enjoying a film without analysing the fuck out of it

[sojourner]

the danger of only doing that unconscious analysis is that yr mind gets stale, and just becomes a sponge to soak up whatever ideology hollywood is pushing. that's why it's sometimes good to dissect stuff, cos when you do you can reveal some dangerous things sometimes.

This is a very good point

Consumption of almost any text requires, at the very least, a little analysis

 

[sojourner]

Going on about for hours when the person you're talking to isn't interested is another matter I guess, but you need to be aware that some people, in combination with some movies, just can't help it

Yep

I find myself rabbiting about some books or films and quickly realise whether I'm going to get a response or not, and if not, I shut up - the confused and scared look in the eye swiftly followed by a visible internal shutting down are always a giveaway

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Pingu's guide to film discussion.

It was brilliant, it's changed the way I view the world.
It was great, I really liked it.
It was good, I liked it.
It was ok, but it went on a bit.
It was boring, it went on for hours.
It was crap, I fell asleep and dribbled down my front.
Film, what film? I only went along for the coffee, popcorn and a snog.

 

[chemn]

Right, so you want people to stop taking an interest in things that dont interest you?

I realise my post came out as bit of a pointless rant I don't mind talking about films occasionally, but my friend is fairly obsessed and stays in watching films most of his time, so I have a biased view on people who talk about films to excess.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I think my thing is, I've just watched a film about, for argument's sake, a cat whos elderly lady owner dies and she eats her and when the neighbour opens the door, the cat jumps on him and takes a big chunk out of his shoulder before being beaten back and running off into the night to have more bloodthirsty adventures. Then eventually a staffie kills the cat to protect his owner's baby before the baby loses its arm. The baby hugs the staffie and at the end we fast forward to the baby 16 years later winning wimbledon and hugging her pop hearthrob boyfriend who turns out to be the grandchild of the old lady. or something.

As far as I'm concerned I watched a jolly little gory film with a lovely hearwarming ending. awwww.

And then someone starts saying something about the staffie scene being a metaphor for the NHS and the decline of chaplins in hospitals and actually teh cat had an Elvis complex, and the parallels with Bergman's Seventh Seal were just clumsy, and I'm frowning cos I missed that completely.

Thank you Papingo for explaining it in a way I couldn't

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Pingu's guide to film discussion.

It was brilliant, it's changed the way I view the world.
It was great, I really liked it.
It was good, I liked it.
It was ok, but it went on a bit.
It was boring, it went on for hours.
It was crap, I fell asleep and dribbled down my front.
Film, what film? I only went along for the coffee, popcorn and a snog.

My kind of man or is Pingu a woman?

 

[Pingu]

Pingu's guide to film discussion.

It was brilliant, it's changed the way I view the world.
It was great, I really liked it.
It was good, I liked it.
It was ok, but it went on a bit.
It was boring, it went on for hours.
It was crap, I fell asleep and dribbled down my front.
Film, what film? I only went along for the coffee, popcorn and a snog.

to be fair that pretty much sums up my head when I leave the cinema...

that and "is frankie and bennies open?"

 

[Louloubelle]

you have a point I guess.

I can actually see people coming out of the forthcoming Simpsons Movie previews and sitting down in their black poloneck sweaters whist sipping an espresso and comparing the spiderpig scene to the bit in the passion of the christ where jebus...sorry jesus gets flogged. Obviously the creators of the simpsons movie are attempting to make a comparison between the suffering of the pig and that of Jesus. However The simpsons movie lacks a certain originality and dare I say realism in making this comparison that sadly renders the whole movie simply untenable. I mean Marges hairstyle is so obviously a statement about her repressed femininity and has a phallic connotation that compares to the scene in boringwankysubtitledforeignfilm where the lead actress suffers for her gender (in black and white) whilst fighting against the male dominated society she is forced to exist in.

spider pig.. spider pig.. does whatever a spider pig can...

Actually, one of the most powerful recurring themes in the Simpsons IMO is the dangerous power of the mob (not the mafia, more a large group of people) and how easy the mob is to manipulate.

One minute the mob hates bears, the next minute they hate illegal immigrants, one minute they want to burn down the burlesque house, the next they love the burlesque house.

I googled for Springfield and "mob justice" just to see if anyone had written anything about this and discovered some interesting American history

"There's no justice like angry-mob justice."
Seymore Skinner

 

[Louloubelle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Saved_Lisa's_Brain

 

[Reno]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Saved_Lisa's_Brain

A classic !

 

[Louloubelle]

A classic !

One of the best!

The great thing about the Simpsons IMO is that you can just enjoy it as something highly entertaining and funny but if you care to look there are multiple layers of meaning underlying the plot.

I have considered using various Simpsons episodes to teach psychodynamic principles and you could definitely use the Simpsons as a fun and entertaining way to explore issues relating to group dynamics.

If people don't want to think about these things it's fine by me, what I don't understand is why some people feel the need to attack any in depth analysis of The Simpsons or any other programme of film.

OK, actually I do understand it and I think that the Simpsons episode I linked to goes some way in explaining it.

 

[Mallard]

I watched 'Doom' the other day and enjoyed it. Not sure about the subtext though

 

[quimcunx]

Many films don't lend themselves to indepth analysis and nobody is analysing them, so what are you actually on about ? Where are these fabled deconstructions of Pirates of the Carribean ? If you complain about something at least give us an example of what you are so opposed to. Papingo above has to resort to not only a made up film but also a made up deconstruction to make his point, so the two of you haven't got much of a case here that everything gets overanalysed. A small handfull of popular films do get debated and analysed and rightly so, but most don't.

I is a gurl.

For a real example, Animal Farm and Russian/communism stuff. It may be true but as I've never studied Russian/communism stuff telling me that Animal Farm is a parrallel of it is of little interest to me.

Of course people are welcome to deconstruct films, but when they do i haven't a clue what they're on about and I don't care, and it doesn't enhance my enjoyment of the film. I reminds me of To Kill A Mockingbird at school. A book I possibly would have enjoyed had the teacher not spent every lesson shouting SYMBOLISM without ever explaining what she was on about. Put me off trying to analyse things. You go ahead though, I'll just go sit on that other table in the corner.

I do rather feel I've missed out by not choosing to go to uni and learn literary analysis type stuffy. Maybe we're just jealous. Or maybe I'd rather keep fiction fiction and facts in factual films/books.

 

[sojourner]

I Or maybe I'd rather keep fiction fiction and facts in factual films/books.

But an awful lot of fiction has been specifically written as subversive text - look at Master and Margherita by Mikhail Bulgakov - it's BRIMMING with satire against the Stalinist regime

Not all fiction is used as a tool of subversion of course, but you can never ever say fiction is just fiction

 

[quimcunx]

But an awful lot of fiction has been specifically written as subversive text - look at Master and Margherita by Mikhail Bulgakov - it's BRIMMING with satire against the Stalinist regime

Not all fiction is used as a tool of subversion of course, but you can never ever say fiction is just fiction

But I can just watch it as fiction!

Perhaps this would be a good time to say I haven't been to the cinema for yonks and I never ever watch DVDs at home.

And I don't know if you're deliberately obtuse but how much do you think I've studied the Stalinist regime, let alone watched anything by Mikhail Bulgakov.

 

[rutabowa]

I do rather feel I've missed out by not choosing to go to uni and learn literary analysis type stuffy. Maybe we're just jealous. Or maybe I'd rather keep fiction fiction and facts in factual films/books.

i think maybe you've just heard some pretentious people who probably didn't even know what they were on about, using long words to impress each other! there isn't some secret code that you learn at university (though some people woudl like you to think that), there is no wrong or right, your opinion is absolutely as valid as anyone elses. when someone just says eg "Animal Farm is an allegory for communism", that's just someone wh's learned a fact repeating it, it's not clever at all.... so don't be impressed or intimidated by it!

 

[sojourner]

And I don't know if you're deliberately obtuse but how much do you think I've studied the Stalinist regime, let alone watched anything by Mikhail Bulgakov.

You don't know anything at all about Stalin or what he did?

It's a book, sorry, should have kept on topic, but as I've been talking about books as well I didn't think to mention that

 

[quimcunx]

But I do notice that my uni-educated friends do seem to have some tools for critical thinking etc that I'd quite like to have.

I will always feel a little sad that I didn't give myself a few years at university, just learning stuff.

 

[rutabowa]

But I do notice that my uni-educated friends do seem to have some tools for critical thinking etc that I'd quite like to have.

well maybe, they might have learnt certain buzz-words, but equally the way they think might have been shaped in a certain way so maybe you will be more original, who knows.

 

[quimcunx]

You don't know anything at all about Stalin or what he did?

It's a book, sorry, should have kept on topic, but as I've been talking about books as well I didn't think to mention that

He was Russian, he ruled russia, lots of people died because of him. he was a stalinist, um.

I've never read a book about him, seen a film about him, watched any film or read any book (that I remember) set in his era in Russia. I've never watched a documentary about him. I've never gone to a lecture about him. I've never sat in a discussion where people have spoken about him in depth. So all I know are passing references. I know just as little about Marx and Trotsky. I might be able to tell you a little bit more about Beckham but only cos he's harder to avoid.

I should probably be thrown off urban!

 

[quimcunx]

well maybe, they might have learnt certain buzz-words, but equally the way they think might have been shaped in a certain way so maybe you will be more original, who knows.

That is true. I'm perfectly good at seeing through the crap or seeing different interpretations of things that they possibly wouldn't pick up on, what I did learn myself to do. I'm not at all intimidated by their intelligence. I'm not insecure about my intelligence. Just that uni seems to be a time that people learnt and exchanged information in an environment that you don't encounter outside uni, so much. And I'll never do that now.

 

[Reno]

I is a gurl. .

Oops, sorry

For a real example, Animal Farm and Russian/communism stuff. It may be true but as I've never studied Russian/communism stuff telling me that Animal Farm is a parrallel of it is of little interest to me.

Of course people are welcome to deconstruct films, but when they do i haven't a clue what they're on about and I don't care, and it doesn't enhance my enjoyment of the film. I reminds me of To Kill A Mockingbird at school. A book I possibly would have enjoyed had the teacher not spent every lesson shouting SYMBOLISM without ever explaining what she was on about. Put me off trying to analyse things. You go ahead though, I'll just go sit on that other table in the corner.

I do rather feel I've missed out by not choosing to go to uni and learn literary analysis type stuffy. Maybe we're just jealous. Or maybe I'd rather keep fiction fiction and facts in factual films/books.

I suppose when you feel really passionate about something then it eventually becomes boring to engage with it on a merely superficial level. Not everybody has the same priorities in life and if you just watch the occasional film on a Saturday night and don't know or aren't interested in the the terminology of film theory that doesn't mean anybody thinks you are stupid. On the other hand there also is no reason to get defensive about it and there is no reason to put down people whose interests or degree of engagement with a particular subject is different from yours. I'm sure there is stuff you know about that I don't know shit about becuase it doesn't interest me either. Everybody has different priorities in life. It's a shame if bad teaching has closed your mind to the miriad of possibilities that fiction offers, but there is no reason why you can't snap out of that frame of mind.

 

[sojourner]

well maybe, they might have learnt certain buzz-words, but equally the way they think might have been shaped in a certain way so maybe you will be more original, who knows.

The 'buzzwords' are learned yes, but most people who have taken a literature course were already deconstructing way before they got to uni. The terminology is something you pick up and use as shorthand whilst there - so not having gone to uni shouldn't be something that puts anyone off talking about books or films

 

[sojourner]

That is true. I'm perfectly good at seeing through the crap or seeing different interpretations of things that they possibly wouldn't pick up on, what I did learn myself to do. I'm not at all intimidated by their intelligence. I'm not insecure about my intelligence. Just that uni seems to be a time that people learnt and exchanged information in an environment that you don't encounter outside uni, so much. And I'll never do that now.

There you go - proved the point I just made

I did feel completely isolated actually until I went into higher education in my late 20s. It was only then that I met people who wanted to talk about the stuff I was interested in. Up until that point, I'd been made to feel like a complete misfit, and no one ever engaged with me


Course now I can go online and witter to my hearts content - and urban is a great place for that, it really is, lots of differing viewpoints on films and books, and music

 

[sojourner]

He was Russian, he ruled russia, lots of people died because of him. he was a stalinist, um.

I've never read a book about him, seen a film about him, watched any film or read any book (that I remember) set in his era in Russia. I've never watched a documentary about him. I've never gone to a lecture about him. I've never sat in a discussion where people have spoken about him in depth. So all I know are passing references. I know just as little about Marx and Trotsky. I might be able to tell you a little bit more about Beckham but only cos he's harder to avoid.

I should probably be thrown off urban!

I didn't know much about him either - but the thing about him killing lots of people made me want to learn about him. So I looked it up, and then later I read M&M, and all sorts of fireworks went off in me head - this is what I love about analysis

 

[George & Bill]

The fact that all the examples given of films that are 'just entertainment' turn out, on afterthought, to be very bad examples, tells us a lot.

It is common knowledge that The Simpsons constantly tries to be clever, with incessant cultural, philosophic, and historical references. The fact that it can operate at these levels, at the same time as operating at the level of toilet humour, and others besides, accounts for the breadth of its popularity.

The Magic Roundabout, far from being 'just a story', is an emblem of its time – you don't have to be an intellectual type to notice the apparent influence of a different ... recreational substance ... on each of the characters – and of course on the general scenario.

POTC is too far-gone a dog's breakfast of a film to have any intentional subtext imo, and the lack of enjoyment I got from it as a straightforward piece of cinema made me enjoy picking it apart all the more. The fact that Johnny Depp's character seems to operate in a complete vacuum (and the fact that it is the same utterly self-indulged character portrayed in the remake of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory), oblivious to what is going on around him or what his colleagues are doing, says a lot about the shifting relationship between big-name actors and no-name directors in Hollywood.

On the subject of pirates, let's not even get started on Captain Pugwash...

 

[mentalchik]

Well i watched Ghost Rider last night and enjoyed it as a piece of entertaining bunkum !


thats all !

 

[Termite Man]

Well i watched Ghost Rider last night and enjoyed it as a piece of entertaining bunkum !


thats all !

I'm amazed you even enjoyed it as that . To put it into perspective last night I watched The Phantom starring Billy Zane and I thjought that was better than Ghost Rider !

 

[mentalchik]

The only thing was i couldn't take my eyes from Nicholas Cage's wig...........


I don't know the comic strip so can't comment on that !



I much preferred Constantine !

 

[Termite Man]

The only thing was i couldn't take my eyes from Nicholas Cage's wig...........


I don't know the comic strip so can't comment on that !



I much preferred Constantine !

At least the wig was better at acting that Nick Cage was