Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[J Ed]

Not interfered basically

Every other single country in the Americas demanded that Zelaya be reinstated. Clinton actively conspired to prevent that and lobbied other OAS members to back the right-wing coup government. Following the consolidation of that government's power the Clinton state department provided aid to the government in order to help bolster their 'counter-insurgency' against feminists, trade unionists, gay people, environmentalists, socialists etc. The same people who killed Berta Cáceres and many others.

 

[J Ed]

I didn't even intend for things to get sidetracked on a discussion about Honduras, I just wanted to point out that being this facade of punch and judy Hollywood bullshit this is the real politics going on.

 

[teqniq]

Fair enough I did post an article about this someplace, possibly on the Cáceres thread

e2a yup here

Honduran activist Berta Caceres murdered. . .

 

[bimble]

I didn't even intend for things to get sidetracked on a discussion about Honduras, I just wanted to point out that being this facade of punch and judy Hollywood bullshit this is the real politics going on.

Yep, understood.

 

[Casually Red]

Sounds like Clinton had the better lines:

• "It’s amazing that I’m up here after Donald. I didn't think he’d be OK with a peaceful transition of power."
• "People look at the Statue of Liberty and they see a proud symbol of our history as a nation of immigrants, a beacon of hope for people around the world. Donald looks at the Statue of Liberty and sees a 4, maybe a 5 if she loses the torch and tablet and changes her hair."
• "I have deep respect for people like KellyAnne Conway. She's working day and night for Donald, and because she's a contractor, he's probably not even going to pay her."

Best Trump had was:

• "Just before taking the dais, Hillary accidentally bumped into me and she very civilly said, 'Pardon me.' And I very politely replied, 'Let me talk to you about that after I get into office.'"

He had better than that . Particularly concerning her hostility towards Catholics...with the Cardinal sitting between them . and then her going to confession and every time she was asked what her sin was responding she didn't remember . 39 times .

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Every other single country in the Americas demanded that Zelaya be reinstated. Clinton actively conspired to prevent that and lobbied other OAS members to back the right-wing coup government. Following the consolidation of that government's power the Clinton state department provided aid to the government in order to help bolster their 'counter-insurgency' against feminists, trade unionists, gay people, environmentalists, socialists etc. The same people who killed Berta Cáceres and many others.

Makes one wonder why she's bothering to run for President: according to some, she was basically responsible for pretty much anything [bad] the US did, while a mere senator or secretary of state.

 

[DotCommunist]

good bit on the podesta emails:
Why Bernie Was Right | Jacobin

I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.

 

[mojo pixy]

"So, you need both a public and a private position."

Guess if it was good enough for Bill, fnarr fnarr...

More seriously, she's only saying what most politicians try to pretend isn't the case. Till the "private" position emerges in some leak or badly-timed comment with an unexpected Mic or camera, and causes mad scandals, resignations, public self-flagellations or in some cases psychopathic denials. We know full well that realpolitik is a filthy game but we still get kind of surprised when one of the scumbags admits it.

 

[J Ed]

Makes one wonder why she's bothering to run for President: according to some, she was basically responsible for pretty much anything [bad] the US did, while a mere senator or secretary of state.

Sorry but this is actually one of the most ignorant and frustrating comments on the thread to date. Do some actual fucking reading, if you had read even a quarter of the links I have pasted on this thread about her role in the Honduran coup then you would realise why.

Actually funnily enough what you have written here reminds me of something Obama said about Clinton in 2008,

“I think the fact of the matter is that Senator Clinton is claiming basically the entire eight years of the Clinton presidency as her own, except for the stuff that didn’t work out, in which case she says she has nothing to do with it."

Except you take it to another extreme, you are saying that she is not responsible for things that she actually did as Secretary of State. She literally bragged about her involvement in the Honduran coup, and her subsequent undermining of democracy there in her book Hard Choices and then removed that section of the book in the paperback edition after people started pointing out that maybe replacing a democratically elected social democrat with a far-right coup government did not look exactly great.

 

[bimble]

J Ed Do you think that Hilary Clinton is different in any significant way from the run of the mill exactly what you'd expect establishment US politician though? She just looks like more of the same to me, someone who put the interests of the US and maintaining business as usual before the will of people in a poor neighbouring country for instance.

 

[J Ed]

"So, you need both a public and a private position."

Guess if it was good enough for Bill, fnarr fnarr...

More seriously, she's only saying what most politicians try to pretend isn't the case. Till the "private" position emerges in some leak or badly-timed comment with an unexpected Mic or camera, and causes mad scandals, resignations, public self-flagellations or in some cases psychopathic denials. We know full well that realpolitik is a filthy game but we still get kind of surprised when one of the scumbags admits it.

Funny how the private positions revealed in the private transcripts dovetail perfectly with those of the politics she has adhered to for decades while the more appealing public positions that people are trying to convince themselves of mostly coincided with running against Bernie Sanders in the primaries.

What the transcripts reveal she said to bankers is really extreme, beyond anything any serious economists or historians of the 2008 crisis would ever claim.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927

*Clinton Said That The Blame Placed On The United States Banking System For The Crisis “Could Have Been Avoided In Terms Of Both Misunderstanding And Really Politicizing What Happened.”* “That was one of the reasons that I started traveling in February of '09, so people could, you know, literally yell at me for the United States and our banking system causing this everywhere. Now, that's an oversimplification we know, but it was the conventional wisdom. And I think that there's a lot that could have been avoided in terms of both misunderstanding and really politicizing what happened with greater transparency, with greater openness on all sides, you know, what happened, how did it happen, how do we prevent it from happening? You guys help us figure it out and let's make sure that we do it right this time. And I think that everybody was desperately trying to fend off the worst effects institutionally, governmentally, and there just wasn't that opportunity to try to sort this out, and that came later.” [Goldman Sachs AIMS Alternative Investments Symposium, 10/24/13]

The idea that the US financial industry did not cause the 2008 crisis is basically conspiracy theory level of stuff, it's Zeitgeist for the ruling class. Yet this is what she is telling these people, it's ruling class solidarity, and they know that she is for them which is why they are pouring money into her campaign.

 

[J Ed]

J Ed Do you think that Hilary Clinton is different in any significant way from the run of the mill exactly what you'd expect establishment US politician though? She just looks like more of the same to me, someone who put the interests of the US and maintaining business as usual before the will of people in a poor neighbouring country for instance.

I do not think that her politics differ significantly from that of, for example, George W Bush. That's kind of the point.

 

[hash tag]

Just in case you need more...Richard Branson: Donald Trump 'vowed to spend rest of life destroying 5 enemies'

 

[mojo pixy]

ignorant and frustrating

Fair enough, I thought JC was posting facetiously but if it comes across as ignorant to you that shows how people read things otherly.

Funny how the private positions revealed in the private transcripts dovetail perfectly with those of the politics she has adhered to for decades

Yeah OK. It's all a puppet show though, Trump no less than Hillary. At this point there seems to be nothing left but cynical sniping.

 

[redsquirrel]

but we still get kind of surprised when one of the scumbags admits it.

People can be disgusted without being surprised.

 

[DotCommunist]

if it was GoT Trump would be ramsey bolton and hillary would be a blend of cersie and the many-faced god

 

[J Ed]

People can be disgusted without being surprised.

It's funny, before the Podesta e-mails so many of things that Sanders supporters said about the Clinton campaign were labelled as outlandish conspiracy theory. Now that what they have said has been confirmed suddenly we discover that of course they are doing this, no one believed otherwise! That's just politics!

 

[mojo pixy]

People can be disgusted without being surprised.

The disgust is 24/7/365. We express it out loud when we realise we weren't quite disgusted enough.

 

[DotCommunist]

if they are willing to discuss so plainly in what they know to be potentialy compromised channels, email etc, we can imagine what goes on when they speak together in private.

 

[weltweit]

Read an interesting short article in the i yesterday which says on a 2 way split trump loses but on a 4 way split he wins. Slightly worrying as I thought he was a busted flush, perhaps he isn't.

 

[mojo pixy]

if they are willing to discuss so plainly in what they know to be potentialy compromised channels, email etc, we can imagine what goes on when they speak together in private.

Don't we all. I say shit about work in private that I wouldn't like my workmates or bosses to hear. I guess the difference is that my decisions don't affect millions of people.

 

[butchersapron]

Read an interesting short article in the i yesterday which says on a 2 way split trump loses but on a 4 way split he wins. Slightly worrying as I thought he was a busted flush, perhaps he isn't.

Who are the other two then?

 

[Orang Utan]

Who are the other two then?

Johnson and Stein?

 

[butchersapron]

Johnson and Stein?

So two that aren't going to split the vote then. Daft exercise.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

This article suggests that to the extent Russia is behind the Wikileaks revelations, the intention isn't necessarily to boost Trump so much as it is to undermine American confidence in their democratic process:

One way or another, experts say, if Vladimir Putin is indeed pulling the strings in this U.S. election, the Russian president is likely less interested in propping up Donald Trump's candidacy than in trying to expose American democracy itself as a farce.

Trump a 'puppet' of Putin? WikiLeaks target isn't who you may think, Russia experts say

 

[Orang Utan]

The clip in this is very satisfying viewing - I've watched it six times already:
Terry Tate Takes Down Donald Trump Over His Disgusting Comments About Women | Huffington Post

 

[J Ed]

This article suggests that to the extent Russia is behind the Wikileaks revelations, the intention isn't necessarily to boost Trump so much as it is to undermine American confidence in their democratic process:



Trump a 'puppet' of Putin? WikiLeaks target isn't who you may think, Russia experts say

Imagine a world in which we focused on the content of the leaks rather than this unsubstantiated sabre rattling bullshit.

 

[bimble]

Imagine a world in which we focused on the content of the leaks rather than this unsubstantiated sabre rattling bullshit.

Just curious: if you had a vote in this election, would you vote Trump or stay home or which?

 

[DotCommunist]

imagine a world where peoples inexplicably networked kettles and periphial devices were used in a massive DDoS attack. I've had enough of this year I really have. The election results come in the day I have to go for a dole scum medical and the day after mothers birthday. Just fuck 2016 already, make it stop.

turnouts will be really interesting on this one I suppose. How many people can hold their nose and vote killary because the alternative is a ham ogre and a bullshit artist. I bet turnout is down on the repub side and up on the dems. But in overall, fuck me stay home and pray for god to cover the earth in a new darkness would be my option

 

[petee]

Imagine a world in which we focused on the content of the leaks rather than this unsubstantiated sabre rattling bullshit.

A portrait of John Podesta, based entirely on his hacked emails