Costs of a web designer?

[Puddy_Tat]

I can always spend funding. We can always do a public awareness event with any underspend.

may depend on the terms of the grant - with some of these things, they are fairly prescriptive about what you can spend the grant on, and will expect to see physical results and maybe even to see proof you have spent that amount. (i've never really got involved from that end of a charity, but think it tends not just to be handing over a cheque and not take any more notice of it all.)

appreciate you don't want to get overloaded with sales pitches and so on, but wonder if talking to someone first, making it clear it's all only going to happen if you get this grant, might help you do a better grant application.

i guess it's a bit chicken and egg, not knowing what funding is available, not knowing what you're trying to specify, not knowing how much it's all going to cost.

grant funding tends to favour bigger charities or at least ones who've got someone who's good at applying for grants...

 

[Petcha]

You need to get together a rough 'wireframe' of your site. But 10k is high, even for the private sector, assuming this is going to be 5 or 6 pages. Dont get taken to the cleaners here. The design of the site is not going to be much. Specialised copywriting is going to be a more expensive. The video editing side will also set you back. You'll be looking at about £350 a day for both those skillsets. You'll be offered probably two rounds of changes if you do it on a flat rate project basis.

You can use free images through Wikimedia but you can get better royalty free images from shutterstock, adobe stock etc for peanuts really. I wouldn't worry about the price of the website. Squarespace or Wix are 'CMS' (content management system), so even my nana can update it these days. Wordpress is far more complicated and I wouldn't recommend that for your needs.

 

[not henry]

I need a house building. Im not sure whether it is a one or two story house. Also the number of rooms may or not be flexible. The finish is also negotiable etc etc.
This is analagous to what you are asking for.
Maybe use some of your tiny budget to commision someone to tell what your requirements actually are or alternatively listen to the free advice that you are getting on this thread

 

[Sue]

I need a house building. Im not sure whether it is a one or two story house. Also the number of rooms may or not be flexible. The finish is also negotiable etc etc.
This is analagous to what you are asking for.
Maybe use some of your tiny budget to commision someone to tell what your requirements actually are or alternatively listen to the free advice that you are getting on this thread

Someone's asking for help on something that's outside their comfort zone so really no need to be arsey.

 

[not henry]

Someone's asking for help on something that's outside their comfort zone so really no need to be arsey.

my apologies I really did not intend reply to be arsey

 

[friendofdorothy]

I need a house building. Im not sure whether it is a one or two story house. Also the number of rooms may or not be flexible. The finish is also negotiable etc etc.
This is analagous to what you are asking for.
Maybe use some of your tiny budget to commision someone to tell what your requirements actually are or alternatively listen to the free advice that you are getting on this thread

No it's not. My original post was fairly specific. No I don't know how many pages it needs exactly, but I do know it needs xy z and did say what it needed to contain (now deleted for anonymity) in my original post

using your analogy, if I said how much for a family sized house in south London, roughly speaking, I would hope someone would say you are looking at min £500,000, and if you look in this area £x or newbuild £x . That level of detail

Ive put together a really rough budget up thread and asked if it looks plausible there seems to be dis agreement if it does or not.

Its very rough but it's enough for the application. If I am successful in getting funding I will cut my cloth accordingly. I'll write a detailed brief and get more than one quote. But I don't need to worry about that level of detail yet and I'm not interested in what software they use.

 

[friendofdorothy]

You need to get together a rough 'wireframe' of your site. But 10k is high, even for the private sector, assuming this is going to be 5 or 6 pages. Dont get taken to the cleaners here.

Thanks for you reply.
No idea what a wireframe is. Do I really need to know or is that the web designers job?

I said I can apply for a max of £10k not that I want to spend that much on a designer alone. I indicated that writing, filming and admin are also needed plus on going costs for a few years. colacubes suggested her project was just under £10k?

The design of the site is not going to be much. Specialised copywriting is going to be a more expensive. The video editing side will also set you back. You'll be looking at about £350 a day for both those skillsets. You'll be offered probably two rounds of changes if you do it on a flat rate project basis.

You said my rough budget is totally off - any further thoughts. Which bits are off? Less for the design and more for the content creation? I want to keep the budget as general or rough as possible at this stage.

£3000 for the web design
£2000 for writing / editing/ proofing
£1000 for creating video content
£500 for admin support

£600 for 3 years web hosting
£1500 for 3 years of £500pa updating

£8600 total

Than I could put in £1200 for a logo some badges and flyers

I remembered I need to include some other none web related volunteer costs and a contingency fund as well, so I'll have to trim all those figures above a bit. Maybe only put in for 2 years updating and hosting.

You can use free images through Wikimedia but you can get better royalty free images from shutterstock, adobe stock etc for peanuts really. I wouldn't worry about the price of the website. Squarespace or Wix are 'CMS' (content management system), so even my nana can update it these days. Wordpress is far more complicated and I wouldn't recommend that for your needs.

I don't think we need stock photos, we have some originals and our campaign won't lend itself to generic images, but we do need permissions to reproduce newspaper articles and TV content about our campaign, or at least to link to them

The "cost of the website" needs to be met, even if it's peanuts - someone said £200 a year? ie £600 for 3 years. Not peanuts to a cash strapped charity.

No matter how much you say it's really easy to update, unless skilled volunteers or staff magically appear, I'll have to pay someone to do it. Unless your nana wants to volunteer of course.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Someone's asking for help on something that's outside their comfort zone so really no need to be arsey.

Thanks Sue

Commissing work is well within my comfort zone. I used to be a commissioning designer for print when dinosaurs roamed the earth. My knowledge about website costs, was zero. My interest in the technicalities of the software used and the method of site construction is very low.

It is to promote an important message about social injustice and how people who are facing that can get help. It's important cause dear to my heart that I have spent what could be a full time job timewise, for nearly two years on promoting and campaigning for change on this issue.

I'm interested in getting the message across whether that's in a half hour TV doc, a disscussion with local councillors, a podcast, one to one with the public or on a 3 or 10 page website its all the same to me . It's the message that counts - not the media.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Thanks to all who have replied here it's been helpful.

 

[Petcha]

Thanks for you reply.
No idea what a wireframe is. Do I really need to know or is that the web designers job?

I said I can apply for a max of £10k not that I want to spend that much on a designer alone. I indicated that writing, filming and admin are also needed plus on going costs for a few years. colacubes suggested her project was just under £10k?


You said my rough budget is totally off - any further thoughts. Which bits are off? Less for the design and more for the content creation? I want to keep the budget as general or rough as possible at this stage.

I remembered I need to include some other none web related volunteer costs and a contingency fund as well, so I'll have to trim all those figures above a bit. Maybe only put in for 2 years updating and hosting.


I don't think we need stock photos, we have some originals and our campaign won't lend itself to generic images, but we do need permissions to reproduce newspaper articles and TV content about our campaign, or at least to link to them

The "cost of the website" needs to be met, even if it's peanuts - someone said £200 a year? ie £600 for 3 years. Not peanuts to a cash strapped charity.

No matter how much you say it's really easy to update, unless skilled volunteers or staff magically appear, I'll have to pay someone to do it. Unless your nana wants to volunteer of course.

When I said peanuts, I meant the actual design of it if you use a CMS like Squarespace. If you use them yeh, you'd be paying about £200 a year. Alternatively you can use someone like GoDaddy which is more like £80 but a lot more work on the design side. I think you said you already own the domain?

I'd take Editor up on his offer of a coffee and chat, he must know his stuff. A wireframe is simply putting together some boxes showing the pages you'd like on there, which will be reflected in your navigation (homepage, about us, contact us etc)

 

[friendofdorothy]

I'd take Editor up on his offer of a coffee and chat, he must know his stuff. A wireframe is simply putting together some boxes showing the pages you'd like on there, which will be reflected in your navigation (homepage, about us, contact us etc)

Thanks.

Organising the information /navigation is definitely part of the webdesign job. Like I say I want to get a message across - a good designer should know how to organise that.

So in what way was the rough budget for my funding application 'way off'?

 

[friendofdorothy]

In graphic design I used to do a similar thing to 'wireframe' cant even remember what that was called it was so long ago. (was it minutures? page plan? ffs what was that called? there were preprinted layout pads available for that purpose)

I always hated it when a client came to me with half a design, first thing I had to do was be polite then completely rework it to look/ work better.
eg They might say I want all this text on the cover and I would say - this photo + simple header could convey that message with a better visual impact. They might say they wanted a leaflet A4 folded twice down to A6 size and I would have to point out that a gate fold DL format would be easier for volunteers to post out - that sort of thing.

I love the design of this website Revolting Gays but I wouldn't say design it like that, as I know that have no idea of the software or complexity involved in designing that.

 

[editor]

I love the design of this website Revolting Gays but I wouldn't say design it like that, as I know that have no idea of the software or complexity involved in designing that.

It looks nice but fails on accessibility issues.

https://www.accessibilitychecker.org/audit/?website=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revoltinggays.com%2F&flag=uk

 

[Petcha]

You're probably thinking of a flatplan, which is used in publishing - its essentially the same thing. And yeh, being a designer is shit. The client/content owner is the first to claim the credit when it lands well when in actual fact the designer has spent many late nights trying to polish the turd of shit we've been sent. I would love to leave the industry but by my age im typecast. I can't really change course.

In saying that, I've just spent the last hour or so playing with generative AI in photoshop for that charity I posted above, putting really random people in next to the pics of Llamas in the snow. Worse jobs.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Thanks for you reply.
No idea what a wireframe is. Do I really need to know or is that the web designers job?

I said I can apply for a max of £10k not that I want to spend that much on a designer alone. I indicated that writing, filming and admin are also needed plus on going costs for a few years. colacubes suggested her project was just under £10k?


You said my rough budget is totally off - any further thoughts. Which bits are off? Less for the design and more for the content creation? I want to keep the budget as general or rough as possible at this stage.

I remembered I need to include some other none web related volunteer costs and a contingency fund as well, so I'll have to trim all those figures above a bit. Maybe only put in for 2 years updating and hosting.


I don't think we need stock photos, we have some originals and our campaign won't lend itself to generic images, but we do need permissions to reproduce newspaper articles and TV content about our campaign, or at least to link to them

The "cost of the website" needs to be met, even if it's peanuts - someone said £200 a year? ie £600 for 3 years. Not peanuts to a cash strapped charity.

No matter how much you say it's really easy to update, unless skilled volunteers or staff magically appear, I'll have to pay someone to do it. Unless your nana wants to volunteer of course.

The idea of paying someone to manage / update is not appealing in terms of cost and convenience, but having said that, it's another area where bigger organisations with a 'communications team' are in a better position than a small organisation where volunteer X does the website. (and they are in a better position than one where there isn't even a volunteer X to start with.)

If volunteer X dies, moves away, has major work or family commitments or whatever, you can then be stuck. And I'm aware of a few cases where volunteer X has fallen out with the management committee and has been difficult about it all.

A website that shows 'latest news' from years ago, or a 'coming event' from way in the past doesn't inspire confidence.

A smaller organisation may get round this to some extent by keeping the website relatively static and putting out news / events up on social media (although not everyone who does the internet also does social media) - although it's best if these are all managed (even if not physically done) by the same person to avoid mixed messages / conflicting information.

Having run a website for a volunteer organisation (and while I fell out with the management committee, i think i handled the hand-over with reasonable professionalism) it's worth trying to avoid situations where the (paid or volunteer) designer / maintainer is getting too many conflicting instructions from too many people. clear lines of responsibility / communication are a good thing here.

i had occasions where one committee member would sulk if i didn't use their photograph for whatever, different people wanting everything to be on the front page or complaining there was too much on the front page, and different people coming up with this week's new official house colour for it all. aaaaargh.

 

[friendofdorothy]

The idea of paying someone to manage / update is not appealing in terms of cost and convenience, but having said that, it's another area where bigger organisations with a 'communications team' are in a better position than a small organisation where volunteer X does the website. (and they are in a better position than one where there isn't even a volunteer X to start with.)

If volunteer X dies, moves away, has major work or family commitments or whatever, you can then be stuck. And I'm aware of a few cases where volunteer X has fallen out with the management committee and has been difficult about it all.

A website that shows 'latest news' from years ago, or a 'coming event' from way in the past doesn't inspire confidence.

A smaller organisation may get round this to some extent by keeping the website relatively static and putting out news / events up on social media (although not everyone who does the internet also does social media) - although it's best if these are all managed (even if not physically done) by the same person to avoid mixed messages / conflicting information.

Having run a website for a volunteer organisation (and while I fell out with the management committee, i think i handled the hand-over with reasonable professionalism) it's worth trying to avoid situations where the (paid or volunteer) designer / maintainer is getting too many conflicting instructions from too many people. clear lines of responsibility / communication are a good thing here.

i had occasions where one committee member would sulk if i didn't use their photograph for whatever, different people wanting everything to be on the front page or complaining there was too much on the front page, and different people coming up with this week's new official house colour for it all. aaaaargh.

This is why i'm thinking of it as a fairly static resource / info / signposting site only. No news, upcoming events and no 'contact us' page. Would only need occasional updates as new resources / research become available or such. We have a new instagram coms volunteer - so there could be a link to insta for news maybe.

Fortunately as we are so small an organisation we have avoided infighting - we are all just too busy.

 

[friendofdorothy]

It looks nice but fails on accessibility issues.

https://www.accessibilitychecker.org/audit/?website=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revoltinggays.com%2F&flag=uk

Thanks that is useful to know

 

[editor]

This is why i'm thinking of it as a fairly static resource / info / signposting site only. No news, upcoming events and no 'contact us' page. Would only need occasional updates as new resources / research become available or such. We have a new instagram coms volunteer - so there could be a link to insta for news maybe.

Fortunately as we are so small an organisation we have avoided infighting - we are all just too busy.

You can embed Instagram posts on any page of the website so that can provide an easy way to add the latest news etc.

 

[kalmatthew]

i had occasions where one committee member would sulk if i didn't use their photograph for whatever, different people wanting everything to be on the front page or complaining there was too much on the front page, and different people coming up with this week's new official house colour for it all. aaaaargh.

Can't help with the Web design but this bit is worth repeating, I work in professional services and multiple client stakeholders with different inputs is a really good way to blow a budget. I'd suggest if you can having one point of contact to whoever you pick so hours don't get wasted in doing and undoing work.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Can't help with the Web design but this bit is worth repeating, I work in professional services and multiple client stakeholders with different inputs is a really good way to blow a budget. I'd suggest if you can having one point of contact to whoever you pick so hours don't get wasted in doing and undoing work.

thanks

 

[friendofdorothy]

Bid and budget written now. Thanks everyone.l

 

[Silas Loom]

Good luck! Well done if the bid is successful, and if not, no reflection on you - every fund-disbursing organisation is mad and capricious in its own unique way.

 

[weltweit]

Hi friendofdorothy

While you can get a website of sorts created for £1-3k, the people who will do that for you will probably not be there to help you with updates down the line because they will likely have gone out of business.

I think your later estimates of perhaps £3-5k for a website build are about right and imply you won't have to go to a one man band but could go to an agency of sorts.

I am assuming you want a brochureware type website. Pages which include photos and explain what you do with a contact page with a contact form.

You will have to plan and create the website contents, text and perhaps images (although they can be sourced if you don't have any).. it will be between you and your agency how many pages there are.

They should deal with domains, and hosting and the like. I would opt for a standard HTML website, they are easier to manage should you need to update things or change developer. You could consider a wordpress site which are relatively easy to update.

Best of luck with it.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

You could consider a wordpress site which are relatively easy to update.

at wordpretzel.

it would be even easier if they didn't keep changing how you do things. (I used to run a wordpress site for an annual event, so largely let it do its own thing for 10 months of the year, then had to try and work out how to update it for that year's event)