Civil Service WFH crackdown

[Wolveryeti]

Apparently heads of all departments were this month sent a letter from the minister responsible saying that they were going to require a minimum of 60% working at the office.

Civil servants to be ordered back to the office for at least three days a week in WFH crackdown

Civi servants are set to be ordered to return to the office for at least three days a week as Rishi Sunak cracks down on work from home habits.

www.lbc.co.uk

This would totally screw me as I work 2+ hours from my nearest office and have 2 kids that need dropping off / picking up from nursery and my wife works full time. Our entire arrangement has up to this point been based on me doing all the pick ups and drop offs. Not to mention that the pandemic period savings on travel costs have now been totally been eaten up by inflation, so there is no spare cash knocking about for annual railpasses etc.

Also a total joke as the office I am attached to does not have capacity to have everyone start coming in 3 days per week so if this enters into force you will have the farce of people trying to work in the kitchen, off of filing cabinets, etc.

Just wondering how this is affecting everyone else who is in the civil service - interested in how this is translating into formal requirements, legal opinions on whether they can do this, timings of when this will enter into force etc.

 

[belboid]

We were meant to have a letter from PCS about it, but mines never showed up. Fortunately it’s online too - Tell us how the 60% office attendance affects you

There’s no way they’ll get us in three days, the office isn’t big enough. And our stats are better when wfh, apparently, so managers won’t be pushing it.

 

[Cloo]

This is mostly fucking Rees-Mogg's legacy, isn't it? Working from home is woke and the Daily Mail doesn't like it because people over 70 no longer in the workforce don't understand it, so it has to go.

 

[Elpenor]

This is mostly fucking Rees-Mogg's legacy, isn't it? Working from home is woke and the Daily Mail doesn't like it because people over 70 no longer in the workforce don't understand it, so it has to go.

This is what my dad thinks, and he’s over 70, think he reads the Times. He last worked in an office in 2006, and for the 10 years following that he was self employed and did most of the work for his clients … from home

My office is noisy, too hot, uncomfortable, and we wouldn’t have enough desks for our department. I would struggle to work there if the office was full, as some of the other departments in the office are on calls for most of the day.

 

[marty21]

Local Authorities are also trying to get people back to the office - personally it doesn't bother me - I came back full-time to the office as soon as I could because I hated working from home. But, wfh is a new way of working, a lot of folk have embraced it - and for a lot of roles, you don't need to be in the office.

 

[izz]

This utterly, utterly, boils my piss. Productivity rocketed during lockdown for all kinds of reasons to do with overcrowding in the workspace so there's no way (in my former organisation) they could claim people were taking the piss. I hate the cynical way the media is manipulated into trotting out the tired old notion of civil servants sitting round with their feet on the desks just waiting until they can claim their gold-plated pension. What a load of utter toss. I feel a pithy letter coming on

 

[5t3IIa]

Hard agree, except with marty21 My office is a 90 minute, fifteen quid commute away. I only took the job because it was only two days per week ITO. Am now looking into CS stuff I can do in my town, which if the MoJ ‘companion office’ thing is accurate shouldn’t be too hard but not heading for a promotion on those type of gigs. It’s bullshit.

 

[Bus Honeygun]

This is mostly fucking Rees-Mogg's legacy, isn't it? Working from home is woke and the Daily Mail doesn't like it because people over 70 no longer in the workforce don't understand it, so it has to go.

Yes. He was the most vocal proponent of it, but it's a general view of the right of the Tory party (although aren't they all hard right now?).

I haven't been going in for three years now. They were happy to take advantage of homeworking to scatter my team all over the country. Now there's only two of us in my office I just don't see the point in going in and because my manager is 150 miles away and the one above that is 200 miles away they haven't bothered pushing the current 40% attendance line. I have gone in a couple of times (mainly for my union treasurer role), and it was nice to see a few old faces, but there was no work value to it. Going in three times a week would be a pisser for me, but it's not a problem - the office is just ten minutes away on my bike and our daughter is at college now.

Our PCS branch did have a members call last week, and obviously a lot of people are very concerned, but reading between both the lines of management and the union in our department, I wonder how strictly (and practically) this is going to be enforced. The impression I get is that it might end up so that as long as you show your face reasonably regularly and desks are close to being fully occupied, that might be enough. Just my optimistic hunch, though.

I'm going to start going in one day a week in January and take it from there. I'm hopeful that one day might be enough and I always knew that permanent homeworking was not a realistic option for me, anyway.

 

[pbsmooth]

I'm curious about "productivity" stats and how they are measured. Must massively vary by job. Fact is 2020/21 was a boom time for lots of businesses as people were at home and buying stuff - did that mean those businesses were more productive? Now we're close to a recession, nobody has any money, people not buying stuff - so less productive? I'd imagine that's why some are being asked to come to the office. Desparation perhaps.

 

[izz]

Attitudes straight from the Victorian workhorse. Fucking shallow-thinking stupid cunts.

 

[Bus Honeygun]

My office is a 90 minute, fifteen quid commute away. I only took the job because it was only two days per week ITO. Am now looking into CS stuff I can do in my town, which if the MoJ ‘companion office’ thing is accurate shouldn’t be too hard but not heading for a promotion on those type of gigs. It’s bullshit.

That's the thing that really pisses me off - the goal shifting.

Fella on my team got taken on with a 'oh, technically you'll be based in Cambridge but you won't have to go in that often', which is just as well as he lives 30 miles away and has young kids. Now it's 'you need to go in three days a week, oh and by the way, nobody else from your team will be there but you can network with other departments and colleagues'.

Network? WTF?! They really have no idea what it's like for those of us towards the bottom of the CS food chain.

 

[belboid]

I'm curious about "productivity" stats and how they are measured. Must massively vary by job. Fact is 2020/21 was a boom time for lots of businesses as people were at home and buying stuff - did that mean those businesses were more productive? Now we're close to a recession, nobody has any money, people not buying stuff - so less productive? I'd imagine that's why some are being asked to come to the office. Desparation perhaps.

Productivity is, generally, based upon Amount of Job Done per person. So I have 20 odd cases to deal with every day, in office I'll probably do 20 but at home I'll manage 22. The businesses that did well during covid saw their profits go up, but not necessarily their productivity. Due to decades of underinvestment rises in UK productivity are well shite.

 

[pbsmooth]

Productivity is, generally, based upon Amount of Job Done per person. So I have 20 odd cases to deal with every day, in office I'll probably do 20 but at home I'll manage 22. The businesses that did well during covid saw their profits go up, but not necessarily their productivity. Due to decades of underinvestment rises in UK productivity are well shite.

I wonder how many people have jobs that are that easily measured. Even some people who have targets like that will presumably have other stuff to do which may not be so easily put into numbers and targets.

 

[belboid]

For sure. But this is the civil service, the fuckers quantity everything.

(Probably less so the higher up you go).

 

[Cloo]

I'm curious about "productivity" stats and how they are measured. Must massively vary by job. Fact is 2020/21 was a boom time for lots of businesses as people were at home and buying stuff - did that mean those businesses were more productive? Now we're close to a recession, nobody has any money, people not buying stuff - so less productive? I'd imagine that's why some are being asked to come to the office. Desparation perhaps.

Productivity stats are a bit fucked anyway and it needs to be talked about more as this idea that we are 'not productive' is driving lots of (bad) policy, like complaining workers have 'too many rights'.

If I recall correctly the issue is that we still measure Productivity as though we are a manufacturing economy, whereas now we're a service and knowledge economy and the metrics don't take into account increases in computing power, either. So the whole digital economy isn't being counted properly.

 

[pbsmooth]

Productivity stats are a bit fucked anyway and it needs to be talked about more as this idea that we are 'not productive' is driving lots of (bad) policy, like complaining workers have 'too many rights'.

If I recall correctly the issue is that we still measure Productivity as though we are a manufacturing economy, whereas now we're a service and knowledge economy and the metrics don't take into account increases in computing power, either. So the whole digital economy isn't being counted properly.

Yep.Hard agree with all that.

 

[xenon]

But who will pay the rent on all those office blocks?

 

[pbsmooth]

I also have to check myself around the WFH conversation and realise that from my experience lots of young people do want to be in the office. And preferably a lively office with the rest of the team. They don't have an 'office' at home so moaning about the commute/office days in meetings to youngsters trying to enjoy their first office job in the big city etc is not the one.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Subject to the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer and it's a while since i've been a union rep, wonder if the key question here is employment contracts.

Is current wfh-ing now a contractual thing (either in writing, or been going on long enough to be contractual by implication / custom + practice) or is it still technically an unofficial / emergency arrangement? And is it any different for people who have started in the last year or two?

would this constitute a change of contract?

I'm with a local authority, and last year, they changed many workers to hybrid / home based contracts - there was a (fairly modest) one off lump sum with a suggestion it could be used to buy a decent desk and chair for home (although no requirement to spend it on anything in particular or provide receipts), and the contract requirement (on paper) is you must go to an office at least once a month, and they have closed down one of the two office buildings.

i live 60+ miles away, and it was all still an emergency arrangement when i started there, but i'm aware people have started on this basis and some live further away than i do.

 

[Cloo]

I also have to check myself around the WFH conversation and realise that from my experience lots of young people do want to be in the office. And preferably a lively office with the rest of the team. They don't have an 'office' at home so moaning about the commute/office days in meetings to youngsters trying to enjoy their first office job in the big city etc is not the one.

Yeah, and a lot of them will be living in shitty, shared accommodation where wfh is not particularly gratifying. I do wonder if we will see some more return as more young people enter the workforce.

 

[tommers]

When we all worked from home I used to get asked by people living on their own if we could pay for a co-working space for them.

There is some evidence that having teams in the office working together improves productivity as you are more likely to just chat rather than spin up yet another zoom call. Wfh increases isolation and siloes, reduces collaboration etc. But there are also advantages to wfh, in saved time & money, increased talent pool etc etc.

It will be interesting to see where it all ends up. People are used to wfh now, it will take a fair bit to change that

 

[Santino]

I've heard that some organisations are paying people to post threads on Reddit and message boards, encouraging people to share the pleasures and benefits of commuting as part of this propaganda campaign.

 

[tommers]

I've heard that some organisations are paying people to post threads on Reddit and message boards, encouraging people to share the pleasures and benefits of commuting as part of this propaganda campaign.

Fuck commuting. Jesus.

 

[Elpenor]

I would 100% say I get more done at home. My work is very measurable. However what I do or don’t do will have very little impact on what the higher ups decide.

 

[newme]

My local council has closed two of the biggest buildings and now onto reuse/sale since they are not required. I was working for them for 5 years and after lockdown we were told we could come in whenever we wanted, just book it and you had a desk available etc. Uptake was about 2% according to the stats they had, the survey they did said 20% of people wanted to come in x numbers of days a week, but then when presented with the opportunity had not actually done so. They only really wanted to be in on the condition everyone else was there it seems. Which seemed rather stupid for the 80% who did not want to go in at all. They have moved to having the one main building and then local 'hubs' scattered around. Which helped those who had bad situations for wfh not have to go that far but otherwise changed nothing. Our department had decided we would go in if there was an actual business need, which until I left in late Feb 2022 was once, to clear out lockers so they could clear the building and knock it down for some form of social housing project. No one did any work that day, main conversations were around whether we could take office furniture home.

My last team was in a public sector adjacent job and spread from Cornwall to Newcastle across England, with people from Scotland, Wales and N Ireland. Even high level stuff was not f2f unless essential as it was just pointless costs, think the director went in once a month or so to the client and the rev and profit targets were smashed all over. In office just caused people unnecessary hassle, we had a call with one team that were all in the office but then were all sat around one laptop... ended up with them all in a meeting room with separate screens anyway, whats the point in that? Even where there are local hubs it usually meant you would not be with your own team necessarily so what are you gaining by being there, plus with flexi and the inevitable teams calls it just makes everything very loud unless you have your own room, like you have at home for the most part... all for it if its optional for those that want it, mandatory is stupid. I cannot see who it helps apart from building owners and those who setup businesses based on the fact people were forced to be in a specific area against their will.

I keep getting recruitment people asking me about a uni position which would be perfect, they even bumped the wages 10k and the pension contrib is 16%! but its not remote and I am not doing 4 hours a day travelling for something I have done remotely for years now. After the costs and time I would be better off getting something lower paid I don't have to travel for.

 

[Chz]

My University isn't making a deal of it yet. We're in 2 days a week, which I am fine with, and my manager did ask what I thought about 3. I basically said "not gonna do it, dare them to fire me". (The number of open posts we can't fill is unbelievable) I'm in a good place in that I'm marketable and choose to work in academia because I'm lazy, but not everyone has the luxury to tell them to fuck off in nicer words.

 

[Glitter]

We’ve had the crackdown too. Currently having to go in more, losing 2hrs a day in travel and £14.20 + after school clubs for 2 kids. I also HAVE to be on the 3.30pm train as after school club shuts at 5pm.

I’m hoping my carer’s passport will get approved with an approved reduction in time in the office or my flexi will be very negative each week.

 

[Shellee]

I used to work for HMRC and what people forget is that working from home for 40% of your hours was a perk negotiated between HMRC and the PCS in the pay deal BEFORE Covid
It’s not some freaky woke demand workers have dreamed up to skive pis Covid. HMRC wanted it too, to free up office space and make desk sharing work
They used to be fairly flexible and let you do 40% of your hours at home over the month, rather than a rigid three days in, two days home every week, hopefully that will still be the case
Civil servant have always been an easy target for cost free popularity by attacking them
But in reality, working from home increases productivity and trying to restrict or reduce it is just going to create an angry, stressed and non-productive work force

 

[izz]

Having to do a pig of a commute was one of the (very many, very varied) reasons I left the civil service, but this means I don't give a fuck about keeping my job any more, if anyone wants me to email their head of department, just let me know the email address and I shall be very happy to craft a pithy defence of WFH.

As an aside, a friend reports that the nursery on her site is being closed and they get information about this alongside the 'go back to the office you skiving scum' propaganda.

 

[belboid]

Just been told we're not likely to be expected in until at least spring. Which is something.