Egypt anti-government protests grow

[dylans]

 

[elbows]

Rather large gap between whats being said about this in the english-speaking press so far, and whats being said in english on twitter.

Specifically the police/army violence is largely absent from the media picture, as is the presence of some muslims on the side of the demonstrators. Instead a pretty simple tale of sectarianism is told.

Unfortunately since the twitter stuff I refer to comes from anti-regime people who are of course going to want to downplay the sectarian tensions and promote anti-regime unity, I cannot take their words as the complete picture. But since state tv has apparently been focussing on the 'copts kill our brave soldiers' angle, its not hard to imagine what games are being played here.

 

[dylans]

This is how state owned "Nile TV"are reporting events

 

[dylans]

 

[dylans]

Death toll now stands at 24 dead and 212 injured. Many of the dead crushed to death by military vehicles. This was a deliberately planned and executed massacre. These events change everything. First it has totally alienated the Christian minority from the SCAF. That's something like between 5 and 10 million people. Second it makes the secular-Islamist choice very stark. This was a massacre by the military in a cynical attempt to start communal violence, divide the population along religious lines,justify further repressive measures such as a permanent extension of the emergency law and ultimately secure its position in power ahead of elections.(if indeed those elections are allowed to take place at all). It is no accident that yesterdays events came shortly after the military announced the continuation of military tribunals for civilians and violently attacked a university strike in Alexandria.

Scapegoating minorities is an old trick everywhere and a tried and tested tactic in Egypt and all the elements of the state joined in with this one. State TV has been claiming there are many dead soldiers and airing inflamatory footage of injured soldiers in hospitals claiming they were the unprovoked victims of attacks by Christians and last night it called for volunteers for what amounted to vigilante attacks against the demonstrators. TV stations that aired live footage of the military attack were raided live on air and shut down. The military have borrowed every page from Mubarak's book on retaining power and exploiting sectarian tension against religious minorities is page one

The task of the secular opposition is to fight for unity against the real enemy, the military regime and its allies in the state media. As someone on twitter posted. "The choice is now "the military and Muslims one hand" or "Christians and Muslims one hand"."There is no in between". Unfortunately it looks like the lies of the state TV are widely believed with reports of many civilians responding to the state TV call to join the attack on Christians or applauding the military. The danger is that the counter revolution will not only succeed and the authoritarian state re consolidate its grip on power but it will do so to the sound of cheering and applause from a weary,fearful population clamoring for order at any price.This is what the military want. Not only to retain power but to do so with an air of legitimacy and to present its actions as a response to the public demand for order. Tantawi is laughing, the military are laughing, the Salafists are laughing, the brotherhood are laughing and the rights of an increasingly persecuted religious minority lie dead in the streets. It won't be long before the rights of everyone else join them as the iron fist of the military counter revolution slams down on everyone's heads. All it will take is another attack on a church or on a group of Christians and things could get very bad indeed. The revolution and its gains have never been more in danger than after last night

 

[elbows]

Well I have no way to judge the extent to which state tv lies are believed, time will tell. The SCAF strategy is not without risk, and I cannot tell how weary people are.

The UK coverage from the likes of the Guardian and BBC is better this morning than it was last night, with plenty of talk of military police violence, and the BBC saw fit to mention that there were muslims on all sides of the battle.

"We were marching peacefully," said Talaat Youssef, a 23-year-old Christian trader. "When we got to the state television building, the army started firing live ammunition," he added.
Another protester, Essam Khalili, said: "Thugs attacked us and a military vehicle jumped over a sidewalk and ran over at least 10 people," he said.
Online, Egyptians queued up to blame the ruling military council for fomenting the violence, accusing army generals of using social instability as an excuse for cracking down on freedom of expression. "Let there be no doubt, today's killings are committed by #SCAF [the ruling military council]. They are the killers," wrote one Twitter user.

Appealing for calm after more than 1,000 security force personnel were deployed, interim prime minister Essam Sharaf said: "What is taking place are not clashes between Muslims and Christians but attempts to provoke chaos and dissent."
"The only beneficiary of these events and acts of violence are the enemies of the January revolution and the enemies of the Egyptian people, both Muslim and Christian"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/09/egypt-protests-cairo-clashes

Correspondents say that many Muslims came out to defend Christians from the security forces and protest against the military's continued hold on power.
Some called for the resignation of the military council, in particular its chairman, Field Marshal Mohamed Tantawi.
Others responded to government calls to help the army quell the unrest for the sake of stability.
Some protesters reported hearing gunfire, and several said they had seen a military vehicle run over at least five people.
Eyewitness Nigel Hetherington says troops fired rubber bullets and teargas into crowds. "I saw civilians running past my window as troops fired wildly into the crowds," he told the BBC.

Mr Sharaf, who toured the area where the clashes occurred, also addressed calls by protesters for the removal of the military rulers.
"The most serious threat to the country's security is tampering with national unity, and the stirring of discord between Muslim and Christian sons of Egypt," he said in a televised address late on Sunday.
He added that such violence - the worst in Egypt since President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in February - was "tampering with the relationship between the people and the army".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15235636

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Once again reports of "thugs" causing a lot of the trouble

I'm sure that a lot of the deaths were caused by the security forces but a BBC reporter was interviewed on the Today programme and she had a good vantage point of the troubles from a bridge. She saw these thugs attacking both the Christians and the security services. Who are they?! They always seem to be reported on whenever there is trouble and a lot of the online Egyptian protesters mutter of an anti-revolutionary conspiracy but I've never read a clear explanation of just who they are

 

[dylans]

Once again reports of "thugs" causing a lot of the trouble

I'm sure that a lot of the deaths were caused by the security forces but a BBC reporter was interviewed on the Today programme and she had a good vantage point of the troubles from a bridge. She saw these thugs attacking both the Christians and the security services. Who are they?! They always seem to be reported on whenever there is trouble and a lot of the online Egyptian protesters mutter of an anti-revolutionary conspiracy but I've never read a clear explanation of just who they are

The Egyptian state has always used paid civilians and undercover or off duty cops to do its dirty work. The use of such tactics goes way back and can even be traced to medieval times. They are Known as "baltagiya" which is not originally an Arabic word but derives from Turkish meaning "axe or cudgel" (balti) Singular is baltagi and the meaning is "the person who wields the balti"

Imagine the brown shirts transferred to an Egyptian setting. They were routinely used to intimidate and attack political opponents during the Mubarak years and most famously they were unleashed after the January uprising to attack the Tahrir demonstrators and to cause chaos and disorder. Many of them are lumpen elements who,during the Mubarak years were recruited from gangs in poor suburbs and paid a small sum to enforce the will of the old NDP. They would intimidate political opponents during elections and tear down opposition posters, break up meetings and rallies, bust heads etc. Now they enforce the will of the SCAF. Many of them work as paid informers for the police or work as local enforces for political or business interests as strike breakers, racketeers, hired muscle etc. Some are criminals who operate with a degree of impunity and pay kickbacks to local cops for drug dealing and other types of crime. Some are undercover or off duty police or CSF. During last nights attack they were probably joined by Salafi Islamists or even brotherhood aligned muscle. Some of those attacking demonstrators were also probably just gullible locals encouraged and incited by the media with lies about Christians attacking the army.

The problem with this term is that since the revolution it has increasingly been used, not least by the military itself, as a term of abuse to label anyone they oppose. The military it should be remembered has adopted the language of the revolution. Thus when it labels democracy activists (or Christians or strikers etc) as baltagiya it is attempting to delegitimise the opposition and present itself as the defender of the revolution. Any acts of repression then are justified in revolutionary terms as defending the revolution against those who wish to cause chaos and instability etc.

Good article on the baltagiya and their role since the January uprising here

Ali Sobhy, an Egyptian actor and activist who stayed in Tahrir Square all the 18 days of the revolution, was one of the victims of torture inside the Egyptian Museum. Sobhy describes how the military was trying to stage the Baltagiya transformation act in TV interview: “They lined us up inside the Museum, start beating us karate style, a special trained officer flew in the air and hit us in the faces with his army boots… these guys seem to know what they are doing, as far as filming goes. They took us away to another room inside the Museum where there were cameras and a stage; they messed up our hair and started photographing our smashed faces.”

You see Baltagiya in the Egyptians mind have special look that everyone recognizes, a Baltagi (singular) has three facial characteristics: a messed up hair, a missing tooth, and a scar in the face. Many Egyptians may have one or two of these characteristics at one time or another as a result of their harsh life, but not all three at the same time, that is sort of reserved for Baltagiya.

The military took the pictures and published it throughout their media network, state TV and on Facebook: targeting the young tech-savvy Egyptians, I guess.
By this time the military was calling the Thouwar (the brave heartsof Tahrir) Baltagiya. This has now triggered another Baltagiya war. All one needs to do to discredit another, opposition group, is to simply call them Baltagiya. Even the real Baltagiya call their opponents Baltagiya.
So students, demanding change in their school system, are called Baltagiya by their deans. Journalist, demanding change in the press laws, are called Baltagiya by the Minister of Culture. Copts (Egyptian Christians), demanding religious freedom, are called Baltagiya by Islamists. Salafy groups that want Sharia in the constitution are called Baltagiya by the secular groups. Those who protest for minimum wages are called Baltagiya. Even the older professional Baltagiya themselves call the new ones—no prizes for guessing—Baltagiya

http://insightnews.com/commentary/7940-the-baltagiya-and-the-post-revolution-egypt
.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There's an eye witness account here of to what happened last night:

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/503496

 

[dylans]

Reports of fresh fighting between Copts and military today.

FIGHTING HAS RESUMED on the streets of Cairo, Egypt.
The latest violence comes hours before funeral services for the victims were to be held at the Coptic Christian cathedral in Cairo.
Security officials say clashes between Christian protesters and Egyptian security forces have resumed, with hundreds pelting the police with
rocks outside a central Cairo hospital.

http://www.thejournal.ie/fighting-r...f-unrest-249985-Oct2011/?utm_source=shortlink

 

[dylans]

Oh what a surprise. Egypt state TV admits it made up the story of soldiers deaths.

CAIRO: Egypt’s state television announced on Monday that there are no deaths among the military forces after previously reporting there were during the bloody Sunday clashes between the military and Coptic protesters, saying that it was the fault of the news presenter.
State TV, also known as Maspero, is under fire from rights activists for falsely reporting that the Coptic protesters attacked the military forces with weapons, which resulted in the death of at least three soldiers and the called on the Egyptian people to take to the street to help protect the armed forces.
The news, when reported on Sunday evening, agitated many Muslims, who took up arms and went to the streets of downtown, clashing with protesters, both Muslims and Coptic Christians, injuring dozens in the worst sectarian violence since the fall of ousted President Hosni Muabrak’s regime.

http://bikyamasr.com/45280/egypt-state-television-admits-to-making-up-news-over-soldiers-deaths/

 

[Pickman's model]

The Egyptian state has always used paid civilians and undercover or off duty cops to do its dirty work. The use of such tactics goes way back and can even be traced to medieval times. They are Known as "baltagiya" which is not originally an Arabic word but derives from Turkish meaning "axe or cudgel" (balti) Singular is baltagi and the meaning is "the person who wields the balti".

indeed, such antics were known to the former colonial power, the roman empire.

 

[dylans]

indeed, such antics were known to the former colonial power, the roman empire.

I think the term Baltigiya comes from Egypt under the Ottoman Empire which administered Egypt for some 350 years from 1517 to 1867. (apart from a brief period under the Napoleon) The great Egyptian writer Naguib Mahfouz also wrote about thugs in the employ of the state during this time and used the term harafish, (also the title of his fantastic novel) meaning people of the alley.

 

[elbows]

Oh what a surprise. Egypt state TV admits it made up the story of soldiers deaths.
http://bikyamasr.com/45280/egypt-state-television-admits-to-making-up-news-over-soldiers-deaths/

Its not surprising that they made it up, but don't you think its surprising that they have admitted it? Do they care so little for the credibility of state media, that they were willing to sacrifice it for a moments effect. Perhaps I'm judging this by the wrong standards, and these factors do not have much weight in the minds of people who are calling the shots. Back when Mubarak was in power, it was possible to imagine that some of the paralysis and incompetence of the regime & army may have stemmed from forces within the regime not being too happy about Mubarak Junior & Co being groomed for power, and perhaps they were tempted to use the uprising as a means of removing this problem. But maybe its just ineptitude, or being ill-prepared for the sorts of media & networking that exist these days, and what happens when the rest of the world don't turn a blind eye. Or perhaps they are still right about Egypt and what 'works' there, and their strategies that seem risky and sometimes counterproductive to me will be proven effective.

 

[dylans]

Amazing scenes here during funerals. They are chanting for the downfall of Tantawi. The army's true now is revealed for all to see. There can no longer be any pretence that the army and the people are one. Now the opposition has to maintain unity and turn the anger onto a military regime that has just murdered its own people and seems intent on igniting a civil war.

 

[dylans]

Its not surprising that they made it up, but don't you think its surprising that they have admitted it? Do they care so little for the credibility of state media, that they were willing to sacrifice it for a moments effect. Perhaps I'm judging this by the wrong standards, and these factors do not have much weight in the minds of people who are calling the shots. Back when Mubarak was in power, it was possible to imagine that some of the paralysis and incompetence of the regime & army may have stemmed from forces within the regime not being too happy about Mubarak Junior & Co being groomed for power, and perhaps they were tempted to use the uprising as a means of removing this problem. But maybe its just ineptitude, or being ill-prepared for the sorts of media & networking that exist these days, and what happens when the rest of the world don't turn a blind eye. Or perhaps they are still right about Egypt and what 'works' there, and their strategies that seem risky and sometimes counterproductive to me will be proven effective.

Yes it does seem odd. Why not at least try to stick by their story a little bit. It seems like they are not even bothering to deny what they did which is pretty fucking outrageous given that they were inciting mobs to go and attack Christians. I'm thinking they came under immediate pressure from the military last night to spin things that way and now in the cold light of day, it is clear that its too blatant a lie to stick. It has taken exactly 24 hours for them to admit that no soldiers were killed.

It has become clear lately that some sections of the media (notably Nile TV) have increasingly been towing the military line over the past few months and the military for its part has started to get tougher with media sources that are too independent. Last night two stations were closed down live on air and several newspapers had their power cut and photos siezed etc. It was only a few weeks ago that Al Jazeera was raided and there have been several long sentences handed out to activist bloggers for criticising the military. In situations like this I guess they have to choose which side they are on and it becomes impossible to feign neutrality. Well it is pretty clear to all which side they are on now.
There is an interesting bit of analysis here from sandmonkey which struggles with exactly this question and which , if you familiar with his blog, is as insightful as ever and which manages, despite events, to remain hopeful.

This was obviously planned, so what the hell was the SCAF thinking? How could they attack and kill Egyptians on the street so casually, while their sole purpose is to protect them from getting killed? How could they risk enflaming the country into a huge sectarian battle by having state Media so conscientiously attacking the Christians and promoting violence against them? How did they not see that the choice they made is an inherently flawed one that it could spell their doom? How do you explain last night?
Well, the easy explanation is that they- like every single political force in the country throughout this year- fell into the trap of thinking that they have won and asserted their power, only to have the whole thing blow up in their faces. After believing the political street to be dead, and that the revolution is almost dying, they figured they now have the power to put “people in their proper place” like the old days. So, they went down yesterday to terrorize the Christians, counting that they won’t put up a fight (because they never really did before), and that the sectarian rhetoric will cause them all to fear for their lives, stop them from causing trouble, and quite possibly scare them from participating in the elections. With every single respectable political party formed after the revolution having prominent Christians in their founders and as their candidates, they figured that threatening us with the possibility that the next election will turn into a Muslim vs. Christian election will discourage people from voting and participating, leaving the new parties with fewer seats, with the Christians being underrepresented as always in the parliament, and thus allowing the ex NDP people control of the Parliament as the only other choice against the “Islamists”. To basically return us to the pre-revolution status quo. But had they thought this through for more than 5 minutes, they might have seen the inherent flaws in their old-and-reliable plan. They, somehow, didn’t and now they have overplayed their hand and about to face the consequences.

the Media had to backtrack very quickly and are now facing the wrath of God from the average Egyptian, with no one able or willing to defend the SCAF, or what the armed forces did. They wanted to showcase their control, and failed miserably, because even they are not strong enough to carry this country alone.

The full article is here and is well worth reading in full
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2011/10/11/the-last-choice/

 

[teqniq]

Well fuck.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

there is news coming through that the finance minster and deputy prime minister have resigned in protest over the violence against the copts

 

[dylans]

there is news coming through that the finance minster and deputy prime minister have resigned in protest over the violence against the copts

It's the same person I think. Hazem El Beblawi. He holds both posts. Not that it is going to make much difference, The issue is Tantawi and continued military rule. It is the military who have just lost all legitimacy by murdering their own people in cold blood

edited to add. His resignation has been refused by Tantawi.

 

[dylans]

Footage here of army officer firing on demonstrators.

 

[elbows]

Eye witness reports here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/11/cairo-witnesses-security-forces-bloodshed

The way the media coverage has gone suggests the regime really fucked up.

 

[teqniq]

They seem to be fucking up in an epic fashion, the latest wheeze from the state:

Firas_Atraqchi
@ElFoulio lol they just mentioned it on BBC Arabic that the latest fun fact from fun #Egypt is that Copts stole APC and ran over their own.

 

[elbows]

Have they been to Libya for unbelievable bullshit training?

 

[elbows]

A look at some of Wednesdays Egyptian newspapers. Includes a call for ElBaradei & Amr Moussa to become PM, a subject which has occasionally popped up on twitter in recent days.

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/504238

 

[dylans]

How convenient. No names. No bodies. No mourning families. Just a quiet burial witnessed by noone.

An Egyptian military official says the army has quietly buried at least three soldiers killed during clashes with mostly Coptic Christian protesters.
The official says the soldiers' funerals were low-key to avoid heightening tensions in the country.
Egypt's state MENA news agency quotes the unnamed military official as saying the soldiers' burials took place Wednesday.
The military official says the army hasn't released the exact number of troops killed in Sunday's clashes to preserve troop morale. The rioting left at least 26 dead, mostly Christian protesters.

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-worl...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[elbows]

This is described as:

@moftasa: footage (with a hidden cam) of the brutality of mob that assisted army in arresting & beating Copts

I haven't had time to watch it properly yet so Im not sure if anything of particular note is seen, but it does at least offer us footage shot from a different side than we are used to seeing.

 

[teqniq]

Oho, Twitter:

The march to #Tahrir is huge now. People chanting: 'Leave' to Tantawy. #Egypt http://twitpic.com/6zucmr

E2A:

http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/eg...y-by-scaf-say-political-powers-witnesses.html

 

[elbows]

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...V-presenter-Fouda-halts-famous-show,-cit.aspx

Renowned TV presenter Yosri Fouda said on Friday he had decided to halt his famous show ‘Akher Kalam’ for an indefinite period in protest at what he called “relentless censorship efforts.”

Fouda was due to host staunch SCAF critic Alaa El-Aswany on Thursday night to comment on the interview two Egyptian army generals, Mahmoud Hegazy and Mohamed El-Assar, gave on Wednesday.
Thursday’s episode was abruptly cancelled, fuelling speculation that Fouda, a highly-respected media figure, was pressured into shifting his plans by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF).
Fouda refrained from directly accusing any party of imposing restrictions on his work, but said he could not bear “an obligatory censorship.”
“There is a fact that gradually came to prominence during the past few months, which makes us feel that there are relentless efforts to maintain the core of the old system,” Fouda, a former BBC Arabic and Al-Jazeera employee, said in a statement on his Facebook page.
“That old system was dismantled by the Egyptian people after it spread corruption and immorality all over the country.
“There have been relentless efforts since the revolution, using both old and new techniques, to put direct and indirect pressure on those who still believe in the revolution’s values … to oblige them to impose self-restrictions on what should not be hidden.
“I find many reasons to halt the Akher Kalam show for an indefinite period. This is my way of self-restriction, either to say the truth or remain silent,” he added.

 

[elbows]

The police who killed Khalid Said have been jailed for 7 years. Controversy and anger over this because it was anticipated that charges would be upped to murder with much longer sentences, but of course the regime didn't end up doing that, and gagged the trial till this point.

 

[teqniq]

Anybody with a HSBC account might want to consider closing it:

HSBC accused of helping Egypt generals stifle dissent

interestingly the Indie have pulled the content for the above article. However the bones of it can be found here