COP 21 reportage and political discussion thread (not climate change discussion generally)

[LDC]

Starting this as a place to post relevant news and discuss the political issues around the COP21 and the counter-mobilizations due to start in Paris soon.

• Wikipedia background on the Paris climate talks 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Official talks website COP21 | United nations conference on climate change
• One of the more direct action counter-mobilisations in the form of 'climate games' Home - Climate Games

 

[LDC]

Some thought about the Paris mobilizations in the current situation ‘This Changes Everything’: What the Paris attacks mean for the climate protests

 

[Pickman's model]

i can't say anything with cop in the title files me with confidence.

 

[LDC]

How about anti-COP? I can't say anything with the word 'games' in makes me that hopeful. They'll be fucking clowns next. (That could read really badly.)

 

[DotCommunist]

contemporary ritual clowns only

 

[LDC]

Paris climate summit march in doubt after talks deadlock

 

[butchersapron]

i can't say anything with cop in the title files me with confidence.

Cop shoots cop?

 

[Flavour]

ACAB

 

[stavros]

I haven't seen much of it in the UK press, whilst Le Monde has had loads on it, at least up until Friday.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I haven't seen much of it in the UK press, whilst Le Monde has had loads on it, at least up until Friday.

You don't expect the UK press to actually report on things do you?

 

[DrRingDing]

Comment on the attacks by the Climate Games Response to the recent attacks - Climate Games

 

[stavros]

You don't expect the UK press to actually report on things do you?

Not for a large part of the denialist big-sellers (the Mail and the Telegraph), but I thought the Digger was a convert to the green agenda, and I'd certainly expect more from the Graun and the Indie. I guess in the last week its been superseded by particularly venomous hatred of anyone different, and may suffer from coinciding with the build up to Christmas.

I'm not expecting a whole lot from the conference to be honest. It helps that there's still a Democrat in Washington, but I don't think anything will stand in the way of the four or five year electoral cycle and the holy grail of "growth".

 

[shaman75]

Guardian reporting public demonstrations will not be authorised.

COP21 climate marches in Paris not authorised following attacks

 

[LDC]

Comment on the attacks by the Climate Games Response to the recent attacks - Climate Games

That's a pretty weak piece of writing IMO. (Actually it looks like it's been edited from last night.)

 

[DrRingDing]

That's a pretty weak piece of writing IMO. (Actually it looks like it's been edited from last night.)

What's your beef?

 

[LDC]

A trite and predictable statement for 'all the victims of terror', the simplistic idea that everything (climate change and terrorism) are all reducible to one singular common cause, and a lack of argument as to why going to Paris in the current situation is a risk and complication worth taking.

And the delusional idea that the games could be some alternative to the State of Emergency is pretty fucked-up. Not to mention the amount of times they've now squeezed 'non-violent' in there, and the assumption that it's really crucial to the climate discussion that activists run around playing some 'games' cloaked in some sub-par poetic nonsense about being nature defending itself.

 

[LDC]

What's your beef?

I'm pretty wary that the decision to go and possibly do what's been planned will be taken by some people who have been very wrapped up in putting lots of time and energy into the events, and they might be less than objective about coming to a sensible decision as to the best course of action.

I'm not against going at all, but I do think it needs to be thought through really, really careful so as not to create a bigger mess and damage any climate activism in the long run. Just saying we can't let fear stop us, or that we refuse to obey the State doesn't cut it IMO.

 

[DrRingDing]

What do you propose they don't do?

 

[LDC]

What do you propose they don't do?

I don't have a proposal, but I think some discussion about what to do would be sensible. Although I do suggest running about in black wearing masks is probably not wise.

 

[LDC]

"The decentralised creative nature of the Climate Games could become the alternative nonviolent response to this state of emergency." (From the Climate Games reponse to Paris attacks.)

Really?

 

[DrRingDing]

I don't have a proposal, but I think some discussion about what to do would be sensible. Although I do suggest running about in black wearing masks is probably not wise.

'Running around in black masks' is not at all what the Climate Games are.

Sure there will be an international mobilisation that will probably in part be using some black block tactics but that is not the Climate Games nor is it anything we can control.

All you can do with use a few anarkids to tar the whole movement with the same brush. Which is what I believe you are after doing.

 

[LDC]

No, I know they're not, but it will be/would have been an element of what was/is likely to happen in Paris. So I'm talking about the wider event, not just the Climate Games.

And don't get me wrong or jump to conclusions about what I'm doing, I'm not flat out against going. I'm just unsure and interested as to whether the recent events should change the mobilization or not, and if so how.

DrRingDing, do you think nothing about the mobilization should change, and that it should just all go ahead as planned?

 

[DrRingDing]

DrRingDing, do you think nothing about the mobilization should change, and that it should just all go ahead as planned?

A week is a long time in politics. The political climate will have changed, the real climate will not. I strongly believe that the democratic process should not be suspended especially when that only benefits IS and the state.

Didn't you say you come from Leeds?....and that you were working class? If so, you would probably be rightly alienated with the eco-hippie movement there. Personal grudges should not get in the way of this important issue.

 

[LDC]

Not sure I said either of those things? Yeah, I agree things could well have shifted again in a few weeks. Interested to see how this develops. I think I'll hold off buying my tickets for the moment though.

And yes, fair point re: personal grudges/issues, I am aware that the over-bearing sense of self-importance and smugness coming from some of the climate activists possibly colors my opinion a bit, but I do try to not let it!

 

[LDC]

A contribution from Naomi Klein on the subject of the talks/demos/banning... What’s really at stake at the Paris climate conference now marches are banned | Naomi Klein

 

[Artaxerxes]

A contribution from Naomi Klein on the subject of the talks/demos/banning... What’s really at stake at the Paris climate conference now marches are banned | Naomi Klein

Reading her climate book atm, it's powerful stuff.

 

[LDC]

Reading that book is on my list, although Naomi Klein...

So, one of the concerns I have about going to Paris 'as planned' is this...

I think to some extent the strength (maybe more potential than actual though atm...) of the climate movement is its size and potential for the movement to generalize and start making demands (or taking power) around the issue of CC. For me this was in some part going to hopefully be expressed on the streets of Paris with these mobilizations. And within the mobilization the lines between radicals and more moderate elements would be hard to work out, giving the radicals hopefully more power than they might actually have in reality, but anyway showing a large angry street presence on the issue of CC overall.

I'm concerned that with the NGOs and other more moderate elements not going (or changing their plans dramatically), then radicals that do go (whatever their reasoning is) will actually lose a fair amount of power by being quite a small number of people on the streets, rather than an unidentifiable political grouping within a much, much larger mobilization. So rather than having an event that's massive, inspiring, and hopefully influential, they'll be a very small, easily policed, and politically weak mobilization that might make the CC movement less potentially important that it could (and needs) to be.

So, a strategic decision not to go rather than go and appear weak and marginalized.

But happy to be told this is bollocks and I'm totally on the wrong track!

 

[DrRingDing]

The Climate Games will not be easily policed....that's by design.

Frankly, fuck the liberals.

 

[LDC]

The Climate Games will not be easily policed....that's by design.

Frankly, fuck the liberals.

I agree not easily policed if they're one element of a much bigger mobilization, but do you really think they'll be that big? I was chatting to a few people and we thought 1,000 would be optimistic?

Yeah, fuck the liberals for sure. But what if they provide a sea in which to swim, and a current to influence, yet they're not there? Like I said, trying to work this shit out, not thrown my hand in one way or another yet.

 

[DrRingDing]

I don't count the success of a demo by its size. Leave that to the trots.

NVDA in small affinity groups doing media friendly stunts will make the papers and inspire others.

I hear there's been lots of people there for a while.

This is an opportunity to energise the movement (it's not my fight by I'm a supporter). The A to B marches inspire few people and depress many more.