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Egypt anti-government protests grow

This site generally covers the larger disputes in the strike report sections, but has been concentrating on other stuff recently. All fairly standard though.
Labourstart still going. Problem is the disputes amongst the tops taking the headlines. I'm sure i have more in my bookmarks, will check later.
Thanks for that. In my depressingly schematic and historicist view of the events in Egypt I wonder whether we're going to see a two-stage revolution, at least in Cairo, like in Petrograd 1917. This would then be the July Days, or something similar. But those later waves of revolution were because the peasants were taking the land, the workers were taking the factories. I wonder if anything at all comparable is happening now.

--
NOV 18
CAIRO — Egyptian army troops fought a four-hour gun battle with protesters in southern Cairo on Sunday, sparked by a dispute over land on an island of the Nile, security officials said. Three protesters were killed.

The officials said the disputed plot of land on Qursayah island is owned by the armed forces but was illegally seized by residents taking advantage of the chaos that followed last year’s ouster of authoritarian President Hosni Mubarak.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b09b16-316e-11e2-92f0-496af208bf23_story.html
 
Its really hard to try to rate his abilities given that we are not privy to a lot of real details about what has gone on with things like the armed forces and other powerful groups within Egyptian society. There does seem to be a fair amount of the old regime guard left in place, including within the judiciary, and the presidential election didnt really give him a very strong mandate.

I believe dylans was pretty consistent in long having drawn attention to the fact that the MB were quite used to playing an albeit slightly ambiguous role within the elites of Egypt, they were part of the old game and had plenty to lose from a more comprehensive revolution. A picture is drawn in the press that Morsi skilfully outmanoeuvred the older generation of army top brass, but we dont know what actually went down there and one possibility is that the MB teamed up with a newer army faction, and we dont really know who else has influence on what shots are called now as a result of that.

I've no idea how this will all pan out but the latest mistake doesnt interest me quite as much as some of the previous ones which made the current situation somewhat unavoidable as far as Im concerned. I'm talking about the failure of the revolution to sweep away more of the old guard & institutions at the time, the failure to reform the security service, the failure to come up with a new constitution before the presidential elections, and allowing the final round of the presidential election to involve someone strongly associated with the old regime. The reasons why this happened are strongly tied in to what I said in the last paragraph. I still strggle somewhat to call what happened in Egypt a revolution, I'm tempted to still call it an uprising, albeit one that did have some big implications and has unlocked god knows what potential for future struggles.

Even if some of this stuff gets sorted out then I find it hard to be too optimistic, simply because Egypts options are narrowed like so many other countries are, by the state of the world as a whole, the dominant powers, and the current ideologies and economic games in place. Even without the mistakes and inherent downsides of the MB, it seems likely that Egypt is one of the countries that will remain on the frontline of this stuff because of the state of their economy, the IMF & Eu loans, the 'need' to devaluate their currency and cut fuel subsidies etc.
 
The protests today sound rather large, and not just at Tahrir square either but also outside the presidential palace.
 
@Sandmonkey
Massive protests at presidentail palace, tahrir, asuit, daqahliya, Minya, maspiro, alex, 6th of october, protsaid, suez, mahalla, luxor tbc
@Sandmonkey
Also, protests in damanhour, hurghada, and sharm. Muhahahahahaha...

Sarahngb @Sarahngb
The last time I saw such numbers around the Palace was the day Mubarak stepped down cc: @sandmonkey
53m
السيد مانكي@Sandmonkey
@Sarahngb this is far more. Holy shit it's more.
 
I think it's rater more people than the police were prepared for:

Gsquare86: CSF shields were taken from them by some protesters, the police ran away! it was amazing #Dec4 #Palace #Egypt http://flic.kr/p/dyBC1w

8245359142_eca430c0a8.jpg


Gsquare86: Unfired CS tear gas canister taken from the police at the #Palace #Dec4 http://flic.kr/p/dywgfD

8244313757_1ab9f53df8.jpg
 
Vid of the protest in Cairo last night:



Amazing vid of protestors remonstrating with cops who the join the march:

 
This all started earlier when MB supporters cleared tents from outside the Presidential palace. Clashes ongoing, unconfirmed reports of deaths.

LIVE UPDATES: Violent clashes explode between pro and anti Morsi forces
2 dead. Looks like the fighting is increasing and there are reports of firearms being used. Morsi guys stormed into the sit in outside the palace and tore it up. It was only a matter of time before the MB made a move. They do have a mass base it should be remembered and they have thus far declined to mobilise it. Looks like this is changing.
A9XhBenCIAArj2A.jpg:large

A9X9b6NCQAEEYLB.jpg:large


Also, reports of "very violent" clashes in Suez and Mahalla
 
It was only a matter of time before the MB made a move. They do have a mass base it should be remembered and they have thus far declined to mobilise it. Looks like this is changing.

Previously they showed a lot more restraint than some commentators were expecting, even when some of their headquarters were burnt. Its not clear to me right now if the top MB leadership decided to change that now or whether things have gone a bit out of control at a lower level. If it was a top level decision then it may have been very stupid indeed, although its a bit early for me to say that with any certainty.

Some MB spokespeople/figures seem to be blaming ElBaradei, Sabahi etc, and doing a new twist on the 'they are in league with old regime forces' shit.

It sounds like numerous Morsi advisors have resigned tonight but better wait for more detail on that one, same with the deaths.
 
Al Jazeera reports that Egypt’s Ambulance Authority has reiterated its earlier statement that no deaths have been reported thus far, although the injury toll has risen to 126.http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/59852.aspx
Good to hear. There is a lot of confusion verging on panic coming out of Tahrir. Lots of posts claiming MB militia squads are about to attack etc followed by lots of appeals for people to stop panicking and prepare defences. Sounds like its going to be a long night.

MB supporter firing what looks like a shotgun
18808_474283955943313_1169696491_n.jpg
 
Further to my previous post, I suppose I can use the words of the official MB english twitter feed to look at their official stance.

Here are examples of the 'blame ElBaradei etc' stuff:
@Ikhwanweb
We hold opposition figures, namely Sabbahi & ElBaradei, fully responsible for escalation of violence & inciting their supporters

@Ikhwanweb
Mubarak regime loyalists & remnants r arming thugs to attack protestors, spread violence & chaos, Egyptian ppl won't allow this to happen

Whether or not they planned their sides violence, at the very least they called for a 'million man march' to the palace today, unlike the previous time where they cancelled a demo that would have clashed with the anti-Morsi protesters.
@Ikhwanweb
Muslim Brotherhood & Islamist parties call for Million-Man March today afternoon outside Itehadyya palace in supprt of the elected president
 
Isnt ElBaradei a western backed neo liberalist type?

Yeah, I've never been sure that characterisation of him is 100% fair but I suppose it will do as shorthand. He rubbed the US the wrong way from time to time when he was IAEA chief, but I wouldnt want to stretch that point too far.

Sabahi meanwhile is a neo-nasserist who did really quite well in the first round of the presidential election, including in Cairo itself.

There is also Amr Moussa who was a diplomat, minister of foreign affairs and head of the Arab League.

These three and some other groups didnt do a very good job of becoming united as the anti-SCAF, anti-Mubarak, anti-Muslin Brotherhood, secular face of the opposition during previous stages of uprising and revolution, but I believe they've come together a bit more effectively recently.
 
How big is the revolutionary socialist movement in Egypt then? It sounds a bit diluted with these 'leaders' seemingly taking charge of a once vibrant mass movement for proper change.
 
How big is the revolutionary socialist movement in Egypt then? It sounds a bit diluted with these 'leaders' seemingly taking charge of a once vibrant mass movement for proper change.

I dont think its ever been possible to say how large the revolutionary socialist element was. There was a lot of diversity in the original anti-Mubarak protests, plenty of liberals, younger Muslim Brotherhood types, football ultras and others involved. And no shortage of would-be figureheads since the early days, with few of them showing signs of being really popular with the people on the streets. ElBaradei is a lousy public speaker at rallies etc, and spent much of the time not even living in Egypt.

The presidential and parliamentary elections didnt show many signs of either liberal or revolutionary socialists having really strong support with the voting public. But the presence of former regime people standing for election, the shit media, and the abundance of candidates complicated the picture somewhat, especially in the presidential election where it came down to MB vs a former regime man in the second round.

At the presidential polls it looked like Sabahi was the most interesting choice for those not keen on the other 2 choices I just mentioned, and had the most interesting levels of support. But it would be foolish of me to attempt to paint him as some kind of revolutionary socialist, although its impossible for me to judge what true potential there was with him. From the few things I read about him that were translated into English, it sounded like there was some socialism in his ideology, but watered down by the global neoliberal realities of this era and saddled with the nationalist aspects of nasserism.

So for many the best guide & hopes for revolutionary socialism in Egypt were expressed through the staggering quantities of strike action that took place, though western media seldom paid any attention to those (surprise surprise) and its been harder to judge their scale in the post-Mubarak phases.
 
Thanks for that. In my depressingly schematic and historicist view of the events in Egypt I wonder whether we're going to see a two-stage revolution, at least in Cairo, like in Petrograd 1917. This would then be the July Days, or something similar. But those later waves of revolution were because the peasants were taking the land, the workers were taking the factories. I wonder if anything at all comparable is happening now.

-

no we arent, for reasons youve already outlined yourself.
 
Tanks on the streets and apparently the army has given everyone till 1PM GMT to leave the area, and has begun clearing people from the area apparently.

Not terribly surprising, I'm more surprised that the BBC has decided to spell the presidents name as Morsi rather than Mursi now.
 
I've not been able to keep up with all events today but here is something:


State television head Essam al-Amir submitted his resignation to Information Minister Salah Abdel Maqsoud on Thursday to protest “the way the country has been run since [the president] issued the recent constitutional declaration.”
Amir said in a press statement that the 22 November constitutional declaration, in which President Mohamed Morsy granted himself immunity from judicial review among other powers, divided the country.
Privately-owned Al-Shorouk newspaper quoted Amir as saying that he could no longer work under the current circumstances or take part in the events in any way, so he decided to resign.

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/state-tv-head-resigns-objection-way-country-run
 
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