Classic car shows and motoring museums

[ViolentPanda]

I've been to a lot of classic car and motorcycle shows in the last 30 years, as well as a few of the well-known motor museums, and I've come to realise that every time I pay such a visit I come away feeling exasperated, even more now than I did 20 or 10 years ago.

Why do I get exasperated? It's because at a lot of classic car shows, the car-owners barely drive their classics, they keep them in concours condition, and generally store them under tarps, and trailer them to and from the shows. A minority of classic owners do drive their beauties, and invariably get looked down on by the rest.

So, which side of the fence do you come down on - the "drive your classic, it's a car, for fuck's sake" side, or the "pamper the little darling and put less than 50 miles on the clock per year" side?

 

[plurker]

I've mates on the dub scene who trailer their 59 bug to and from the barn where it's stored to the shows and back - I think there's no point, if you own and love a car you should love to drive it.

My own car, while far from a 'classic' in most people's eyes, is 27 years old and I'm restoring it bit by bit - it's not a daily but she's used as a car, not an ornament.

 

[Dovydaitis]

we were at Trucks and Troops, Beaulieu this weekend and drove down (albeit at a max speed of 45mph) in our 1956 willys jeep. We did trailer the Austin 10 down but that was because the brakes need some work (booked in for this week) but yes, some very pretentious people who do look down on you for actually driving your vehicle

 

[Bakunin]

Classic car shows do contain their fair share of people who, despite cars actually being intended for driving, don't actually drive them anywhere. But it's only at classic car shows that you're likely to even catch a glimpse of something as outright stunning as the Jaguar XJ13, IMHO:

And at least at those shows you'll never be exposed to the kind of Godless barbarian that would buy a Jaguar XK150 and take it banger racing:

 

[mauvais]

I once read the thread (Pistonheads?) about that banger racer and came away thinking fair play to the chap.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

My grandfather used to have one of these but sold it. Years later, I saw what looked like his car at the Lambeth Country Show (when they used to show cars)

 

[ViolentPanda]

My grandfather used to have one of these but sold it. Years later, I saw what looked like his car at the Lambeth Country Show (when they used to show cars)

They did Metropolitans in a variety of really horrid two-tone paint jobs. "Gold" over white, fire engine red over white, hospital green over white, bathroom suite blue over white. It was horrendous!
Nash tried exporting them to the US as "women's cars" but they didn't sell too well.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

They did Metropolitans in a variety of really horrid two-tone paint jobs. "Gold" over white, fire engine red over white, hospital green over white, bathroom suite blue over white. It was horrendous!
Nash tried exporting them to the US as "women's cars" but they didn't sell too well.

My grandfather's was the cream/yellow and white one.

He got one of the first ones sold in this country

 

[moose]

I say drive 'em. I've had cars that people have said 'Oooh, pit it away in dry storage for a few years, it'll be worth a fortune when you bring it out', but I'm not interested, would rather enjoy them.

I don't like it when they tidy cars up before putting them in museums, either. My favourite, at the VW Autostadt in Wolfsburg, has cars with rust spots, oil leaks and stone chips, and some of them are less 'tidy' than cars I've owned.

 

[DownwardDog]

They did Metropolitans in a variety of really horrid two-tone paint jobs. "Gold" over white, fire engine red over white, hospital green over white, bathroom suite blue over white. It was horrendous!
Nash tried exporting them to the US as "women's cars" but they didn't sell too well.

Zippy the Pinhead drives one, so there's one endorsement.

I always had a sniffy disdain for people who didn't drive their classic cars. Until I owned them and came to know the vast amount of time, energy and money it took to get them right. I've had my Pantera on the track a few times but I'd rather walk on broken legs that drive it into the city or park it at the supermarket.

 

[zenie]

Drive 'em I do...current car isn't over 25 years yet but the oldies were great, except for the scary brakes. I think I might get a triumph next or a nice chrome bumper BGT

Some historic ones, Austin 7's etc aren't very practial mind.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Zippy the Pinhead drives one, so there's one endorsement.

I always had a sniffy disdain for people who didn't drive their classic cars. Until I owned them and came to know the vast amount of time, energy and money it took to get them right. I've had my Pantera on the track a few times but I'd rather walk on broken legs that drive it into the city or park it at the supermarket.

Apparently Elton John, Princess Margaret, Elvis and various other famous people were owners

 

[Griff]

The driving camp for sure, hell mine's not even garaged.

Just got back from the Laon Historique Rallye over the weekend, 700 cars mostly from the UK bombing round the French town of Laon which closes the roads of the historic circuit once a year. It was a bit oversubscribed this year which meant there were some fair old traffic jams round the town, but you can floor it round some parts and the French crowds love it when you make a lot of noise and fly past.

Some fantastic cars there, but the Sunbeam Tiger with Nitrous had to be my fave. What a sound.

The car didn't actually break down thios time, but we lost an exhaust bracket on the A26 coming home which resulted in missing the ferry and seriously delaying us.

One of the 4 'car-parks' on Sunday morning, it quickly filled up with old cars.

Traffic jam on the first circuit run.

Lovely 5.7 Tiger

Part of the hotel car-park.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I've been to a lot of classic car and motorcycle shows in the last 30 years, as well as a few of the well-known motor museums, and I've come to realise that every time I pay such a visit I come away feeling exasperated, even more now than I did 20 or 10 years ago.

Why do I get exasperated? It's because at a lot of classic car shows, the car-owners barely drive their classics, they keep them in concours condition, and generally store them under tarps, and trailer them to and from the shows. A minority of classic owners do drive their beauties, and invariably get looked down on by the rest.

So, which side of the fence do you come down on - the "drive your classic, it's a car, for fuck's sake" side, or the "pamper the little darling and put less than 50 miles on the clock per year" side?

As a classic racer, I have to say they cease to be racing cars if they are not raced. They turn into expensive works of art which wasn't their original design.

If you don't race em then you shouldn't have em.

However, I also understand the reason why drivers clubs and racing clubs have become picnic and buffet clubs to, it's prohibitively expensive both in terms of race track entry fees, health check ups, ever changing, ever meddling with the authenticity of the vehicles original parts to have to cope with safety legislation each year, constantly changing safety equipement spec changes, (race overalls which become illegal half way through a season as one example, helmets which suddenly cannot be used for certain types of racing as another. No reason will be fine if raced in the UK but illegal in France questionable in Germany .... all administered by the same rules from the FIA but individual localised authorities can decided how they are interpreted), parts, initial cost of the cars (going up exponentially now a car which might have cost sixty thousand 4 years ago now sells for 160 thousand now).

Racing them has always been a case of either you're brought in driver or you're rich and bring in drivers or have a go yourself. but this along with many other areas of life has become increasingly so in this day and age. There's also the relative costs to consider now. A season in F2 can be had for around sixty five grand, a season in classic racing can be anywhere from eighty to ninety thousand if you're doing a full campaign. it's simply cheaper to keep the old car at home race something newer safer and less likely to break. and when you look at the costs of getting your old car fixed in the event of a shunt... breath taking...

but yes racers get looked down on by others as do those who drive their cars largely because you haven't got the car as an investment so are rather spoiling their concept of it being a thing for privileged elites if you turn up and show their gleaning investment has to park next to a tatty old bus.

I thin the only museums worth their salt are Beaulieu and Brooklands both of which have a positive outlook on the use of the cars and insist all their models are in working and usable order (and are taken out at least once a year). The rest are a bit more well like grave yards for old vehicles.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Drive 'em I do...current car isn't over 25 years yet but the oldies were great, except for the scary brakes. I think I might get a triumph next or a nice chrome bumper BGT

Some historic ones, Austin 7's etc aren't very practial mind.

Given your fondness for Minis, I'm surprised you haven't considered a nice old Austin 1300 GT (the one that used the Mini 1275 engine.).

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Some historic ones, Austin 7's etc aren't very practial mind.

erm wtf are you talking about by far and away the largest group of vintage racers after the morgans is the austin 7 racer club...

They have to be after the morris minor one of the few nearly as many produced as are still around cars... and there's some lovely examples of a good 7 racer...

they start off looking like this, a Dr's coupe cut off....

and this

and end up looking like an indy racer...like this...

 

[zenie]

I didn't mention racing you did. I was talking about daily drivers.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I didn't mention racing you did. I was talking about daily drivers.

yeah they are all road legal zenie... and all drive to events pretty much...

 

[zenie]

I know all that as I have friends in the Austin 7 club and have been to events, I stand by my point that they're not very practical for daily use. Are you trying to have an argument over something?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

totally... have at you wench...

 

[DownwardDog]

As a classic racer, I have to say they cease to be racing cars if they are not raced. They turn into expensive works of art which wasn't their original design.

If you don't race em then you shouldn't have em.

Why? There isn't One True Way to enjoy a car. If somebody enjoys tinkering with a car and making it the best it can be rather than driving it then that's up to them.

If, by some miracle, I finish my Lambo restoration before I die of old age I doubt I'll even register it. It will probably be tracked once a year and trailered to a show or two.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Why? There isn't One True Way to enjoy a car. If somebody enjoys tinkering with a car and making it the best it can be rather than driving it then that's up to them.

If, by some miracle, I finish my Lambo restoration before I die of old age I doubt I'll even register it. It will probably be tracked once a year and trailered to a show or two.

it ceases to be a racing car if it's not raced. simples...

 

[DownwardDog]

it ceases to be a racing car if it's not raced. simples...

That's just a bit of hairsplitting sophistry about the gerund 'racing'. What you wrote was:

\
If you don't race em then you shouldn't have em.

Which seems a bit stiff. Why would you give a shit what anybody else does with their 'racing' car?

 

[jusali]

Drive 'em that's what they're for.
I often get taken out for a blat in FinL's TR5 it's great fun!

 

[Griff]

I often get taken out for a blat in FinL's TR5 it's great fun!

God, I'm sick of the sight of TRs, there were millions of the damn things at Laon, they seem to have taken over from the MGB as the most popular old British sportscar.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Which seems a bit stiff. Why would you give a shit what anybody else does with their 'racing' car?

very simply put if you turn what some of us do as a sport and for fun into a speculative commodity then you tend to corrupt the very nature of it. That and it increases unnecessarily the cost to all, benefiting only those who are interested in the item as an investment and not for it's purpose.

Unlike other sports motor sport cannot be done anywhere it has to be done on some sort of motor sport arena so increasing the cost because of speculative investment adds nothing to the sport but increased cost to all...

so no it's not stiff. it's an ethic which has to some extent limited the level of speculation and kept the costs down to those of us who don't want to be or presently need to be multi millionaires to enjoy our sport...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

God, I'm sick of the sight of TRs, there were millions of the damn things at Laon, they seem to have taken over from the MGB as the most popular old British sportscar.

cheap unreliable and mainly shite that's why

 

[jusali]

God, I'm sick of the sight of TRs, there were millions of the damn things at Laon, they seem to have taken over from the MGB as the most popular old British sportscar.

cheap unreliable and mainly shite that's why

Ouch come on! He did a ground up restoration it's probably better than the original.
He's doing a Healey at the moment 3000 Mk3 Phase 2 probably won't see that for another 5 yrs or so.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Ouch come on! He did a ground up restoration it's probably better than the original.

BMC hmmm not really hard to be better than the original. If you filled it up with forecourt petrol from new it have been improved from the original

 

[Griff]

Here are some more pictures from Laon last week, note the TRs in the background.

This is the other 5.7 Sunbeam Tiger, but this one had nitrous, the noise of this was staggering when he started it up for me and pressed the nitrous button.