(ex)-Pubs in Loughborough Junction

[prunus]

Hi,

I'll just briefly introduce myself, as this is my first thread! - I moved in near LJ about 3 years ago, been lurking here since then, but lacking in actual information to post being a newcomer (and lets be honest, shy too).

Anyway, as many will know, in the time I''ve been here The Green Man has been forcibly closed, The Mucky Duck/? Bar seemed to drift out of existence, The Harriers forcibly closed and then (in what seems like overkill!) razed and reduced to a hole in the ground. The Junction/Warrior hasn't shown any sign of life at all.

I know from readings here that there are plans to get The Warrior back into operation, and convert The Green Man to flats/a clinic; also that these plans are delayed due to one thing and another. Anyway, I was just wondering if it would be possible to collect current information on what's going on if anyone out there knows:

The Warrior: Flats and reinstate pub? Delayed until?

The Green Man: Flats and Clinic? Also delayed until/by something?

The Harriers: Work is going on on the site - The last planning application I saw until Lambeth made their planning site pretty much unusable was for a restaurant at ground and basement with flats above - does anyone know anything more current about this?

The ? Bar: Was for sale by auction a while back but I don't know what happened since - anyone?

I'm very interested in the regeneration of this area - despite its decline even in the short time I've been here I've grown very attached to it somehow - I think it deserves better than it's got recently. Looking at the Then and Now photos it seems a terrible shame that it's in such a sorry state at the moment.

 

[the B]

The ? Bar: Was for sale by auction a while back but I don't know what happened since - anyone?

Was briefly squatted - hence the Harry Roberts thing in the windows...

The owner had found a buyer through that auction but the aforementioned squatters spoiled his plans somewhat. The owner was due to make a healthy profit from sale (six figure sum) but offered a poultry sum to squatters to leave in order to get the sale completed 'in time'.

Owner needed squatters out and to 'fix up' building in time. No way he had the building fixed up before squatters went in - they sorted out the leccy and water - the gas system was completely shot and needed to be totally replaced according to gaspeople.

Owner probably going to have to fix up building properly and then resell it...

Previous tenants to squatters left in a hurry, bit of a mystery, there was rotting food on table, clothes left out to dry (with money in pockets) and was a bit Mary Celeste...

 

[hendo]

Welcome Prunus, to these boards.

LJ pubs though, a mystery to me. Not to loads of people on here though.

 

[IntoStella]

Previous tenants to squatters left in a hurry, bit of a mystery, there was rotting food on table, clothes left out to dry (with money in pockets) and was a bit Mary Celeste...

Now that is weird.

Prunus -- it's quite clear that the council has a policy (albeit ''unofficial'') to denude LJ of its licensed premises. It has proved impossible for many (perfectly respectable) applicants to get licences and permission for change of use has systematically been granted for premises such as the Green Man (an inn for hundreds of years) to turn them into yuppie flats.

If the council thinks this policy will make Loughborough Junction a safer place then it is, in my view, badly mistaken.

 

[aurora green]

Hi Prunus
There's another old pub bitten the dust in that burmuda triangle for pubs that is LJ, cant remember what it was called, I think it was the Queen of something, but it once stood near the end of Hinton Rd and is now, you guessed it, luxxury flats (bit pokey if you ask me). and the list doesn't end there.
The Wickwood Tavern on Flaxman rd, is now converted into flats. Its a bloody joke
It seems so brutal, so quick, and so short term what has gone on around here, if we fancy a pint now, theres hardly anywhere to go save the Hero of Switzerland or into Brixton or Camberwell.
I think its very bad for a community.

 

[Giles]

There was a guy posted on here who was apparently from the company that had bought both Green Man and the Warrior / Junction, and had got planning permish to make Green Man into flats with clinic on ground floor, and Junction into pub with flats above and round the side, I think.

He made it sound like the work to do them both up was going to start soon, but that was months back.

Don't know if he still reads this???

HELLO????

Giles..

 

[RaverDrew]

Isn't the Hero of Switzerland on it's way out as well though???

 

[prunus]

Aurora Green - is that the block opposite the petrol station on Hinton Road? Bit before my time if so, that block was just going up when I arrived, but it is pretty incredible that five(!) pubs within a few hundred yards of each other can be closed within a few years.

It leaves (as you say) just the Hero of Switzerland and The Cambria to serve the vast residential swathes north and south of Coldharbour Lane around here, maybe room for 150 people between them?

There does seem to be some sporadic activity in the general direction of regenerating the area (operations Loughborough and Pomfret, the 'community station', the Housing association houses on Wanless Road, improving the pedestrian crossings (alas no actual pedestrian facilities, just red paths, but...), just recently signs of the bare land behind the petrol station on Hinton Road being built on - more social housing I seem to remember from the planning application, the redesign of the Milkwood Road open space (looks pretty cool - wish I was a kid again!), plans to spruce up Ruskin park - including a cafe (yippee!); I'm sure there are more I've left out.
Anyway, it's a not unimpressive list, but I think the lack of a selection of evening 'A3' destinations, ie pubs and restaurants, leaves a serious hole in the centre of the potential community. It's where you can meet and get to know your wider-field neighbours, find out what's going on in the area, community 'networking' if you see what I mean.
Anyway, that's my opinion.

It'll be interesting to see what rises in place of the Harriers, whether it really will be a restaurant or if the plan has mysteriously morphed into all flats. If that could become a decent local independent, and the Warrior got up and running, I think it'd be a really good start.

 

[hatboy]

Harriers - much missed reggae pub. Gun incident outside = authorities pull it down!! A loss. OTT, unfair. Seen the plans. Penthouse appts coming soon.

? - Don't know.

GM and Warrior - all permissions in place. Developer dragging feet. Explanation not clear. Possibly due to a 50 week delay by Lambeth on permisions for Warrior which made it all more difficult. The developer himself tells me that the 12 week delay caused to the GM by me and others wanting something useful (if not a pub) on ground floor of GM is not the reason).

Plan is: GM = flats and medical centre. Warrior = back to traditional pub.

Come on!! ... is all I can say really.

 

[IntoStella]

Harriers - much missed reggae pub. Gun incident outside = authorities pull it down!! A loss. OTT, unfair. Seen the plans. Penthouse appts coming soon.

? - Don't know.

GM and Warrior - all permissions in place. Developer dragging feet. Explanation not clear. Possibly due to a 50 week delay by Lambeth on permisions for Warrior which made it all more difficult. The developer himself tells me that the 12 week delay caused to the GM by me and others wanting something useful (if not a pub) on ground floor of GM is not the reason).

Plan is: GM = flats and medical centre. Warrior = back to traditional pub.

Come on!! ... is all I can say really.

Is it certain that the Warrior will get a licence? I hope so.

 

[Aeryn]

What? None of you want to drink in the Pirate Pub? Why ever not?

I do wonder how viable restaurants around here must be though. Esperanza opposite Camberwell Nandos is the closest real restaurant, and it's deserted every night, despite having nice food, decor, cheap prices, etc.

If you want to meet your neighbours, most of our street seems to go to the Cambria or the Sun and Doves.

 

[Bob]

Anyway, it's a not unimpressive list, but I think the lack of a selection of evening 'A3' destinations, ie pubs and restaurants, leaves a serious hole in the centre of the potential community. It's where you can meet and get to know your wider-field neighbours, find out what's going on in the area, community 'networking' if you see what I mean.
Anyway, that's my opinion.

So true prunus - all of the areas that work badly in Lambeth (and other places I've lived) have been built with no shops, restaurants & pubs at all - which mean that virtually no community life happens on the streets - especially since most estates are designed in such a way that people aren't encouraged to hang out in front of their houses. Vauxhall Gardens (where I lived until recently) is a rare example of a Lambeth estate with any shops at all in it - and they are the hub of the community (though in the last few months they seem to have inherited some dawn of the dead extras themselves). Similarly the only bit of the truly horrible Ethelred in Kennington that has any nice feel to it is the Lambeth walk shops & market.... seems obvious to me that you need shops & pubs for a community...

I'm now thinking it over and can't think of any significantly sized council estate in or near Brixton that has any shops in it (as opposed to just outside it) at all.

 

[Anna Key]

the Sun and Doves.

I've a real soft spot for that pub. I was in Kings Hospital a few years ago and my father sneaked me off the ward to the Sun & Doves in my dressing gown, from right under the nose of terrifying staff nurse who looked just like this:

 

[Aeryn]

The garden's fantastic too.

 

[craigeboy]

what is the "pirate pub ???"

 

[HerneHillBilly]

Hi Prunus
There's another old pub bitten the dust in that burmuda triangle for pubs that is LJ, cant remember what it was called, I think it was the Queen of something, but it once stood near the end of Hinton Rd and is now, you guessed it, luxxury flats (bit pokey if you ask me). and the list doesn't end there.

The Lord Stanley?
that was quite a nice place, pretty good beer, roaring fire..
vanished pretty damn quick

 

[playghirl]

The Lord Stanley?
that was quite a nice place, pretty good beer, roaring fire..
vanished pretty damn quick

I LIved on Hinton Road when it closed. The owner who was pretty cool died. The drinks were cheap...he let us bring our own cds over. We really missed that classic boozer.

 

[fanta]

The garden's fantastic too.

It is a bit expensive though...

 

[hatboy]

Pirate pub = Coast Bar.

 

[THE WARRIOR]

Is it certain that the Warrior will get a licence? I hope so.

There has been some concern that the Police would oppose a licence to premises in an area where in the past they have been revoked - "the Lightning always strikes twice rule - even where the building is left vacant for years/ totally refurbished/rebuilt".

I think there is now recognition that there are decent people living in the arid LJ area, who would appreciate some local facilities and who would not immediately trash them, and that evening venues could help reduce crime (or more importantly the fear of crime). Hopefully concerns over getting a licence are not the reason the developments have not started.

Does anyone know who now own's the mucky duck? - there have been no plans submitted.

 

[prunus]

A bit of poking around on the internet has revealed that The Mucky Duck (formerly The Crown apparently) changed hands on the 17th Dec last year for £360,000.

A planning application has been received on the 4th of this month (June) for:
"Conversion of existing Public House to 6 self contained flats with a commercial unit at ground floor and associated alterations."
Paxton Design Partnership Ltd are the agents for this application.

Is a "commercial unit" shops/offices or does it include pub/bar?

Off for a lie down now to recover from having to use Lambeth's planning website.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

A bit of poking around on the internet has revealed that The Mucky Duck (formerly The Crown apparently) changed hands on the 17th Dec last year for £360,000.

A planning application has been received on the 4th of this month (June) for:
"Conversion of existing Public House to 6 self contained flats with a commercial unit at ground floor and associated alterations."

Oh dear

Is a "commercial unit" shops/offices or does it include pub/bar?

No idea - presumably it's a shop. The area really needs a decent pub.

Off for a lie down now to recover from having to use Lambeth's planning website.

Ha! That's not for the faint hearted. Even with my superfast broadband ADSL/ISDN/FUKN FAST lines here at work, the planning database takes an age to do anything. Sort it out Lambeth!

 

[craigeboy]

Pirate pub = Coast Bar.

its the best pub in the area !!!!

 

[Mrs Magpie]

...it's the only pub in the area.....

 

[craigeboy]

does anybody from here ever go into the coast bar ???

 

[sun man]

Hi there,

It was almost a year ago now that the Warrior/ Junction recieved the approval for it's redevelopment. I posted a thread asking peoples opinions of having a pub there and what sort of a place it should be, partly to ensure that the internal design was appropriate. I should say the response was very positive and with sensible advice.

It then took about 4 months to prepare all the design and structural drawings for both the GM and the Warrior. We then had to achieve building control approval and get the tender packages out to the various contractors to bid a price for doing the build. These were back in February this year, not long before the bank had a bit of a shake up and stopped lending cash for developments like this whilst using the existing buildings as security.

It basically meant that a larger company would have to take on the development and it was within a whisker of going to Auction next month. Due to the vast amount of work already put into these properties it would be a shame to sell out at this stage, it seems now that the finance problem can be overcome and we are in close negotiations with a contractor to start work in early August and complete the development within 54 weeks.

Developments do normally move a lot faster, this one has been quite complicated and drawn out. As Hat Boy rightly points out that the Warrior took a year to recieve a planning approval instead of the allocated 13 weeks, although I should point out that the council were being proactive in reaching a commercially viable project whilst retaining an acceptable appearance.I don't accept that we have been "dragging our feet" .

Both the premises have been granted licenses to trade alcohol until 2008 by the Camberwell Magistrates Court. The Warrior is planned as an air conditioned pub and will be sound insulated so that an entertainment license could be applied for.

I haven't posted any of this information before now as I thought the only thing people would want to know is that whether works are going ahead and when. An answer which I still don't know for sure until the JCT Contract is signed.

The mystery bar was bought by the people who own the land behind it. The building is currently for sale at half a million which is ridiculous. Last I heard an offer was in at 450,000 and the plan is to convert the upper parts, no mention of a pub. I have a feeling that the Harriers will be a style bar on Ground floor.

 

[fanta]

does anybody from here ever go into the coast bar ???

I have done before. Haven't been for a while. Can't say it is my favourite boozer to be honest. Sorry.

 

[Orang Utan]

the Harriers will be a style bar.

What the fuck is a style bar? Doesn't sound promising.

 

[hatboy]

Excellent news Sun Man. As I've said, thankyou for being a developer who gives a shit and good luck with the renovations.

 

[hatboy]

The Harriers is a lost cause as the building has been razed.