Culturist Conference 2013

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so let me get this right.

there is no British culture.

there are groups within Britain that have their own cultures.

and you want to claim them all as British, presumably whether they like this or not.

and you don't know the difference between a national minority and an ethnic minority.

 

[Binxie]

Everyone has a culture, and those cultures are constantly changing over time. Nothing wrong with saying that there is such a thing as British culture, and nothing in that is incompatible with an anti-racist politics.

America clearly does have a culture too; I if I asked you to identify some American films, music, food, holidays, sports, political tendencies or common beliefs, I bet you could do so in a flash.

I agree with you Cynicaleconomy. However, what a lot of people are misunderstanding is that it is also racist to deny that there is such a thing as British culture (or English, Scottish etc.) I could be wrong, but I think the obsession with repressing the majority British society is actually what is fuelling an increasing lean to the right with regards to recent UKIP results.

 

[toggle]

I agree with you Cynicaleconomy. However, what a lot of people are misunderstanding is that it is also racist to deny that there is such a thing as British culture (or English, Scottish etc.) I could be wrong

I just think you could be.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

But a lot of these things don't neccesarily add up. Kilts (something iirc was an invention by walter scott) signify scottish tweeness to some people in scotland; to others they may be symbolic of british army regiments and british colonial rule over ireland. I personally have avoided Shakespeare like the plague because im a bit of a philistine, and have sympathy with the view put forward by either starkey or paxman (yikes!) that robert burns poems are a horrible dirge. Again, coming from an irish catholic background in glasgow, things like burns nights tied in traditionally with orange order and masonic order symbolise some degree of being otherised in scotland despite being scottish.

I think british punk is shit, whereas american hardcore (particularly of the New York variety) is fab.

But the bottom line is not one of that list you put there i identify with.

And then theres the point of the abritary putting these things under a set titled 'british' why not have a wider set why stop there?

All cultures are a muddle of different things though, not all of which you have to identify with. Would you say there was such a things as Brazilian culture, for example? Of course you would, and yet Brazilian culture has just as many, if not more, influences on it. I'm sure it contains just as many things that 'don't add up', too.

 

[Binxie]

so let me get this right.

there is no British culture.

there are groups within Britain that have their own cultures.

and you want to claim them all as British, presumably whether they like this or not.

and you don't know the difference between a national minority and an ethnic minority.

I'm not in favour of Britain either Toggle. I would much rather see an end to the British flag altogether because like most of you, I see it as an oppressive symbol. This is why I said it was difficult to incorporate all the nations under the term Britain because there are so many differing opinions. I'm pro English dependence, but I realise that I'm a minority in that, what would be best in my opinion would be for the whole United Kingdom to hold a independence vote when Scotland has their's but seeing as England has such less autonomy than the other states that's unlikely to happen.

And I apologise, its gone 1am and I misread/understood your point on national minorities.

Its like I say. In places such as India, there are overarching Indian cultural identities, but regionally they have some distinct ones also. You wouldn't say there is no Indian culture though, would you?

 

[xslavearcx]

I just think you could be.

I think sometimes going back to the first post by this person (when s/he said something about when people say japanese culture of whatever) that we sometimes use national definings of cultures as shorthands but these things always fall apart when put under closer examination. I think most people are aware that we are just using shorthands when we say that kinda thing?

 

[xslavearcx]

Its like I say. In places such as India, there are overarching Indian cultural identities, but regionally they have some distinct ones also. You wouldn't say there is no Indian culture though, would you?

Really just a shorthand i think. For instance, 'Hinduism' was just a convienient name the colonial administration gave to the many variants of beliefs and practices throughout the indian subcontinant to distinguish it from 'mohamedanism' and 'sikhism'...

 

[Binxie]

All cultures are a muddle of different things though, not all of which you have to identify with. Would you say there was such a things as Brazilian culture, for example? Of course you would, and yet Brazilian culture has just as many if not more influences on it, and I'm sure contains just as many things that 'don't add up'.

Yes, you are right to a degree, Brazil obviously draws a lot from Portugal and Spanish culture, but it is in itself unique.

It is like British culture, made up of Romano-Celtic influences, Anglo-Saxon, Danish and Norman cultures with arguably more recent inclusions from places such as India at least where it concerns cuisine and tea drinking.

So there we go. British culture does exist. So why did people previously say it doesn't exist?

 

[toggle]

I'm not in favour of Britain either Toggle. I would much rather see an end to the British flag altogether because like most of you, I see it as an oppressive symbol. This is why I said it was difficult to incorporate all the nations under the term Britain because there are so many differing opinions. I'm pro English dependence, but I realise that I'm a minority in that, what would be best in my opinion would be for the whole United Kingdom to hold a independence vote when Scotland has their's but seeing as England has such less autonomy than the other states that's unlikely to happen.

And I apologise, its gone 1am and I misread/understood your point on national minorities.

Its like I say. In places such as India, there are overarching Indian cultural identities, but regionally they have some distinct ones also. You wouldn't say there is no Indian culture though, would you?

I don't know enough about the Indian state and what identities it may represent to comment on that, and I seriously doubt you do either.

I would be very interested in how you define England as having less autonomy.

 

[xslavearcx]

All cultures are a muddle of different things though, not all of which you have to identify with. Would you say there was such a things as Brazilian culture, for example? Of course you would, and yet Brazilian culture has just as many, if not more, influences on it. I'm sure it contains just as many things that 'don't add up', too.

Yeah sure, but the point is surely, that these culturalist peeps are trying to identify a singular british culture that is easily defineable which excludes things designated as other, particularly it seems from (surprise surprise) muslim populations - which really can't be seriously sustained once put under the most basic examination as my little crappy anecdote demonstrates.

 

[Binxie]

Really just a shorthand i think. For instance, 'Hinduism' was just a convienient name the colonial administration gave to the many variants of beliefs and practices throughout the indian subcontinant to distinguish it from 'mohamedanism' and 'sikhism'...

Yes, I'm well aware of different branches within Hinduism, but they are more akin to slight differences. It is somewhat like the English and the Scandinavians having the same pagan deities but calling them different names and worshipping them slightly different. Still the same religion at the core though.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yeah sure, but the point is surely, that these culturalist peeps are trying to identify a singular british culture that is easily defineable which excludes things designated as other, particularly it seems from (surprise surprise) muslim populations - which really can't be seriously sustained once put under the most basic examination as my little crappy anecdote demonstrates.

You're right on this point, 100%.

 

[xslavearcx]

There are for sure overlaps in the pantheon of deities but there are massive philosophical, doctrinal, practionial differences within that category of 'hinduism' - some of which led to having different categories applied to them (such as buddhism which had a radically different take on the brahman is atman viewpoint of the upanishadic peeps), and some of which still managed to be pasted together under hinduism category. So i wouldnt say there are slight differences.

 

[Binxie]

I don't know enough about the Indian state and what identities it may represent to comment on that, and I seriously doubt you do either.

I would be very interested in how you define England as having less autonomy.

Ok. Wales has a Welsh Assembly, Welsh language groups and charities specifically for the Welsh.
Scotland has a Scottish Parliament, and again has charities for Scottish workshops to do with their culture etc.
Northern Ireland has an Assembly run by Sein Fein which rightly or wrongly, does not want British involvement any longer. (I say fair game to them.)

England has Westminster which all the other nations are actively allowed to participate in, but English politicians cannot influence votes in say, the Scottish Parliament. The English are also vilified for flying the England flag or having English cultural events because of idiots like the EDL and MfE waving St.Georges flags around and causing trouble. There is no charity, to the best of my knowledge anyway, that supports English culture.

England is denied a voice on its own affairs basically. And again, you can't say 'Its England's fault because they created the British empire', its creation through England was a pretty complex issue involving monarchs from both sides of the border and French and Tudor/Stuart influence, and Cromwell's financial ambitions through Usury debt.... nothing to do with the English peasant class of the day which are still being shafted today.

 

[J Ed]

Which political party do you most identify with, Binxie?

 

[classicdish]

There is no charity, to the best of my knowledge anyway, that supports English culture.

The vast bulk of BBC output is more-or-less "English" isn't it?

 

[Binxie]

Which political party do you most identify with, Binxie?

I don't really have one, they are all as bad as each other.

 

[Binxie]

The vast bulk of BBC output is more-or-less "English" isn't it?

The vast bulk of the BBC is bollocks, but yes I'll agree with you on that point, or at least London. I'll admit London is supported more than any other part of the UK, but at the cost of upsetting everyone outside of the M25.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Is this the Nationalist Brony? LOL Oh god waste your time with this fool.

Your culture means fuck all to me. Culture deosn't exist on crude ethno-national lines you fucking doofus.

 

[classicdish]

Ok. Wales has a Welsh Assembly, Welsh language groups and charities specifically for the Welsh.
Scotland has a Scottish Parliament, and again has charities for Scottish workshops to do with their culture etc.
Northern Ireland has an Assembly run by Sein Fein which rightly or wrongly, does not want British involvement any longer. (I say fair game to them.)

England has Westminster which all the other nations are actively allowed to participate in, but English politicians cannot influence votes in say, the Scottish Parliament.

Regional governments were proposed for English regions (which are roughly the same size as Wales/Scotland/NI):

...as power was to be devolved to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales without a counterweight in England, a series of referendums were planned to establish elected regional assemblies in some of the regions. The first was held in London in 1998 and was passed. The London Assembly and Mayor of London of the Greater London Authority were created in 2000. A referendum was held in North East England on 4 November 2004, but the proposal for an elected assembly was rejected. Plans to hold further referendums in other regions were first postponed and then cancelled. A campaign for the establishment of a Cornish assembly, including a petition to the UK government in 2001, was largely ignored and no referendum was held.[18] ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England#Regions_as_areas_of_administration

 

[Binxie]

Is this the Nationalist Brony? LOL Oh god waste your time with this fool.

Your culture means fuck all to me. Culture deosn't exist on crude ethno-national lines you fucking doofus.

Your opinion doesn't mean fuck all to me.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[xslavearcx]

He is. He just blows with the wind.

I would like to know where he gets the money from to stage these events though.

You could probably put something like that on for less than £100 given that it would only involve hiring a room and printing out a few leaflets..

 

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Regional governments were proposed for English regions (which are roughly the same size as Wales/Scotland/NI):

A campaign for the establishment of a Cornish assembly, including a petition to the UK government in 2001, was largely ignored and no referendum was held.[18] ...

and we ended up with a total fuck up of a unitary council instead.

 

[Binxie]

Regional governments were proposed for English regions (which are roughly the same size as Wales/Scotland/NI):

...as power was to be devolved to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales without a counterweight in England, a series of referendums were planned to establish elected regional assemblies in some of the regions. The first was held in London in 1998 and was passed. The London Assembly and Mayor of London of the Greater London Authority were created in 2000. A referendum was held in North East England on 4 November 2004, but the proposal for an elected assembly was rejected. Plans to hold further referendums in other regions were first postponed and then cancelled. A campaign for the establishment of a Cornish assembly, including a petition to the UK government in 2001, was largely ignored and no referendum was held.[18] ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England#Regions_as_areas_of_administration

Well this is news for me, thanks for the information. However it still doesn't prevent the lop-sided political landscape of the United Kingdom today, even if they did attempt and bodge up regional parliaments.

 

[toggle]

Is this the Nationalist Brony? LOL Oh god waste your time with this fool.

Your culture means fuck all to me. Culture deosn't exist on crude ethno-national lines you fucking doofus.

I think that it tends to mean more to minority groups who feel their unique cultural identity is being denied.

 

[xslavearcx]

I think that it tends to mean more to minority groups who feel their unique cultural identity is being denied.

Just out of interest toggle. Does that kinda thing get expressed in cornwall a lot?

 

[classicdish]

Your opinion doesn't mean fuck all to me.

Thanks for sharing.

You are being asked if you are this person: https://storify.com/asifandwhen/penny-vs-racist-brony ?

 

[classicdish]

Well this is news for me, thanks for the information. However it still doesn't prevent the lop-sided political landscape of the United Kingdom today, even if they did attempt and bodge up regional parliaments.

However English MPs have an overwhelming permanent majority in the UK-wide parliament, which balances things up surely?

 

[Binxie]

You are being asked if you are this person: https://storify.com/asifandwhen/penny-vs-racist-brony ?

No, that wasn't me. Although this Penny woman isn't exactly the best at portraying a professional image, is she.

 

[Binxie]

However English MPs have an overwhelming permanent majority in the UK-wide parliament, which balances things up surely?

Not really because there are a hell of a lot more tax payers in England than there are in other parts of the Union. Plus England (again unless you happen to live in London where jobs are arguably more aplenty) doesn't get any perks like free university education or free medicine prescriptions.