COP 21 reportage and political discussion thread (not climate change discussion generally)

[LDC]

I don't count the success of a demo by its size. Leave that to the trots.

NVDA in small affinity groups doing media friendly stunts will make the papers and inspire others.

I hear there's been lots of people there for a while.

This is an opportunity to energise the movement (it's not my fight by I'm a supporter). The A to B marches inspire few people and depress many more.

Not wanting this to degenerate into an "I said this/you said that" kinda thing, but I think those points aren't that related to my concerns, nor are a particularly useful analysis of what's going on IMO.

And while I'm here: I don't count success as simply about numbers, but to deny numbers are important is foolish. Small affinity groups doing media friendly stunts can equally not make the papers and disempower others. I'm not arguing for an A to B march am I?

Anyway, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

[DrRingDing]

A to B marches are the only thing the 'moderates' and NGOs you mentioned will participate in. You put value on that.

Things will kick off on big marches like that. I remember when the anticapitalist European actions were at there peak. The world wildlife fund, elderly Christian groups and all sorts were getting tear gasses with everyone else. I fact there is more likely to be violence on those marches than at the direct actions that will happen.

 

[LDC]

A to B marches are the only thing the 'moderates' and NGOs you mentioned will participate in. You put value on that.

That's not all they're doing. And yeah to some extent I do put value on a broad based movement with a variety of people doing a variety of things.

Anyway, I don't mean to be as antagonistic as I might be seeming. I do hope things go well, CC is an absolutely critical issue.

 

[LDC]

The world wildlife fund, elderly Christian groups and all sorts were getting tear gasses with everyone else.

I love seeing Christians and liberals getting battered by the cops.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Are there any plans for additional marches in different countries? I'd be up for going to Westminster, no way can get to Paris

 

[LDC]

Are there any plans for additional marches in different countries? I'd be up for going to Westminster, no way can get to Paris

There's a march in London on November 29th, not sure about anything else.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Might be worth adding to op

Campaign against Climate Change

 

[LDC]

I know it's not a well argued point but "FUCK OFF WITH TRYING TO TURN POLITICS INTO YOUR ART PROJECT."
To the (inflatable) barricades!

 

[Pickman's model]

Might be worth adding to op

Campaign against Climate Change

cacc for short

 

[stavros]

Kudos to Hollande, Hidalgo, Valls et al for going ahead with it all as planned after the last fortnight.

Let's just hope that something worthwhile comes out of it all, although I won't hold my breath.

 

[teqniq]

I know the conspiracy theorists will be crawling all over this like flies on dogshit but in terms of the climate conference and planned demos the timing of the Paris attacks could not have been worse.

Under House Arrest, a Climate Activist Waits Out the Paris Conference

 

[Artaxerxes]

Fantastic posters up in Paris

Brandalism

Paris Is Covered In Fake Ads That Mock the Climate Talks' Corporate Sponsors

 

[teqniq]

OCCUPY_friday: Australia's #ClimateAngels place themselves between French riot cops & #COP21 protesters

#auspol @ClimateGuardia

 

[LDC]

Blurgh.

 

[teqniq]

?

 

[LDC]

Inserting even more moral religious toned drivel into the debate is not really to be encouraged IMO.

And IME those people dressed as angels are exactly the type of liberals that start bleating at the first sign of anything that isn't some 'media friendly' symbolic protest.

But I admit I could be thought of as a bit of a miserablist.

 

[LDC]

Five questions for the climate movement...
The Hamilton Institute › Five Questions for the Climate Movement

And some commentary from Novara...
COPing out: what will it take to overcome the environmental movement’s impasse?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Another demo on Saturday, with the floods oop North and the smog in India and China seems like a good time to stand up and try and get governments to listen.

Well aware they probably won't.

 

[teqniq]

Quelle surprise

Saudi Arabia accused of 'blocking' climate change deal

 

[stavros]

You would hope that, although not champions of the concept, the Saudis et al may get overridden by democracy. Hope, but not expect.

 

[Artaxerxes]

You would hope that, although not champions of the concept, the Saudis et al may get overridden by democracy. Hope, but not expect.

In emergency: roll out British supplied army

 

[Bernie Gunther]

 

[LDC]

It's been very, very quiet for coverage of any protests or actions hasn't it? Wonder what's been going on.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think this is the final draft text

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2015/cop21/eng/l09.pdf

 

[stavros]

I get so frustrated by the discussions of historical, future and current responsibilities and emissions. Fuck economic competition; surely this issue stomps all over it.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Agreement has been adopted apparently.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

New Scientist have a live blog.

Live blog from the Paris climate summit

 

[ska invita]

Anyone got any thoughts on the agreement? Looks like a lot of hot air to me... Is there anything there with teeth?

 

[teqniq]

'Father of climate change' says the Paris deal is 'just bull***t'

 

[Bernie Gunther]

As far as I can tell, it's a target without agreement on any realistic mechanism for achieving that target.

I mean it's nice that they have a target, but ...