max_freakout
Nothing matters
Right there's a philosopher i know almost nothing about, i glanced at Tractatus but couldnt make anything of it.
Im not finished with Sartre yet though
Epistemology
- Thread starter bodach
- Start date
Right there's a philosopher i know almost nothing about, i glanced at Tractatus but couldnt make anything of it.
Im not finished with Sartre yet though
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Heidegger critqued that, saying how we can separate (disassociate) ourselves from the world in order observe it?
Thats where the idea of Dasein, or Being-in-the-world, comes from.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Right there's a philosopher i know almost nothing about, i glanced at Tractatus but couldnt make anything of it.
Im not finished with Sartre yet though
I think maybe wittgenstein could answer at least some of the problems you are facing!
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Tbh, he was right, whatever other fault you can find with Heidegger he's not wrong about that.
If it is knowledge, then the contents of the knowledge (the propostion that is believed) is true, so it can't turn out that it might not be true. But it is not possible to determine from within (so to speak) that this is the case.
The knowledge is by no means purely accidental, but it is contingent on a certain set of events happening (for example, the senses relaying accurate data to the brain, the brain processing correctly, and no 'interference' getting in the way).
An analogy (these always go well in internet discussions): if I shoot a bullet at someone, it is IN SOME VERY LOOSE SENSE an accident if it hits them, since the bullet might have failed to work, a bolt of lightning might have struck and deflected the bullet, the victim might be wearing kevlar under their shirt and so on. But if the bullet does hit them, I wouldn't claim that I didn't intend to shoot them, even while acknoweldging the possibility that once I pulled the trigger it was partly luck/accident that it hit them. Please note: this analogy intended only to clarify the sense of 'accidental', not any other aspect of knowing, epistemology, scepticism or any related discipline. Your statutory rights are not affected. Warranty void outside EU.
max_freakout
Nothing matters
im not facing any problems
knowledge is impossible, this is manifestly obvious
it is the people who deny this who have a 'problem', the problem of justifying epistemology
Wittgenstein makes no difference to that
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
How about you have a read of the tractatus.
And you are still completely misinterpreting Sartre to prove your own points that 'knowledge' is 'impossible'.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Bollocks - "How can we have absolute knowledge" is like asking "how do I know that I'm in pain"?
It doesn't have a definitive answer, because it is a question devoid of a proper function.
But that doesn't mean that "knowledge" as such is impossible - just certain ways of thinking about what might count as knowledge.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Oh and by problems, I meant problems in justifying yourself. Your arguments are paper thin, maybe reading some more philosophers might help you, one way or the other.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
And, of course, if we start with Dasein, or Being-in-the-world, or better, the fact that conscious bodies (such as oneself) exist in the world, then we may, just may, avoid Radical Doubt.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
That is the whole point, and the reason why Max is getting it entirely wrong.
max_freakout
Nothing matters
I am not using anything Sartre said as a premise in my arguments, so it is out of the question that i am misinterpreting him, but i have not misinterpreted him anyway, what he said makes very good sense to me. Please tell me where you think i have misinterpreted him
Knowledge IS impossible! That has got nothing whatsoever to do with Sartre, or Wittgenstein, it is epistemological sceptisism, stated explicitly and unambiguously
max_freakout
Nothing matters
im not getting anything 'wrong', because there is clearly nothing to get wrong
knowledge is impossible, there is no intelligent choice but to admit this, it is self-verifying, you couldnt possibly know
The sceptic wins
max_freakout
Nothing matters
what do you mean by 'start with'?
and by saying 'of course', you are just restating the original problem, how do you know?
max_freakout
Nothing matters
im not making any arguments, as i have said before, reading philosophers wont help
knowledge is impossible, you couldnt possibly disagree with this, unless you are in denial
epistemology has no justification
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
*sigh*
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
You would be an interesting chap if you didn't have such a closed mind.
max_freakout
Nothing matters
As i said earlier, denial of epistemological sceptsism, is willfull ignorance, it is *obviously* true
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
*sighs again*
*goes out*
*goes out*
i-am-your-idea
pretty vacant
i cant believe that there is a whole study of this. 
people trying to scrape together bits of reassurance that they can know something. i guess it shows how much people want this comfort. but its a shame to be clinging to your blanket on such a lovely sunny day!
you dont need to hang onto the belief of definate knowledge. you wont disappear completely without it.
people trying to scrape together bits of reassurance that they can know something. i guess it shows how much people want this comfort. but its a shame to be clinging to your blanket on such a lovely sunny day! you dont need to hang onto the belief of definate knowledge. you wont disappear completely without it.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
Well, one has to start somewhere. I think where I start is not the same as where you start.
So tell me, what's your starting point?
max_freakout
Nothing matters
exactly, Socrates said what needed to be said, wisdom is knowing that i know nothing
epistemology is a thin sheet covering a gaping abyss
you dont need to hang onto the belief of definate knowledge. you wont disappear completely without it.
yes you will
max_freakout
Nothing matters
a 'starting point' is just another way of saying, the deluded and illogical belief that knowledge is actually possible
why are we having this discussion? How could we be having this discussion? What are we talking about if there is no knowledge?
Belief.
i-am-your-idea
pretty vacant
Jonti
what the dormouse said
No, that's your conclusion, something you (ahem) think you know.
What I mean is that Descartes started with "Cogito ergo sum". Heidegger with Dasein. In that sense, where do you start?
Yes there is. There is the word itself, and there is the meaning attributed to it. Those are distinct.
No, says Aldebaran.
I'm not even talking about it. I talk about a very simple thing anyone should know without thinking: Belief is not knowledge and can't be knowledge or there would not be the requirement for belief to exist.
And since knowledge doesn't exist, only the suggestion thereof, belief is all there is.
You killed your argument but you don't want to believe it which leads you to think you know you didn't kill it.
I don't need to know that to see what you did
Example: I had to edit this post 3 times because Dyslex 3 times made me write the word "quote" wrong and 3 times I didn't see it before I entered the submit button.
Q: Is that knowledge of what I did?
A: No.
salaam.
Why? If you don't doubt anything and everything you mind stopped at a certain point, to become self-satisfied
(I think Descartes started with "sum res cogitans", but I'm not sure. I'm not that well read in Western philosophy, only inctroduction courses to it.)
salaam.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
Hang on, humour me here.
I got the clear and distinct impression you do know what you did, and that now I know what you did as well. 'Cos you told me.
I find it basically a semantic quibble. I'm not too fussed about using the term "true beliefs" instead of "knowledge". But why bother? We have the word 'knowledge' for a reason; we know (heh!) what it means, and we know that absolute copper-bottomed certainty isn't part of the meaning.
The world is an uncertain place. What's the big deal?
