Driverless trains on the Tube?
- Thread starter 8ball
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They also make it impossible to jump in front of a train.
TitanSound
Mr Beardy Drummer
What choice will people have? It seems it's more of a future given than possibility.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Humans also cause things to go wrong. You can't win with humans.
1991? You're desperate. That was decades ago. And besides, if you read the article you linked to, you'll see that one of the trains was being operated by a human.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
didn't you say there hadn't been a crash on the dlr? and fyi the 1991 incident not mentioned in article about 1987.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
depends on the humans of course.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I'd never go on a tube train that had no member of staff on it who could control the actual train. And that person must be additional to the person who walks up and down and checks tickets, or the person you can call when there's a problem. Even with driverless trains, might as well call that person a "driver". They sit in the front (so you know where they are) and they can do the essential driving things if something goes wrong.
The DLR isn't completely driverless anyway; it has people who come on board to do whatever they do with the something or other they use at certain key points, especially when crossing the river. There's always someone there for the under the river sections too, isn't there? It's not like they send a big train full of people under a big river and just say fuck you if anything goes wrong, it's just you and the river, good luck!
The Central Line is hellish enough as it is without it becoming some sort of dystopian Steampunk vision of the future that some of us happen to actually use. I mean, even more so than it is now.
The DLR isn't completely driverless anyway; it has people who come on board to do whatever they do with the something or other they use at certain key points, especially when crossing the river. There's always someone there for the under the river sections too, isn't there? It's not like they send a big train full of people under a big river and just say fuck you if anything goes wrong, it's just you and the river, good luck!
The Central Line is hellish enough as it is without it becoming some sort of dystopian Steampunk vision of the future that some of us happen to actually use. I mean, even more so than it is now.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not really. Humans make mistakes. And automated systems always have flaws where they cannot react to a new situation that their designers didn't think of. The combination of the two - humans monitoring semi-automated systems - would appear to be the safest option.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think this is the RMT fear (though I've never had my ticket checked on the Tube). You'll always need a human somewhere in the equation. At least one. And a dog.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
out of curiosity, would you accept that two trains colliding is a crash?
At the pointy end
From Dave Green
Airlines have many more managerial and technical staff than aircraft. To require at least one of the above staff to be physically present on each flight might be sound safety legislation, especially in the context of pilotless planes (9 August, p 30).
They would thus gain a very sharp incentive to ensure that everything possible is done to deliver a safe flight and landing. And their other work needn't suffer: with the expected "continuous" internet access, including telepresence meetings, they will just be in a flying office.
Shrewsbury, UK
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429890.200-letters-ebola-and-bushmeat.html?full=true
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
er... don't drag me into your dispute. Of course I would.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
I've been on driverless trains outside of this country and it's no big deal. It's the staff that I feel sorry for. Hopefully they can be deployed elsewhere; station & platform duties.
TitanSound
Mr Beardy Drummer
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
that's what i reckon too, but stations are being unmanned, ticket offices closed down, etc etc. the DLR doesn't always have someone on board - though most of the time it does.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Are they doing away with having colour themes that relate to the line the train operates on? That article seems to suggest it.
"...The colour palette of charcoal, grey and oxblood has been "inspired by the heritage of London..."
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
United Press International
April 22, 1991, Monday, BC cycle
Computer-controlled commuter trains collide in east London
SECTION: International
LENGTH: 210 words
DATELINE: LONDON
Two computer-controlled commuter trains collided at the height of morning rush hour in London's Docklands district, shutting down the railway system and forcing the evacuation of dozens of passengers, police and witnesses said.
One two-car shuttle traveling through the Isle of Dogs from London's Tower Gateway was struck by a second-two car train approaching from the east at a junction on the West India Quay bridge, rocking the first train and throwing it off the track.
Police had to erect a ladder to get passengers out of the tilting cars.
No serious injuries were reported but police said two passengers were taken to hospital for treatment of shock. One commuter said passengers in the first train, which was stopped, yelled ''hold on'' and ''watch out'' as the second driverless train continued toward them.
''It was bloody frightening, because you could see it unfolding before your eyes,'' said commuter Tom Bromhead.
The Docklands Light Railway, intended to serve thousands of commuters in the district, usually operates by computer, allowing the drivers to check tickets and open the doors.
The newly built system has been plagued by cost overruns and frequent shutdowns in the growing business district east of London.
April 22, 1991, Monday, BC cycle
Computer-controlled commuter trains collide in east London
SECTION: International
LENGTH: 210 words
DATELINE: LONDON
Two computer-controlled commuter trains collided at the height of morning rush hour in London's Docklands district, shutting down the railway system and forcing the evacuation of dozens of passengers, police and witnesses said.
One two-car shuttle traveling through the Isle of Dogs from London's Tower Gateway was struck by a second-two car train approaching from the east at a junction on the West India Quay bridge, rocking the first train and throwing it off the track.
Police had to erect a ladder to get passengers out of the tilting cars.
No serious injuries were reported but police said two passengers were taken to hospital for treatment of shock. One commuter said passengers in the first train, which was stopped, yelled ''hold on'' and ''watch out'' as the second driverless train continued toward them.
''It was bloody frightening, because you could see it unfolding before your eyes,'' said commuter Tom Bromhead.
The Docklands Light Railway, intended to serve thousands of commuters in the district, usually operates by computer, allowing the drivers to check tickets and open the doors.
The newly built system has been plagued by cost overruns and frequent shutdowns in the growing business district east of London.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
It originally said 'the blood of the working class' but the PR people vetoed it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I drive double-decker buses from the front seat of the top deck.
neonwilderness
What would Badgers do?
I think that part of the Jubilee is geared up for driverless operation too (don't think it's planned to happen though). RMT were claiming there were secret trials a couple of years ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18885108
This is a bit like The Day Today pool sketch
andysays
Love and solidarity
That's true, but it's not the whole story. What the driver (strictly speaking the operator) normally does is open and close the doors, then presses a switch which allows the train to be driven by computer to the next station (the DLR is similar, except that the operator isn't sat in a cab at the front).
But the ATO trains on the Victoria line can be switched to allow driver operation if there's a fault with the computer, the signalling or any other part of the system. The operator is also there to organise safe evacuation of the train if needed. The idea that a train full of passengers could run in a deep tunnel without any staff on it at all is absoluterly crazy in my opinion, but I suppose it would save a few quid, so who knows.
My knowledge of this comes from my time working as an operator (driving and working the doors) on the Bakerloo line, and as I left in the earlier 90s, some of the details may have changed inthe past 20 years, though I don't think they have.
andysays
Love and solidarity
The trains on the DLR are driverless, but not unstaffed
andysays
Love and solidarity
If they do, I for one will never travel on it, and I'll be recommending everyone I know to avoid it too.
andysays
Love and solidarity
WtactualF are you on about now???
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