Characterizing Israel

[littlebabyjesus]

Ta for that ba. Good thoughts, if a little confused as to the dietary habits of stick insects!

 

[redsquirrel]

The Front National, the FPÖ, the Lega Nord, the Vlaamsblok, the Republikaner, the Centrumpartei, the Scandinavian Progress parties, and scores of openly xenophobic parties which have emerged in the countries of the former Soviet Empire vary considerably in their programmes and aspirations, and can sincerely claim to have nothing to do with historic fascism in the conventional sense of the word. Yet in a world inoculated against openly revolutionary varieties of palingenetic ultranationalism, their axiomatic rejection of multi-culturalism, their longing for ‘purity’, their nostalgia for a mythical world of racial homogeneity and clearly demarcated boundaries of cultural differentiation, their celebration of the ties of blood and history over reason and a common humanity, their rejection of ius soli for ius sanguinis, their solvent-like abuse of history represent a reformist version of the same basic myth, one which poses a more serious threat to liberal democracy than fascism because it is able to disguise itself, rather like a stick insect posing as a twig to catch its prey.

Cheers BA, I think I'm right in saying this was originally published in 2000. I wonder if he'd add UKIP to that list of parties these days.

 

[butchersapron]

Cheers BA, I think I'm right in saying this was originally published in 2000. I wonder if he'd add UKIP to that list of parties these days.

Griffin himself says no. In this chapter from the book Europe for the Europeans: The Foreign Policy and the Populist Radical Right he distinguishes them and the BNP (at least partially) from the sort of groups mentioned above. I agree on the case of UKIP. Griffin has the view that these parties don't really exist here as the driving motivations behind them already exist and are catered for in the main parties and as part of the social/civil imagination - they've already colonised that political space that the above parties need to survive long-term.. I think he's wrong there, or at least he's wrong when you add other issues into the ethnocratic mix as UKIP are doing very successfully right now.

 

[Red Cat]

Griffin himself says no. In this chapter from the book Europe for the Europeans: The Foreign Policy and the Populist Radical Right he distinguishes them and the BNP (at least partially) from the sort of groups mentioned above. I agree on the case of UKIP. Griffin has the view that these parties don't really exist here as the driving motivations behind them already exist and are catered for in the main parties and as part of the social/civil imagination - they've already colonised that political space that the above parties need to survive long-term.. I think he's wrong there, or at least he's wrong when you add other issues into the ethnocratic mix as UKIP are doing very successfully right now.

Can you explain a bit more?

 

[butchersapron]

Can you explain a bit more?

Griffin reckons the anti-immigrant position is part of the main parties choice of political presentation already, and that the ideas are internalised within the discourse of civil society to such an extent that speaking against immigration, speaking up for the common man type approaches have no purchase as the potential to gain support on that basis has already bee occupied by society and its parties. Where he goes wrong is in not realising how this sort of position tied to wider issues of political legitimacy and social alienation, elite misgovernance etc can be effectively bundled together in order to position oneself on on that common man terrain - as UKIP are doing right now - and the BNP did to a lesser extent a few years back.

 

[frogwoman]

Israeli Terrorists, Born in the U.S.A. http://nyti.ms/1JTNry7

An article here about jewish religious extremism and the fact many of these people were born in the US and the relationship they have to 'mainstream' judaism

Actually written by someone ive met a few times.

 

[Idris2002]

I wasn't talking about Israel, I was talking about the view of the west towards south Africa? IE was there a hasbara-type industry based on promoting it?

I don't know if there was an organized effort in the last decades of apartheid to support it, but I do remember seeing pro-SA adverts in a business magazine from about 1960.

 

[phildwyer]

I don't know if there was an organized effort in the last decades of apartheid to support it, but I do remember seeing pro-SA adverts in a business magazine from about 1960.

You mean you missed this classic? It has some amazing stuff about Peter Hain...

 

[Idris2002]

You mean you missed this classic? It has some amazing stuff about Peter Hain...

No, earlier than that - "we Sath Efricans are the unjustly maligned victims of the international communist conspiracy".

And in Ireland, in the 80s, there was a guy who would regularly write to the papers (and get his letters published) condemning all criticism of SA. I think he did it for love, though.

 

[J Ed]

No, earlier than that - "we Sath Efricans are the unjustly maligned victims of the international communist conspiracy".

And in Ireland, in the 80s, there was a guy who would regularly write to the papers (and get his letters published) condemning all criticism of SA. I think he did it for love, though.

You still meet the occasional Tory who will defend Apartheid and they certainly aren't being paid now

 

[JimW]

Don't know if everyone caught this Storyville doc, it's based around recordings made by IDF soldiers in the immediate aftermath of the Six Day War recounting their experiences but also making some insightful comments into what being occupiers and in a state like one of constant war does to a nation: BBC iPlayer - Storyville - 2015-2016: 11. The Six-Day War: Censored Voices

 

[irf520]

also i think people might object if they expressed their views as forthrightly as say the germans in the 1930s and early 1940s.

Oh but they do:

Sic Semper Tyrannis : Israel's New Justice Minister

 

[butchersapron]

Do you do anything but link to that blog?

 

[DrRingDing]

Don't know if everyone caught this Storyville doc, it's based around recordings made by IDF soldiers in the immediate aftermath of the Six Day War recounting their experiences but also making some insightful comments into what being occupiers and in a state like one of constant war does to a nation: BBC iPlayer - Storyville - 2015-2016: 11. The Six-Day War: Censored Voices

I've been avoiding watching due to wanting to keep my acid reflux at bay.

 

[hipipol]

I've been avoiding watching due to wanting to keep my acid reflux at bay.

Its well worth the watch

 

[butchersapron]

Lord of the Rings was a key text for much of the third-postionist style italian post-war far right. Serious. Don't ask me why though, never read it.

Any links? I would be interested to read about that

Yep - and the fantasy thing goes far beyond LOR. This is a non-fascist article hosted on a now dead third-postionist shit site years ago, link is to the internet archive version of it:

The Blend of Literary and Historical Fantasy in the Italian New Right- Roger Griffin

A new piece on the actual camp hobbit(s)

 

[Poi E]

Christ, and I thought I only had to watch out for films written by John Milius.

 

[Idris2002]

A new piece on the actual camp hobbit(s)

Good article, butchers, but there's a touch of horseshoe theory in the bit about them trying to bring far right and far left together. Or did they actually manage to get leftist youth to come to these things? Did the Italian left recognise this shite for what it was at the time, or did it take a while to realise that point?

 

[butchersapron]

Good article, butchers, but there's a touch of horseshoe theory in the bit about them trying to bring far right and far left together. Or did they actually manage to get leftist youth to come to these things? Did the Italian recognise this shite for what it was at the time, or did it take a while to realise that point?

The italian left they looked to attract was all over it - they were laughing their tits off at the idea that these freaks represented somethings socially or that they were talking 'to the kids'. 'The kids' were occupying Bologna for a near week breaking open weapons shops and preparing for civil war at the exact same time. These clowns were irrelevant to what was happening. Now. oddly enough, they're not.

 

[Idris2002]

The italian left they looked to attract was all over it - they were laughing their tits off at the idea that these freaks represented somethings socially or that they were talking 'to the kids'. 'The kids' were occupying Bologna for a near week breaking open weapons shops and preparing for civil war at the exact same time. These clowns were irrelevant to what was happening. Now. oddly enough, they're not.

And the music was better in the '70s too.

 

[likesfish]

Israel came out of the Holocaust Never Again is the driving thought 1948 they were facing annihlation the arab league wasn't planning on taking prisoners.
Beliving you've got your back to the wall excuses everything international law etc saw jews industrialy slaughtered and nothing was done.
Now they are armed and can fight back and people are calling them to show restraint etc not really happening