Egypt anti-government protests grow

[Divisive Cotton]

the bbc obviously feel that matters have changed as they are now broadcasting live from Tahir Square again

 

[dylans]

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

and here we (might) go again, bbc news report very much suggesting that muslim brotherhood are exploiting situation for political gain.

 

[dylans]

and here we (might) go again, bbc news report very much suggesting that muslim brotherhood are exploiting situation for political gain.

The Muslim brotherhood are increasingly on the back foot, reluctantly responding to events on the streets, losing their younger members and increasingly finding themselves miles behind the momentum of the streets and in the factories.They reluctantly agreed to support last friday's Tahrir demonstrations, have been absolutely silent over events in Suez and are actively opposed to the continuation of the Tahrir occupation. The MB have sided with the military and Tantawi and now are looking silly and irrelevent as the demonstrations increasingly target the military itself. This present uprising is revealing the MB as the pro regime, pro military and counter revolutionary organisation that they are.....Good

 

[treelover]

'Ten minutes later, the lights came back on. But in that short time, disgruntled workers who've been on strike here for the last three weeks had made their point: The Suez Canal, one of the world's busiest transportation hubs, could be paralyzed with very little effort.'

They need to be careful though, freight companies, etc are thinking of abandoning the Suez Canal and using the more cost effective newly opened Artic routes.

 

[elbows]

They need to be careful though, freight companies, etc are thinking of abandoning the Suez Canal and using the more cost effective newly opened Artic routes.

Got any links? Because I look at a map and struggle to work out how new Arctic routes would reduce reliance on the Suez Canal. The canal is popular because it removes the need to go all the way round Africa.

 

[treelover]

its a bit off topic, was in the independent recently, global warming is opening up new routes as the ice melts

 

[elbows]

Yeah some people have been going on about these new routes for some years now, but I still don't see how these alternatives make the Suez canal unattractive, as the arctic seems like a very long way round the world from many places.

Meanwhile the gas pipeline from Egypt to Israel and Jordan has been blown up for a 4th time!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/12/egypt-pipeline-explosion-fourth-attack

 

[TruXta]

Yeah some people have been going on about these new routes for some years now, but I still don't see how these alternatives make the Suez canal unattractive, as the arctic seems like a very long way round the world from many places.

Meanwhile the gas pipeline from Egypt to Israel and Jordan has been blown up for a 4th time!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/12/egypt-pipeline-explosion-fourth-attack

The northwest passage is the most direct shipping route from Europe to Asia, hence the interest. If the Arctic continues melting it'll likely drain a lot of traffic away from the Suez canal, not least because it'll most likely be an international shipping lane - ie free to use. Altho the Canadians are trying their best to claim it as theirs.

 

[elbows]

The northwest passage is the most direct shipping route from Europe to Asia, hence the interest. If the Arctic continues melting it'll likely drain a lot of traffic away from the Suez canal, not least because it'll most likely be an international shipping lane - ie free to use. Altho the Canadians are trying their best to claim it as theirs.

Ta for info, I'm a bit out of date as to when the most useful Arctic shipping lanes are projected to become viable, how many years left of melting at present pace, any ideas?

I've tended to believe that reports in the past were probably a bit too optimistic and were talking up this stuff, but years have gone by and I really haven't checked to see how its going.

As for the traffic changing possibilities, I think I am probably a bit oil-centric with my prior comments. As far as I know Suez Canal will remain vital for middle eastern oil supplies going to Europe, until such a time as oil no longer flows in sizeable volumes from that part of the world. And as the ramifications for such eventualities are so wide, by that point the profitability and 'reliability' of the Suez canal will be an issue possibly dwarfed by many new realities.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Another moment of truth approaching you'd have to think. The SCAF statement today only seems to have made people angrier with it's threats to those engaged in civil disobedience. Nasty scenes with the baltagi unleashed again on the fringes of Tahrir. Great mood in Tahrir and Suez by all accounts, momentum with our side for now.

And as dylans says the MB are gonna suffer with their own base. I guess the sixty million dollar question is how much control do they still have, can they do what SCAF can't and isolate the revolutionaries. Certainly doesn't look like.

 

[elbows]

Via the Facebook group:

We are all Khaled Said
Egypt minister of interior has just announced the decision of ending the service (firing/sacking) of 505 Egyptian Police Generals and 82 Police Brigadiers. Among them 18 Generals and 9 Brigadiers currently standing trial accused of murdering protesters.

 

[elbows]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/13/egypt-protests-military-postpones-election

Many activists argue that an early poll would only benefit those forces which already boast a strong organisational capacity – namely the Muslim Brotherhood and local remnants of Mubarak's NDP party – and some have called for a new constitution to be written before any parliamentary ballot takes place.

This week, against a backdrop of nationwide protests against its handling of the post-Mubarak transition period, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) acknowledged for the first time that a delay in elections might be necessary.

"Procedures for a parliamentary election will begin in September, possibly the middle of the month. That will involve registration of candidates," an army source told Reuters. "Then there will be a campaigning period … This could take the voting till after September, possibly November."

Interesting.

On Tuesday, SCAF offered its first formal response to the recent grassroots challenge to its legitimacy, through a televised statement by the council's spokesman General Mohsen el-Fangari. The statement – which adopted a paternalistic tone and threatened "anyone seeking to disrupt public order" – was met with furious jeers from protesters in several cities. In scenes reminiscent of Mubarak's final days when the dictator made a series of poorly-received public speeches in an effort to cling on to power, many demonstrators expressed their deliberate disrespect to el-Fangari by holding aloft their shoes during the address.

Soon after the statement ended thousands of demonstrators surged out of Tahrir and towards the nearby parliament building and cabinet office, which are being guarded by the military, to express their dissatisfaction with SCAF and the country's de facto leader, Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi. Chants of "the people want the downfall of the Marshal" and "we're not leaving, he is leaving" rang through the streets, but violence was avoided.

"The situation is very, very tense," Mamdouh Hamza, a civil engineer and prominent dissident, told the Guardian. "The military council is angry, but the Egyptian people are twice as angry. SCAF have to have a change of policy, they simply cannot carry on in this way."

Fun.

In a later press conference, SCAF appeared to adopt a more conciliatory position, insisting that the military had no plans to use violence against "law-abiding" citizens and claiming that suggestions to the contrary "hurt the feelings of the armed forces, which took the side of the people from the very beginning." But the council also claimed that "all options were open" in dealing with those obstructing the normal functioning of the state.

The military also announced it had accepted the resignation of deputy prime minister Yehia el-Gamal, one of several cabinet members that protesters have campaigned against due to their links with the Mubarak regime.

The same old stance from the army then, hurt their feelings lol.

 

[dylans]

The same old stance from the army then, hurt their feelings lol.

They are torn between concession and repression. Concession's inspire confidence and lead to more demands and emboldens the mass movement. Strikers win a battle in one place and the victory serves as an inspiration for the next. This is as true of the regime now as it was of Mubarak. Repression increases the anger of the street and strips the military of the illusion of legitimacy that it has so carefully wound around itself. Under Mubarak the military could leave repression to the civil security apparatus while appearing above the fray. The revolution has stripped that layer of repression away and now the military have to do the dirty work themselves thus showing their true nature.
Whatever they do, the military can't win, because despite their claims they represent the same old regime.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Father and son clean up #tahrir as the sun sets over another friday of protests

 

[Combustible]

Something which seems to have slipped under the radar (at least over here). The military have refused to allow election monitors in any forthcoming parliamentary elections.

Earlier, Egypt's council of military rulers indicated it will not allow international monitors to observe upcoming parliamentary elections.

Major-General Mamdouh Shaheen, who presented the new election law to reporters on Wednesday, said barring foreign monitors was a necessary step to protect Egypt's sovereignty.

"We have nothing to hide," he said.

He said the generals "reject anything that affects our sovereignty" and that Egyptian election monitors will observe the process instead.

The decision was criticised by activists, who said it raises questions about the transparency of the first elections after Mubarak's toppling and urged the military to reconsider.

Hafez Abou Saada, a member of the National Council for Human Rights, said promises of free and fair elections from the military are not enough, and noted that barring international monitors mirrors the line adopted by Mubarak's government.

"International monitors are part of any modern elections," he said.

"Many countries are watching what is happening in Egypt. This is not a very positive signal."

The new law also lowers the minimum age for candidacy for the lower house from 30 to 25, apparently to allow youth who led the 18-day uprising against Mubarak.

Rules for the upper house remain the same: candidates must be at least 35 years old, and a newly elected president will appoint 100 of the body's 390 members.

Shaheen, the military council member. said the judiciary will oversee the whole electoral process, limiting the role of the interior ministry, which many Egyptians say remains tainted by its many years as the Mubarak government's enforcer, and was responsible for much of the rigging in previous elections.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/07/2011721135952848300.html

Just goes to show the confidence the military have of retaining control in nominally open and free elections.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Anti SCAF march today ambushed by thugs, many injuries, the tweeps on the spot are saying it's like the camel fight.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Clashes come thing to a halt, the anti SCAF folk are heading back to Tahrir. Worrying that local residents were apparently among those attacking.

 

[dylans]

Clashes come thing to a halt, the anti SCAF folk are heading back to Tahrir. Worrying that local residents were apparently among those attacking.

Some Footage here

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXwuwLls1Qg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

This was an army organised attack. There are lots of arrests and injuries, including shootings. Reports of violence and arrests in Alex too.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Hossam's detailed account here. Looks like the army may have outflanked the marchers literally and tactically on this one. Lots of debate this morning about getting into situations were you clash with fellow citizens in their neighbourhoods, not good.

 

[elbows]

Despite the usual flurry of bad health stories again recently, details for the trial of Mubarak & co are emerging, due to start next Wednesday, perhaps rather appropriately in the Public Investment Administration building in Cairo.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bab...cairo-set-as-the-venue-for-mubarak-trial.html

 

[teqniq]

Very tense situation in and around Tahrir according to Twitter, confrontation between SCAF and protestors:

moftasa Mostafa Hussein
From AJE live: Army soldiers are destroying tents in the middle of the square. #tahrir
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Sarahcarr أبو كار
Army destroying the camp live on AJA Mubasher #tahrir
2 minutes ago

 

[dylans]

Very tense situation in and around Tahrir according to Twitter, confrontation between SCAF and protestors:

live footage here

http://mubasher-misr.aljazeera.net/

I think there are a number of reasons why this is happening now. 1. It's the beginning of Ramadan, and the demonstration has been dwindling the past week or so ahead of that. 2. Mubarak is due to appear in court on Wednesday and the military are probably trying to impose some kind of order on the streets ahead of that. 3 the sit in has become increasingly unpopular lately, especially with small businesses around the square. It's probably a sign that this particular tactic has reached its usefulness for now. Time for different strategies perhaps.

 

[teqniq]

 

[nino_savatte]

Guardian reporting that the army has "violently taken" Tahrir Square.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/egypt-army-tahrir-square?CMP=twt_gu

 

[nino_savatte]

Guardian reporting that the army has "violently taken" Tahrir Square.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/egypt-army-tahrir-square?CMP=twt_gu

 

[dylans]

I know the military is still in power. I know this is just a bone thrown by the military to pacify the streets. I know that nothing will really change as a result of it ...But it is good to see the bastard in a cage. (a cage that he introduced)

 

[Divisive Cotton]

yeah you can cynically look at the various aspects of the trial but it clearly is a victory in its own way

 

[Divisive Cotton]

i wonder if tony blair will be prepared to give a character reference to the "brave and courageous" mubarak during his trial?

 

[lopsidedbunny]

How an earth did the "ill" bed ridden guilty Egypt's deposed President Hosni Mubara sold himself for a death penalty? It's crazy he could had stay in power and stay alive... I never under the middle east...