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Egypt anti-government protests grow

Reports, not confirmed, of "massive crowds" gathering in Ismailiya, Tanta, Assiut and Suez. Clashes outside state security HQ in Alexandria.
 
Yeah, there were crowds in Alex & Suez last nigth too.

This video, after about a minute and a half, shows a variety of police shooting from last night, and some incredible bravery by those being shot at.

 
elbows, in trying to share these videos on facebook, it's become obvious that facebook, or maybe YouTube, Egyptian authorities, are blocking, all these videos you're posting here from being shared and more than likely many others of a similar nature?
 
Don't know what you mean. The Egyptian authorities can only block stuff in their own country, they don't have influence over what you are trying to share on Facebook.
 
Police clearing, or trying to, first thing this morning. Obv fearful of people coming during day. Popular reaction this week may decide fate of entire revolution. Are there splits in the parties elites etc.
 
From the AlJazeera live blog:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Egypt

On his Facebook account, the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohamed el-Beltagi said that youth in Tahrir Square had expressed their anger at the Brotherhood for not joining them in the recently resurgent protests against military rule in Egypt.
Beltagi said that the youth have a right to be angry and that the Brotherhood should review their position on the protests that have once again gripped Tahrir Square.
Beltagi is considered to be an active star on the rise within the Muslim Brotherhood.
Click to expand...
 
elbows said:
Yeah, there were crowds in Alex & Suez last nigth too.

This video, after about a minute and a half, shows a variety of police shooting from last night, and some incredible bravery by those being shot at.

Click to expand...


I don't want to do the fella down too much but just after being shot, you stand up and re present yourself as a target?
 
I don think the regime learnt a bloody thing from the events of Jan & Feb.

Meanwhile William Hague says we won't take sides. No surprise, we know which side our government is on.
 
Guardian summary seems to have plenty of interesting bulletpoints.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/nov/21/egypt-return-to-tahrir-live-updates

Here are a few that caught my eye in particular:

Chants have called for the trial or execution of Scaf head Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi.
• The Revolutionary Youth Movement has called for a one million man march in the capital and across the country tomorrow Other groups have reportedly echoed the call.

• Elections should go ahead as planned at the end of this month, but political leaders will head to Tahrir to 'protect' the protesters, a conference of political parties has said. The stance has provoked a mixed response from the protesters, who are relieved that the formal civilian political arena is finally joining the movement but are frustrated at an apparent unwillingness to confront Scaf head on. (See 12.22pm.)
• Foreign secretary William Hague refused to call for Egypt's Scaf authorities to step down now, saying it was important that they oversaw the elections and then transfered power "as quickly as possible" to civilian rule. Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Hague said the violence was "of great concern", but that Britain would not be taking sides.
Click to expand...
 
I've been away from the news today but the G reports that a letter condemning the actions of the state has been signed by 109 ambassadors and diplomats
 
There are big signs of splits in the ruling class. Some of them must be so terified this violence will prompt a general strike. In fact that may be inevitable now anyway.
 
Big chant in Tahrir just now "you want this to be Syria, we will make it Libya". Must be elements of the regime terrified of where SCAF are taking them...
 
Fedayn said:
Meaningless given the Military has been in control with the cabinet a mere fig leaf. Looks more like passing the buck than anything else....
Click to expand...

Oh yes, which is why I said it sounded familiar, since the same thing happened under Mubarak and it didn't appease people one bit, they knew where the real power lies. I would say that it robs the regime of the ability to hide behind civilian politicians, but they never seriously tried to pretend anyone other than the military were in charge anyway, and have instead relied on the special place the army is supposed to occupy in Egyptian hearts. Some Egyptians are still having trouble coming to terms with the realities, and today on twitter I still see on or two who are somehow trying to convince themselves that events of recent days are not caused by the military regime, but rather 'rogue' police, but I think they are having more trouble convincing themselves of this than last time around. The people calling for the fall of the field-marshall and SCAF are under no such illusions.
 
Having said that just because the cabinet & PM resigning is meaningless in the sense of where the real power is to be found, it still has some meaning as a more general barometer of how much the protests & violent response has sent the regime into crisis.
 
Hmmmm.

Jamal Himdan, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood's public relations committee, spoke with Al Jazeera just minutes ago.
The interim cabinet's resignation offer is "nothing more than an act to save face by [Prime Minister Essam] Sharaf's government," he said.
Himdan said that the Brotherhood and the protesters in Tahrir Square both want the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to end the transitional period and hand over power by mid-2012.
Himdan also alleged that the SCAF and Interior Ministry security forces are specifically planning their tactics to provoke Egyptians into an angry reaction that will delay elections:
"The current tactics employed ... have been to fluctuate the people in Tahrir Square, evacuate an area, draw back, allow more people to go in," he said. "They have allowed videos to be posted, even among police forces ... it's the type of provocation to entice more people ... into Tahrir Square, and we believe that this entire process is a way to undermine the democratic transition."
Click to expand...

From Al Jazeeras live blog a few hours ago at http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Egypt

I find it hard to guess which possibilities are accurate, and there were plenty of stark predictions that came to nothing during the Jan & Feb events. I am not convinced that the regime wanted things to happen this way at all, and the MB will be looking for reasons not to delay these elections as they are likely to do rather well in them. But I doubt its quite that straightforward, and there are some contradictions. Last time there were moments where we struggled to work out whether the regime was being sneaky clever or really stupid, and in most respects it turned out they were being stupid. They were clever in one regard, playing the 'military and the people are as one' card to full effect, enabling the regime to survive. That card probably still works across quite a section of the Egyptian public, but it doesnt work in Tahrir square anymore, although they haven't really tested this by sending in the tanks this time around.
 
The danger that people will split in dangerous ways does seem a greater risk this time, and could really play into regime hands. Here are some recent tweets about Alexandia protests which illustrate one way it could all go pear shaped, or could get rather interesting.

adamakary Adam Makary

salafi on megaphone: an eye for an eye, bullet for a bullet. we will respond the same way #Alexandria #worryingremarks
adamakary Adam Makary

protesters are demanding the salafis to leave the demo, and salafis are saying no, we're one hand, protesters booing #Alexandria
adamakary Adam Makary

protesters are chanting at the salafis, "you are the thieves of the revolution" #Alexandria #Egypt
 
I'm assuming that in the last 6 or so months the police have been re-structured, re-organised, re-stocked (they seem to have endless supplies of teargas) wages paid, secure jobs post election promised etc. Anyone been following that side of things?
 
Cheers, unusual. That's not the way things normally go. Possible sign of elite overconfidence. Here's a quick pic of today with - apparently - lots more expected after 4pm.

Ae2uM-uCEAEwee5.jpg
 
i fear that the military will be a tougher nut to crack then mubarak. They have been running the country as a vast corrupt self-enrichment programme for decades, sacrificing Mubrarak enabled them to carry on as before, but now their postion is directly threatened - and this is reflected in the increased levels of violence used agaisnt the protestors.
Leaving power could see them facing criminal charges - so the longer this goes on the more they are painted into a corner where they increase the violence to Syrian levels.
Not sure a 'tactical alliance' with the brotherhood will work due to the levels and ferocity of the protests - and the brotherhood will stand to lose a lot of support if they are seen as siding with the regime (they are already struggling with this).
Army defections and american pressure may be enough to unseat them - but I fear this could get a lot nastier.
Civil War?
 
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