hipipol
Peckham Wry
Motivated/Provoked by a claim made by an American poster under a Youtube vid showing Russian conscripts digging their way thru a pile of rusty AKs, the American observer claimed there was no link to the experiences of call up victims in Ukraine and in Vietnam, that the USA had done their nonsense for good reason but the salient factor for them was that the USA "Takes care of its own" - in the American experience this idea is based on the claim by the Marines that they never left a colleague on the battle field, that they took care of their own. This is very much a personal recollection of events but I think does show the Western Imperialist impulse,and the way Fathers prepare their sons to pick up the Imperialist mantle get ready for their turn with the "necessary" burden which I suspect mirrors that in Russia today closely, other than the lack of minded Imperialist allies the USA had during Vietnam, as I wite this I wonder should it really be in some theorectical forum? But conscription is not a theorectical experience for those who suffer it. Anyway, Y'er Tis
Wed, 9 Nov at 23:46
I grew up in Hong Kong in the 60s and 70s , my Dad worked in a senior role for GCHQ, the UKs equivalent to the USA's NSA, he ran the crypto and translations arm in HK, when I was 10 my best friend at school, run by the British Army, was Alan whose Dad was No 2 in charge of the CIA station in HK. The Western spying community there knew each other - including the Australian Military Intelligence boss, who lived 300 metres from my family, his twin boys were loons. We heard a lot we should not have. We heard about the secret bombings, Cambodia and Laos, the CIAs airline that support and supplied various rebel hill tribes - all the Dads admired them, contrasting their morale with that of the Western troops. The US forces in Vietnam were certainly better trained than Russias current crop of reluctant conscripts but all bar the Marines and the Australians were seen as being ill disciplined and poorly lead on the ground, that logistics were badly disorganized, that no one trusted the Vietnamese, the S Vietnam Govt were murderously corrupt, that the US troops were often addicted to heroin, some supplied free by the North Vietnamese Govt, much of it processed in China, but mainly flown from Burma/North Thailand in the CIAs secret airline, but we heard very little of that just that Alans Dad had been on a few flights on it, I watched my old mans home movies of B52's taking off from Guam to bomb Laos, the U2's flying and spying also Alans Dad liked my Dads resticted eyes and ears training programme of fast track Mandarin for Intellegence Applications that all three countries used...etc, etc. All 3 did not mind their sons hearing this, all 3 wanted us to grow up to be good intelligence officers. You did not take care of your own. It was widely known that the mental health of the troops was awful, drug addiction, depression, suicide, self harm were common - very little was done to help. Later in the war, 73ish, the Dads group had broken up, reposted to different duties, we spent a year back in UK, then the old man got promoted, to second in overall command Casual abuse of local civilians was accepted as normal, torture, murder and rape were used as tools to terrorize the locals seeking info about the VC, the Army had a budget to pay bribes to cover up the murder of prostitutes in Thailand, the closest R&R location to Vietnam - Thailand has never really recovered from this. I held the hand of a Marine Major as he wept uncontrollably on a bench in front of the Star Ferry, he in full dress uniform, me in school uniform, on my way home from Kowloon Tong to Stanley, Island side, he was on his way back to the war, he had two sons round my age, he'd never see them again he was sure, maybe it was better, cos the things he'd done, they could never have pride in their Father. I ended up weeping with him. Cultural Revolution riots had calmed down a lot, but the War went on. Black American sailors being defended by Australian and Brit sailors as a US shore Patrol abused and beat them for being Black, the OZ and Brit guys were white. The Shore Patrol got battered, our Heros all shook hands, gave hugs etc, then ran off before the cops arrived. No, you definately did not take care of your own. I saw all of this with my own eyes and so cannot be convinced by the propoganda as you seem to have been. I suspect people in Sebastopol have a good idea of whats really going on, but those in Vladivostok will be taken in by the offical stories, as were US citizens back home and away from the actual fighting. In late 73 we came back to the UK, a kid, Lance, at my new schools Dad was a US fighter pilot at Upper Heyford. I talked to him about Credence, CCR were huge in HK, his brother Chet gave us both a lift in his 69 Chevvy with a cartridge tape player and lots of CCR. I ended up better buddies with Chet, Lance was too strait laced. Chet and I would drive around singing, well wailing really, Fortunate Son mainly. He had to go back to Baton Rouge cos he had his papers and was accepting. I suggested he tried Sweden. He said he couldnt take it is he could never go home. Last time I saw him he told me CCR were actually from California, "But at least their singing about us" He never came back from Vietnam. I'd known him less than a year, but I blubbed like a baby whan Lance told me, he was just a really funny, warm hearted guy. a few yers, 3 I think older than me, he was the kind of big brother I'd have liked to have. He was able to see the train wreck comin for most of his life, he saw older friends going off, not returning. The Russians may have worse equipment, but the effect is the same, young men lied to, then sent off to die for the Empires idiotic power lust. So no, you did not take care of Chet, just as you didnt takes care off all those who went before him, as Putin will not help their boys
Wed, 9 Nov at 23:46
I grew up in Hong Kong in the 60s and 70s , my Dad worked in a senior role for GCHQ, the UKs equivalent to the USA's NSA, he ran the crypto and translations arm in HK, when I was 10 my best friend at school, run by the British Army, was Alan whose Dad was No 2 in charge of the CIA station in HK. The Western spying community there knew each other - including the Australian Military Intelligence boss, who lived 300 metres from my family, his twin boys were loons. We heard a lot we should not have. We heard about the secret bombings, Cambodia and Laos, the CIAs airline that support and supplied various rebel hill tribes - all the Dads admired them, contrasting their morale with that of the Western troops. The US forces in Vietnam were certainly better trained than Russias current crop of reluctant conscripts but all bar the Marines and the Australians were seen as being ill disciplined and poorly lead on the ground, that logistics were badly disorganized, that no one trusted the Vietnamese, the S Vietnam Govt were murderously corrupt, that the US troops were often addicted to heroin, some supplied free by the North Vietnamese Govt, much of it processed in China, but mainly flown from Burma/North Thailand in the CIAs secret airline, but we heard very little of that just that Alans Dad had been on a few flights on it, I watched my old mans home movies of B52's taking off from Guam to bomb Laos, the U2's flying and spying also Alans Dad liked my Dads resticted eyes and ears training programme of fast track Mandarin for Intellegence Applications that all three countries used...etc, etc. All 3 did not mind their sons hearing this, all 3 wanted us to grow up to be good intelligence officers. You did not take care of your own. It was widely known that the mental health of the troops was awful, drug addiction, depression, suicide, self harm were common - very little was done to help. Later in the war, 73ish, the Dads group had broken up, reposted to different duties, we spent a year back in UK, then the old man got promoted, to second in overall command Casual abuse of local civilians was accepted as normal, torture, murder and rape were used as tools to terrorize the locals seeking info about the VC, the Army had a budget to pay bribes to cover up the murder of prostitutes in Thailand, the closest R&R location to Vietnam - Thailand has never really recovered from this. I held the hand of a Marine Major as he wept uncontrollably on a bench in front of the Star Ferry, he in full dress uniform, me in school uniform, on my way home from Kowloon Tong to Stanley, Island side, he was on his way back to the war, he had two sons round my age, he'd never see them again he was sure, maybe it was better, cos the things he'd done, they could never have pride in their Father. I ended up weeping with him. Cultural Revolution riots had calmed down a lot, but the War went on. Black American sailors being defended by Australian and Brit sailors as a US shore Patrol abused and beat them for being Black, the OZ and Brit guys were white. The Shore Patrol got battered, our Heros all shook hands, gave hugs etc, then ran off before the cops arrived. No, you definately did not take care of your own. I saw all of this with my own eyes and so cannot be convinced by the propoganda as you seem to have been. I suspect people in Sebastopol have a good idea of whats really going on, but those in Vladivostok will be taken in by the offical stories, as were US citizens back home and away from the actual fighting. In late 73 we came back to the UK, a kid, Lance, at my new schools Dad was a US fighter pilot at Upper Heyford. I talked to him about Credence, CCR were huge in HK, his brother Chet gave us both a lift in his 69 Chevvy with a cartridge tape player and lots of CCR. I ended up better buddies with Chet, Lance was too strait laced. Chet and I would drive around singing, well wailing really, Fortunate Son mainly. He had to go back to Baton Rouge cos he had his papers and was accepting. I suggested he tried Sweden. He said he couldnt take it is he could never go home. Last time I saw him he told me CCR were actually from California, "But at least their singing about us" He never came back from Vietnam. I'd known him less than a year, but I blubbed like a baby whan Lance told me, he was just a really funny, warm hearted guy. a few yers, 3 I think older than me, he was the kind of big brother I'd have liked to have. He was able to see the train wreck comin for most of his life, he saw older friends going off, not returning. The Russians may have worse equipment, but the effect is the same, young men lied to, then sent off to die for the Empires idiotic power lust. So no, you did not take care of Chet, just as you didnt takes care off all those who went before him, as Putin will not help their boys
