over knife crime - and then this all lands in their lap. Government and cops have been caught on the hop and haven't prepared any sort of response - TSG may be already deployed elsewhere.
At things like mayday, climate camp and g20 - cops had months to prepare, launch pre-emptive scare tactics and get clear instructions from government over what was the acceptable level of cuntery they could deploy.
Now its snowballed with all sorts joining in - rather than the "usual suspects"of seasoned activists - and its got huge - and generally positive - coverage.
so government and cops seem confused as to how to respond - whats most likely is that they try to prepare the ground with smear stories and wot not before going in with the heavy mob. They will be worried that this will get even bigger if they dont do something quick - but it may actually be too late and it will backfire.
All quite exciting!
Who'd have thought that by far the most disruptive and effective protests of 2019
would have nothing to do with brexit? compare and contrast with the 6 twats who tired to blockade liddle cos gammon rage.
 
Kaka Tim said:
probably as much about over stretched police resources as anything else. They are under considerable political pressure over knife crime - and then this all lands in their lap. Government and cops have been caught on the hop and haven't prepared any sort of response - TSG may be already deployed elsewhere.
At things like mayday, climate camp and g20 - cops had months to prepare, launch pre-emptive scare tactics and get clear instructions from government over what was the acceptable level of cuntery they could deploy.
Now its snowballed with all sorts joining in - rather than the "usual suspects"of seasoned activists - and its got huge - and generally positive - coverage.
so government and cops seem confused as to how to respond - whats most likely is that they try to prepare the ground with smear stories and wot not before going in with the heavy mob. They will be worried that this will get even bigger if they dont do something quick - but it may actually be too late and it will backfire.
All quite exciting!
Who'd have thought that by far the most disruptive and effective protests of 2019
would have nothing to do with brexit? compare and contrast with the 6 twats who tired to blockade liddle cos gammon rage.
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OB can clear it whenever they like, if they really want to. Too few cells? Didn’t stop them nicking en masse the Mark Duggan rioters.

Savid Javid has called for the full force of the law to be used, when as the head honcho of law in the UK he and his predecessors have been slashing law and order budgets, both in the piggery and the courts. And now he’s asking both to back him up to make him look good...
 
cupid_stunt said:
Plus, of course, this has drawn massive media attention, with live reporters on the ground, which makes things difficult for the cops.
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Again, this is bollocks. I've seen friends getting their heads bashed in on live national TV, and still 'not enough evidence' to uphold a complaint against the police. Simon Harwood was filmed battering Ian Tomlinson to the ground minutes before he died from internal injuries, and he still walked.

There are always cameras everywhere these days. The lack of police accountability is political, not a result of there being insufficient evidence of their crimes.
 
Sue said:
Tbh, when I walked across Waterloo Bridge and back the other day (was trying to get somewhere rather than going to the protest), the demographic was exactly as I'd thought it would be, right down to the people handing out CND stuff.
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Fair enough. I'm just going by vox pops and radio stuff where it seems there's quite a few older never been on a protest before types that have joined in as well.
 
My friend observed that she was out risking arrest to demonstrate, for the first time in her life, her fundamental agreement with government objectives, though seeking much greater urgency and attention. That's in sharp contrast to previous campaigns of determined civil disobedience she or others had participated in which were in direct opposition to what the government was attempting to achieve. Nuclear, road, poll tax, animal testing, new runway etc.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Savid Javid has called for the full force of the law to be used, when as the head honcho of law in the UK he and his predecessors have been slashing law and order budgets, both in the piggery and the courts. And now he’s asking both to back him up to make him look good...
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yes javid did say that - but the cops are still holding back. which suggests that what he spouts to the tory party members to help his leadership bid and what he is saying to the met might not be the same thing.
 
What's with all this agent provocateurs nonsense suddenly? Like people aren't ever angry enough to riot.
 
newbie said:
My friend observed that she was out risking arrest to demonstrate, for the first time in her life, her fundamental agreement with government objectives, though seeking much greater urgency and attention. That's in sharp contrast to previous campaigns of determined civil disobedience she or others had participated in which were in direct opposition to what the government was attempting to achieve. Nuclear, road, poll tax, animal testing, new runway etc.
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The government is trying to achieve disaster capitalism. Ameliorating the effects of climate change is a goal that stands in direct opposition to that.
 
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