Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of this from the book. They also become Pauls army killing millions to take over planets for his empire later on.
Dune - dir. Denis Villeneuve
- Thread starter Crispy
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I'm aware of this from the book. They also become Pauls army killing millions to take over planets for his empire later on.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Billions!
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Been reading around the novel and film.
This article is harsh but asks question why make a film of this novel now.
www.paulsturtevant.com
I'd say I will have to wait until Villeneuve gets second part out.
Villeneuve has made some good Liberal but dark films in the past around contemporary issues.
This article shows what a problematic novel Dune is.
As I've said previously Frank Herbert was a Republican / Hippy. His novel was success amongst "alternative" society. His politics were all over the place. This doesn't surprise me.
Take the Fremen. On one level sympathetic portrayal of oppressed group. They are also portrayed by Herbert as warrior caste. Their hard life had meant the weak were weeded out. Tribal leaders (men) kept position by fights to the death with those who challenged them. Women were strong but know their place. It can be read as right wing fantasy.
The insidious elitist aspect of the plot that does not feature in film is that the myths the Fremen live by have been implanted in them centuries ago by Bene Gesserit. Which partly explains why Paul's mother survives capture by Fremen. Likewise her son Paul.
One aspect of story that comes across more in Dune Messiah is that religion is way elites can manipulate the masses.
Fremen are being manipulated. Bene Gesserit then Paul.
Its a depressing scenerio.
This article is harsh but asks question why make a film of this novel now.
Dune, with its white savior and love of eugenics, is not the sci-fi we need in 2020
Dune isn't the film we need right now. It's the story is of a superman white savior created by eugenics who leads space-"Arabs" to commit genocide. Yikes.
www.paulsturtevant.com
I'd say I will have to wait until Villeneuve gets second part out.
Villeneuve has made some good Liberal but dark films in the past around contemporary issues.
This article shows what a problematic novel Dune is.
As I've said previously Frank Herbert was a Republican / Hippy. His novel was success amongst "alternative" society. His politics were all over the place. This doesn't surprise me.
Take the Fremen. On one level sympathetic portrayal of oppressed group. They are also portrayed by Herbert as warrior caste. Their hard life had meant the weak were weeded out. Tribal leaders (men) kept position by fights to the death with those who challenged them. Women were strong but know their place. It can be read as right wing fantasy.
The insidious elitist aspect of the plot that does not feature in film is that the myths the Fremen live by have been implanted in them centuries ago by Bene Gesserit. Which partly explains why Paul's mother survives capture by Fremen. Likewise her son Paul.
One aspect of story that comes across more in Dune Messiah is that religion is way elites can manipulate the masses.
Fremen are being manipulated. Bene Gesserit then Paul.
Its a depressing scenerio.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
A colleague was talking about this film today and i misheard them and thought they were talking about Junior, the Schwarzenegger film where he gets pregnant. It took me way longer than it should’ve to work it out 
Idaho
blah blah blah
I suppose, with a user name like gramsci, you would couch everything into tribal political groupings and see all actions as an extension of those affiliations.Been reading around the novel and film.
This article is harsh but asks question why make a film of this novel now.
Dune, with its white savior and love of eugenics, is not the sci-fi we need in 2020
Dune isn't the film we need right now. It's the story is of a superman white savior created by eugenics who leads space-"Arabs" to commit genocide. Yikes.
I'd say I will have to wait until Villeneuve gets second part out.
Villeneuve has made some good Liberal but dark films in the past around contemporary issues.
This article shows what a problematic novel Dune is.
As I've said previously Frank Herbert was a Republican / Hippy. His novel was success amongst "alternative" society. His politics were all over the place. This doesn't surprise me.
Take the Fremen. On one level sympathetic portrayal of oppressed group. They are also portrayed by Herbert as warrior caste. Their hard life had meant the weak were weeded out. Tribal leaders (men) kept position by fights to the death with those who challenged them. Women were strong but know their place. It can be read as right wing fantasy.
The insidious elitist aspect of the plot that does not feature in film is that the myths the Fremen live by have been implanted in them centuries ago by Bene Gesserit. Which partly explains why Paul's mother survives capture by Fremen. Likewise her son Paul.
One aspect of story that comes across more in Dune Messiah is that religion is way elites can manipulate the masses.
Fremen are being manipulated. Bene Gesserit then Paul.
Its a depressing scenerio.
World views in people are vague and shifting things. They might support X over Y for all kinds of reasons. It's a fun story about magic space people. Reductionist analysis based on some political bestiary is just stupid and pointless.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
This is kind of arguing that nothing means anything, or that culture floats free of politics. No one is telling you to stop enjoying Dune. You can both enjoy Harry Potter books and talk about their particularly terrible version of liberalism.
Idaho
blah blah blah
I find Marxist analysis useful and entertaining when looking at politics, but utterly drab when used on literature.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I don't think you need Marxian analysis to spot that a lot of the politics of Dune is about powerful people manipulating the wider population or imposing themselves with violence. The question then is who Herbert is sympathetic to among his own creations.
Idaho
blah blah blah
The point he's making is that megalomaniacs are attracted to positions of power and people are ever willing to cede their power to charismatic leaders with simple answers.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Sandworms. No sandworms in LoA.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The camel trains. Their ability to come together in an unstoppable mass to drive through the Turkish ranks and then almost immediately scatter and disappear into the desert was an (explicit, iirr) inspiration.
No trains being attacked in Dune.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It's how Villeneuve sees the Dune the novel. Why he decided to make it into a film.
Behold Dune: A New Look at Timothée Chalamet, Zendaya, and More
Feuding royals. A deadly planet. Before Star Wars or Game of Thrones, there was this legendary story.
He says its
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Idaho
blah blah blah
That's making completely different points to the ones you madeIt's how Villeneuve sees the Dune the novel. Why he decided to make it into a film.
Behold Dune: A New Look at Timothée Chalamet, Zendaya, and More
Feuding royals. A deadly planet. Before Star Wars or Game of Thrones, there was this legendary story.www.vanityfair.com
He says its
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
There are in the original 6-hour version that was butchered by the studio, before David Lean changed his surname and moved to the US to do more experimental work.
You can see the remnants of one of the scenes where, walking across the desert, one of Lawrence's companions is swallowed by "quicksand".
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
That's making completely different points to the ones you made
What you objected to was me making a political comment on the film which you said was:
I posted up what Villeneuve said as he thinks the novel is political with something to say to the present.
Btw I don't think my comment on the film was particularly "Marxist". Or even that controversial. You may or may not agree with it. But its not reductionist nor is it going against why Villeneuve decided to make a film of this novel.
I enjoyed the film as a spectacle. Its made me think more about the novel. I felt it was accurate visualisation of how the novel felt to me.
It's possible to enjoy something and think critically of it.
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Idaho
blah blah blah
Yes there are political messages that are interesting. What I find tiresome and without much value was characterising Herbert as a hippy republican and drawing a wealth of significance from it.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
This might be just me, but when it comes to stories based on battles between feudal oppressors, I do have problems giving a fuck who wins.
Just being on the side with the leader who has fewer weeping sores isn’t quite enough.
And before anyone asks, no, I haven’t read the books.
I did really enjoy the film - it was mahoosive. It’s just that I wasn’t that much on either side. Especially because Drax was on the other one and I like Drax.
Just being on the side with the leader who has fewer weeping sores isn’t quite enough.
And before anyone asks, no, I haven’t read the books.
I did really enjoy the film - it was mahoosive. It’s just that I wasn’t that much on either side. Especially because Drax was on the other one and I like Drax.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Not what you posted. Your moving the goalposts. First you complain about "Marxist" criticism of "fun" story. How you assume I'm making Marxist analysis. How much you dislike Marxist analysis of culture.
Now you've moved the goalposts to argue against looking at biographical history of the writer. And the writers politics. Which you find "tiresome".
Which BTW isn't particularly "Marxist" way of looking at culture.
BTW my background is "hippy". I grew up in that. Good and bad sides to it imo. Frank Herbert is typical example. In real life I would have got on with him. But having grown up in that I see the drawbacks.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops I don't really get all the knife fighting, is that in the book?
I don't really get all the knife fighting, is that in the book?
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Shield technology means that projectile weapons (especially laser guns*) became obsolete. So knife fighting became the only practical method of combat.Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops
Fremen however do still use a traditional projectile weapon because shields aren’t advisable on Dune (they attract worms) and so haven’t learnt the same aversion to projectile weapons. Fremen are still very handy at hand to hand combat too obviously.
* They cause small nuclear explosions when they hit a shield.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops
In the book the knife fighting scenes demonstrate mind over matter. The more psychological aspects of the novel. It's not purely fighting in the book. Its part and parcel of how these people over centuries have heightened their responses. Use same techniques in interactions with others. It's one of the more interesting things in the novel. Not easy to get it across in film. The early scenes using the voice in film demonstrate it.
The Mentats are specialised example. But not good at emotional side. This doesn't come across in film.
So not surprised you ask about it.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
Just back from seeing it at the Everyman. First cinema trip for over 2 years.
I think I'm only ever going to see films at the Everyman in the day, in the week. Barely anyone there, comfortable sofas. Food and drinks delivered to our sofa.
I loved it. Loved the music, loved the costumes loved the cinematography. Loved the scale. Loved the huge space craft. Kynes was a great suprise!
I think I'm only ever going to see films at the Everyman in the day, in the week. Barely anyone there, comfortable sofas. Food and drinks delivered to our sofa.
I loved it. Loved the music, loved the costumes loved the cinematography. Loved the scale. Loved the huge space craft. Kynes was a great suprise!
Was disappointed that the guild navigator wasn't in it.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Saw it last night. Really enjoyed it (have read the book - twice - and am a fan of the Lynch film).
Amazing cinematography and design. Good acting. Well plotted - I liked the pacing and the way the story unspooled.
Only bit I didn’t think worked quite so well was the cutting between the Duke’s death and Paul/Jessica in the desert.
Amazing cinematography and design. Good acting. Well plotted - I liked the pacing and the way the story unspooled.
Only bit I didn’t think worked quite so well was the cutting between the Duke’s death and Paul/Jessica in the desert.
shifting gears
Well-Known Member
Still not made it to this and trying to work out where’s best to see it in London - gutted to find it’s finished at the imax… any tips for a great screen/sound venue?
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
Depends a lot where you live but like Kali above I saw mine at my local Everyman (not tiny but not huge) and wasn't disappointed. The sofa model can be a downside if you're not easily divisible by two though.
Some of the dialogue I found hard to distinguish but this is seemingly a problem with the sound mix itself and not the cinema.
Some of the dialogue I found hard to distinguish but this is seemingly a problem with the sound mix itself and not the cinema.
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
I saw it at Hackney Picturehouse which has a massive wide screen and excellent sound.
I've never read the book and could muster little interest in the story, but I enjoyed the cinematic experience of it.
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shifting gears
Well-Known Member
Cheers, Hackney is not very convenient for me though tbh - thinking more west end/central, anyone else got any tips? I usually go to Barbican but it’s not on on their big screen, only the smaller ones
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
The big cinemas at leicester square are your best bet. "Superscreen" at cineworld Empire or the Dolby screen at the Odeon
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