Egypt anti-government protests grow
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teqniq
DisMembered
elbows
Well-Known Member
And now a bunch of prisoners (from yesterdays mosque incident apparently) killed while being transported:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013818175824286257.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013818175824286257.html
elbows
Well-Known Member
I see plenty of Arab governments are backing the Egyptian authorities, with some variety in how much they join in with the war on terror bullshit and whether they bother to call for restraint and dialogue. Not surprising that Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been on the venomous massacre cheerleading side of things.
I haven't come across a full translation of el-Sisi's televised speech from today yet, but this extract is full of references to honour and honesty.
I haven't come across a full translation of el-Sisi's televised speech from today yet, but this extract is full of references to honour and honesty.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Variations on the police van deaths.
Another version is that the asphyxiation was due to tear gas fired into the van.
From http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/18/us-egypt-protests-idUSBRE97C09A20130818
Another version is that the asphyxiation was due to tear gas fired into the van.
America has done virtually nothing in support of AQ in Syria except words against Assad. It is because AQ has become so prominent in the civil war that the US hasn't poured in aid to the rebs. Saudi & some European countries provide a trickle but it's pretty insignificant. The US also isn't supporting the MB. It's made bland statements for restraint & democracy......walking a fine line & not knowing quite what to do.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Mubarak to be freed says lawyer. Meet the new military dictator. It is the old military dictator.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/19/uk-egypt-protests-idUKBRE97514U20130819
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/19/uk-egypt-protests-idUKBRE97514U20130819
framed
Leave it!
"So let it be with Caesar ... The noble Brutus Hath told you Caesar was ambitious: If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it ... Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest, (For Brutus is an honourable man; So are they all; all honourable men) Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral ... He was my friend, faithful and just to me: But Brutus says he was ambitious; And Brutus is an honourable man."
Worth a read in its entirity,
http://muftah.org/state-authoritarianism-in-egypt-the-military-al-azhar-coptic-church-triad/
Slowly but surely the popular movements and reformist minded individuals are being whittled away from Al-Sisi's coalition. Al Nour went after the first wave of bloodletting, Baradi after the third,until soon all that will be left is the Army,Al-Azhar Clerics and the Higher echelon of the Coptic church.Mindful of the terrible vengeance the brotherhood has wreaked upon them in their ousting and fearful of their return to power.The church will see its future if not its entire existence tied closely to that of the Generals as it has since 52.
What there is a real likelihood of happening is the reassertion of the Tripartite agreement will be presented as a victory for Secularisation whilst genuine reformist voices both muslim and christian will be effectively marginalised.
http://muftah.org/state-authoritarianism-in-egypt-the-military-al-azhar-coptic-church-triad/
Slowly but surely the popular movements and reformist minded individuals are being whittled away from Al-Sisi's coalition. Al Nour went after the first wave of bloodletting, Baradi after the third,until soon all that will be left is the Army,Al-Azhar Clerics and the Higher echelon of the Coptic church.Mindful of the terrible vengeance the brotherhood has wreaked upon them in their ousting and fearful of their return to power.The church will see its future if not its entire existence tied closely to that of the Generals as it has since 52.
What there is a real likelihood of happening is the reassertion of the Tripartite agreement will be presented as a victory for Secularisation whilst genuine reformist voices both muslim and christian will be effectively marginalised.
elbows
Well-Known Member
ElBaradei has apparently been nicked now, for resigning from the government.
Sort of, anyone can file a criminal complaint in Egypt and since this is a misdemeanour charge it proceeds straight to sort rather than a judge first deciding whether to allow it to proceed.
And anyway it seems ElBaradei ran back to Vienna (where he normally resides when not pursuing political power in Egypt) after he resigned.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/201382013218872674.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/remnant...in-egypts-coptic-churches-20130820-2s7x7.html
“So from the Islamist standpoint, when you blame the military and in particular General Abdel Fateh al-Sisi for the overthrow of Mursi and everything else that has ensued ... the Copts are an easy adversary when the military is too powerful to confront.”
Also, Iskander says, Copts are relatively unprotected in Egypt.
“It is both a blessing and a curse – they live in every province and governorate, every community has Copts, they are in every area and they are part of a wide cross-section of Egyptian society but this means it is often very difficult to protect them from this kind of violence.”
Add to that, Christians have literally been written out of the public school curriculum, effectively extricating them from modern Egyptian identity and rendering their religion an unknown quantity for many Muslims, he says.
“Most Muslims know Copts who are their neighbours or their co-workers but they know very little about their religion, their rituals,” says Iskander, who has written a just-released book, Egypt in Flux: Essays on an Unfinished Revolution.
Mubarak convinced the Coptic community that the only way to exist safely in Egypt was have the protection of “secular” state, and “with that came authoritarianism”.
Deepening the isolation of many Coptic Egyptians was the stance of the former Pope Shenouda, who died in March last year, he says.
The pope monopolised every aspect of Coptic life, from politics to social services and leisure activities, corralling many believers within the strict confines of the church.
The end result, he says, is that Copts are “drastically and remarkably under-represented in political life and in almost every public vocation – arts, music, sports – they are practically invisible.”
A critical juncture in the political awakening of the Coptic community came in October 2011 with the incident that is now known as the Maspero Massacre.
Twenty-five people died and more than 320 were injured when a Coptic protest against the failure of the government to investigate an attack on a church was overrun.
Egyptian soldiers drove armoured personnel carriers into the crowds of protesters, dragging some under the wheels in scenes of terrible carnage.
To many it was the first time the military, traditionally seen as the protector of the Coptic community, had deserted them.
“It put the church in a very awkward position where they either had to come out and condemn the most powerful institution in Egypt – the military – or sit in silence,” Iskander says.
“The anger of the community could not be contained ... the Coptic masses were moving and the church was barely keeping up.”
The new leader, Pope Tawadros, is younger and more perceptive than his predecessor, Iskander says, in a comment echoed by many interviewed by Fairfax Media for this article.
Even though Pope Tawadros, along with Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, the Grand Imam of Al Azhar, the most important Islamic institution in Egypt, publicly supported Sisi in his removal of Mursi from the presidency, he has in general taken a step back politically, he says.
“Practically every institution has had a head-on collision with the Brotherhood,” says Iskander, and in this case, Christians have paid dearly.
Also, Iskander says, Copts are relatively unprotected in Egypt.
“It is both a blessing and a curse – they live in every province and governorate, every community has Copts, they are in every area and they are part of a wide cross-section of Egyptian society but this means it is often very difficult to protect them from this kind of violence.”
Add to that, Christians have literally been written out of the public school curriculum, effectively extricating them from modern Egyptian identity and rendering their religion an unknown quantity for many Muslims, he says.
“Most Muslims know Copts who are their neighbours or their co-workers but they know very little about their religion, their rituals,” says Iskander, who has written a just-released book, Egypt in Flux: Essays on an Unfinished Revolution.
Mubarak convinced the Coptic community that the only way to exist safely in Egypt was have the protection of “secular” state, and “with that came authoritarianism”.
Deepening the isolation of many Coptic Egyptians was the stance of the former Pope Shenouda, who died in March last year, he says.
The pope monopolised every aspect of Coptic life, from politics to social services and leisure activities, corralling many believers within the strict confines of the church.
The end result, he says, is that Copts are “drastically and remarkably under-represented in political life and in almost every public vocation – arts, music, sports – they are practically invisible.”
A critical juncture in the political awakening of the Coptic community came in October 2011 with the incident that is now known as the Maspero Massacre.
Twenty-five people died and more than 320 were injured when a Coptic protest against the failure of the government to investigate an attack on a church was overrun.
Egyptian soldiers drove armoured personnel carriers into the crowds of protesters, dragging some under the wheels in scenes of terrible carnage.
To many it was the first time the military, traditionally seen as the protector of the Coptic community, had deserted them.
“It put the church in a very awkward position where they either had to come out and condemn the most powerful institution in Egypt – the military – or sit in silence,” Iskander says.
“The anger of the community could not be contained ... the Coptic masses were moving and the church was barely keeping up.”
The new leader, Pope Tawadros, is younger and more perceptive than his predecessor, Iskander says, in a comment echoed by many interviewed by Fairfax Media for this article.
Even though Pope Tawadros, along with Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, the Grand Imam of Al Azhar, the most important Islamic institution in Egypt, publicly supported Sisi in his removal of Mursi from the presidency, he has in general taken a step back politically, he says.
“Practically every institution has had a head-on collision with the Brotherhood,” says Iskander, and in this case, Christians have paid dearly.
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/presidency-denounces-erdogan-s-remarks
Turkey breaks rank with America
Turkey breaks rank with America
elbows
Well-Known Member
Turkey has been outspoken about the coup since the start, but that in itself didn't upset the US all that much, at least not enough to say anything about it publicly. However since Erdogan today decided to blame Israel, the US have spoken out.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/20/us-turkey-egypt-israel-usa-idUSBRE97J0S820130820
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/20/us-turkey-egypt-israel-usa-idUSBRE97J0S820130820
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
[Can i apologise for my posts to FNG and teqniq the other day - they didn't come out of malice but fast moving frustration. I'm sorry.]
elbows
Well-Known Member
It's also worth pointing out that US frustration with Egypt has been shown more publicly of late. Both official statements from the likes of John Kerry and 'insider scoops' given to the press after the last round of violence, which are critical of the Egyptian government and military. As they continue to arrest top MB leaders the US has more reasons to maintain the criticism.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-21/us-criticises-arrest-of-brotherhood-leader-in-egypt/4901034
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-21/us-criticises-arrest-of-brotherhood-leader-in-egypt/4901034
No problems mate. Under normal circumstances Id of relished the opportunity to lock horns with you because I always know im going to have to up my game considerably.
teqniq
DisMembered
No problems with me either.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There was an attempt, visible in some english chatter on twitter a few days ago, to start a campaign of people making noise at 9pm every night to demonstrate their rejection of both the MB, the coup and what has happened since. I've heard no more about it and have few reasons to seriously anticipate that it gains traction, but I thought I would mention it anyway. Hashtag for the campaign is #masmou3
I note that when presented with the theoretical prospect of US withdrawing military aid, PM Beblawi made a comment about surviving that could also be interpreted as a threat in the context of the great geopolitical game. Not that one is probably needed since the US will be acutely aware of their interests in keeping close to Egypt, and others like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are more than willing to further open their wallets.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-PM-Hazem-el-Beblawi/articleshow/21947523.cms
In trying to ease international tensions he did use some slightly conciliatory language about the MB, but I note that he took the already silly claims about the number of people who protested against Morsi to an even sillier level:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/egyptian-prime-minister-fear-civil-war/story?id=20012782
Also in that article is a reference to Mubarak being released and historical loyalties:
I note that when presented with the theoretical prospect of US withdrawing military aid, PM Beblawi made a comment about surviving that could also be interpreted as a threat in the context of the great geopolitical game. Not that one is probably needed since the US will be acutely aware of their interests in keeping close to Egypt, and others like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are more than willing to further open their wallets.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-PM-Hazem-el-Beblawi/articleshow/21947523.cms
In trying to ease international tensions he did use some slightly conciliatory language about the MB, but I note that he took the already silly claims about the number of people who protested against Morsi to an even sillier level:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/egyptian-prime-minister-fear-civil-war/story?id=20012782
Also in that article is a reference to Mubarak being released and historical loyalties:
Re eygpt entering the russian sphere
Its an interesting bit of brinkmanship given a lot of the officer class blame inferior soviet equipment on their defeat in the six day war. Under such circumstances I doubt the junta could rely on the loyalty of their subordinates and a counter coup might occur.
Its an interesting bit of brinkmanship given a lot of the officer class blame inferior soviet equipment on their defeat in the six day war. Under such circumstances I doubt the junta could rely on the loyalty of their subordinates and a counter coup might occur.
elbows
Well-Known Member
This Guardian piece isn't a bad reflection on the horrible nature of recent weeks. All the better for the author having been there and having become caught up in it himself at the mosque standoff the other day.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/egypts-cruellest-week-muslim-brotherhood
Since I have a thing about Tamarods public statements, I may as well quote this bit in particular:
I've ranted about Mohamed 'The General' Khamis before. I hope he gets his one day, his murderous bullshit tongue is beneath contempt.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/egypts-cruellest-week-muslim-brotherhood
Since I have a thing about Tamarods public statements, I may as well quote this bit in particular:
I've ranted about Mohamed 'The General' Khamis before. I hope he gets his one day, his murderous bullshit tongue is beneath contempt.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I wish I could find out more about the background of Mohamed Khamis, beyond what I've posted on this thread in recent weeks.
There was one entry from his Observer 'diary of the week Morsi fell' thing that gave a bit of a clue:
From http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/egypt-army-took-orders-from-us
There was one entry from his Observer 'diary of the week Morsi fell' thing that gave a bit of a clue:
From http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/egypt-army-took-orders-from-us
indeed. If they wanted to apply actual leverage they would suspend helicoptor replacement and spares.the f18s are a massive white elephant in the ongoing situation.
not that unsurprising really given most Egyptians have some sort of military background. Interesting use of the word studied rather than graduated though.he comes across as the George Zimmerman of Egyptian politics
someone upthread mentioned the military going after the strikers next, was overshadowed by the events of last week but they began arresting the leaders of the striking steelworkers union just prior to last fridays masacre.
http://menasolidaritynetwork.com/20...idarity-after-steel-workers-arrested-by-army/
http://www.tlaxcala-int.org/article.asp?reference=10346
Nearly a month and a half has passed since the fall of Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood from power, thanks to the action of the masses who did not feel any difference between the policies of the Brotherhood and those of Mubarak. Both opposed the masses and their demands for bread, freedom and social justice. Despite the downfall of Mubarak, Tantawi and Morsi in successive revolutionary waves beginning on 25 January and finishing on 30 June, Minister of Defence General Abd-al-Fattah al-Sisi, President Adli Mansour and Prime Minister Hazem Beblawi have not learnt their lesson. Instead, they divert the masses and make the “war on terrorism” a pretext for dropping demands for social justice during the transitional period.
Striking workers have been in the front ranks of the struggle by the masses since the strike in Mahalla in 2006. It was they who threw down Mubarak, and after him Tantawi and Morsi who saw during his period in office the largest proportion of workers’ strikes to demand their rights. Yet the new government of Mansour and Beblawi is dealing with strikers with the same repressive policies, and today arrested two of the leaders of the Suez Steel workers’ strike (Amr Yusif and Abd-al-Ra’uf, with the knowledge of the police, while the armed forces surrounded the factory.
http://menasolidaritynetwork.com/20...idarity-after-steel-workers-arrested-by-army/
http://www.tlaxcala-int.org/article.asp?reference=10346
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Hopefully this is useful to some posters. An information dossier, in five parts:
Reading guide to the July 3, 2013 military coup in Egypt
And debate around the RS position(s) here.
Reading guide to the July 3, 2013 military coup in Egypt
And debate around the RS position(s) here.
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