Champion Hill: Proposed Ground Redevelopment

[Scolly]

2: it's open use, so if you have a mate and a ball you may wish to have a kick about ... at your risk

3: FoG know that the upgrade is never going to be possible, the ground is beyond that and they seemingly are choosing to ignore this. A couple of supporters (who I believe to be members of FoG) brought this up at the last club meeting with fans,. The club, Trust and volunteers who work at the ground daily gave them many valid reason's why this could never happen ............ yet FoG still choose to actively promote this as the option. This is the frustrating aspect to much of this, they seemingly wish to kill the club and a huge part of the community to retain a run down astro that I believe Southwark will use eventually*

It would cost over ten million to re-build the ground on the current site, not forgetting we don't own the land and so that would cost us 10's millions to buy out Meadow and that's if they would sell.

*Southwark will never do a CPO, but are more likely to sell Greendale themselves to a developer within the next decade - funding will continue to be cut and councils struggle to fund services.

 

[Taper]

The AstroTurf has lifted in many areas and is covered in a mossy slime. There’s a sign saying you play on it at your own risk. Pretty much unusable other than for dog walking

 

[Pink Panther]

On point 3: Who are CPRE asking to "investigate" upgrading the current stadium? We can all investigate it all we like, but only Meadow have the power to actually allow that development to happen and clearly they won't do that. If it was the case that we could just upgrade the current ground, none of these discussions would be happening in the first place - surely they understand that.

I suspect the CPRE neither know nor care about any details. Glibly overlooking the ownership of the freehold by Meadow is an insult to everyone's intelligence. I'd rather they were honest and just said the preservation of MOL is more important than the preservation of DHFC.

it's already been an artificial fully enclosed pitch with floodlights for a number of years. It's also essentially a brownfield site having accommodated a fully enclosed earlier DHFC ground with stands and terraces and attendances of up to 10,000 between 1912-1931, a fact one prominent opponent of the redevelopment insisted was untrue a while ago.

 

[teuchter]

Quite right, if all you like is sophistry....

The club needs a new stadium to survive, it's a straight choice between adherence to the arbitrary conventions re: MOL or the club.

It's quite right that if it's inappropriate development on MOL, because it will be enclosed, then it's inappropriate, and the reason why it needs to be enclosed is irrelevant. The FA's rules don't change what is or isn't appropriate.

The MOL conventions aren't arbitrary, they are there for a purpose (which you may or may not agree with).

The choice is between adherence to MOL rules and letting a developer get away with circumventing them by using the football club as their human shield.

 

[Taper]

A lot of MOL land is enclosed, including that around Greendale. Enclosure isn’t an issue.

 

[Latahs]

It's quite right that if it's inappropriate development on MOL, because it will be enclosed, then it's inappropriate, and the reason why it needs to be enclosed is irrelevant. The FA's rules don't change what is or isn't appropriate.

The MOL conventions aren't arbitrary, they are there for a purpose (which you may or may not agree with).

The choice is between adherence to MOL rules and letting a developer get away with circumventing them by using the football club as their human shield.

Arbitrary.

 

[editor]

Buzzed: Dulwich Hamlet issue the latest update on the Champion Hill planning application, and urge fans to register their support

 

[Latahs]

<Shines al crane/ dc dulwich Light into the sky>

This is dull but I believe that the most persuasive comments will also justify the re-development from a planning perspective. Don't just write about how much you love the club, inclusion, keys, cask ale etc....

Here are a few starters

• The new MUGA will enhance the provision of sporting facilities in the area (improve health/ mental well-being etc.) and for local schools
• The stadium will not survive without development so there won’t be any facilities or club...sine qua non (paraphrasing from Roger D)
• The encroachment on MOL is a problem but it’s use should be reassessed (see below) as it would add more value as part of our development (Edited following Roger Ds comments)
• Greendale is rubbish and not an SSSI (put into your own words) which was historically part of the football ground
• Local businesses rely on the trade that 3000+ people bring on alternate Saturdays (and will bring on Sundays in future thanks to DHFC_W)
• The development will of course provide more affordable housing in the area (as no-one lives in an affordable house within the boundaries of Champion Hill Stadium) which is sorely needed

I'll edit this if there are any sensible arguments against - but not from obvious contrarians who want the club to die

 

[Roger D]

I am not a planning expert but doubt the no real encroachment on MOL line will work. There either is or there isn't. Planning is usually black and white.

However I believe with MOL there are shades of grey and development on MOL is acceptable under certain circumstances. If so you probably need to argue this development is acceptable under existing legislation because XYZ. Sorry you need someone with more planning knowledge than me to phrase that.

 

[teuchter]

Don't forget to work out the good argument for overturning a planning condition that protects the existing stadium grounds from redevelopment. The good argument for why that should happen in order to allow a developer to make a nice profit, and displace that supposedly protected use onto a piece of publicly owned green space that could be used for something else.

 

[Roger D]

That's the argument about whether or not it is justified in these circumstances to build on MOL. Don't believe the stadium will survive without another development. As you said, the developers want their profit and ultimately are likely to get it unless someone knows a benefactor with £13 million free.

For the record I live in Hampshire now and have never publicly supported or opposed the new ground. Many Hamlet fans got the hump when the CPRE invited anyone to oppose this. I don't disagree with CPRE objecting, it's their role however; I agree with the Hamlet fans that this is a local political decision and they shouldn't appeal to anyone outside the area. Clearly as a Hampshire resident that also excludes me.

I'm happy to call hypocracy out on either side. Those charged with making the decision should do so on the basis of the facts.

BTW to those who believe Greendale has never been developed, check the history of Dulwich Wood FC, founded 1907, pre world war one and where Townley Park had signed a lease to play in 1914/15......

 

[teuchter]

For the record I live in Hampshire now and have never publicly supported or opposed the new ground. Many Hamlet fans got the hump when the CPRE invited anyone to oppose this. I don't disagree with CPRE objecting, it's their role however; I agree with the Hamlet fans that this is a local political decision and they shouldn't appeal to anyone outside the area. Clearly as a Hampshire resident that also excludes me.

One legitimate reason bodies from outside the area might get involved is that planning decisions can set precedent - precedent that could have consequence for decisions elsewhere.

 

[Taper]

There's already quite a bit of precedent for developing MOL. CPRE are very reactionary on Green Belt (see John Elledge), so perhaps their strategy is to try to hold some sort of line on its urban equivalent MOL. Or perhaps a board member is also a member of the Dulwich Society.

 

[B.I.G]

There's already quite a bit of precedent for developing MOL. CPRE are very reactionary on Green Belt (see John Elledge), so perhaps their strategy is to try to hold some sort of line on its urban equivalent MOL. Or perhaps a board member is also a member of the Dulwich Society.

#Jonn# Elledge.

He made me a beatles mixtape.

 

[Taper]

Jonn Elledge, that's the guy. He's very good. Here's a bit of invective on the CPRE The CPRE is wrong: there are not 460,000 homes planned for England’s green belts | CityMetric

 

[EDC]

East Dulwich Forum are saying the proposal has been accepted by Sadiq Khan. Is that it then?

 

[editor]

East Dulwich Forum are saying the proposal has been accepted by Sadiq Khan. Is that it then?

Says 'status unknown' on the planning form

https://planning.southwark.gov.uk/online-applications-old/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

 

[Pink Panther]

East Dulwich Forum are saying the proposal has been accepted by Sadiq Khan. Is that it then?

As far as I can tell one person who seems fairly clueless "thinks" it's been accepted. I'm sure the club would have made an announcement if there was anything significant to report.

 

[B.I.G]

As far as I can tell one person who seems fairly clueless "thinks" it's been accepted. I'm sure the club would have made an announcement if there was anything significant to report.

Plus the person saying the club better have good security and someone claiming they used the space during the lockdown, probably cos its so shit no one else is there.

 

[Roger D]

I believe the application has been recommended for acceptance by the Greater London Authority. They may well have the right to call this decision in if they disagree with Southwark, see the link below for the powers they hold. It is rare for the Mayor to do this.

At the moment the responsible planning authority, to the best of my knowledge, remains Southwark, not the Mayor.

Whilst this is a step in the right direction for the applicant, if I am correct, it certainly does not mean that this is a done deal.

Public Hearings, Mayoral call-ins, Directions to Refuse and Appeals

This page contains details of past and future public hearings, the hearing procedure along with directions to refuse permission and planning appeals the Mayor is involved with

www.london.gov.uk

 

[teuchter]

The AstroTurf has lifted in many areas and is covered in a mossy slime. There’s a sign saying you play on it at your own risk. Pretty much unusable other than for dog walking

By the way...
I went past the other week and noticed quite a few people were using it. Playing football, kids riding bikes and running around.

 

[EDC]

Plus the person saying the club better have good security and someone claiming they used the space during the lockdown, probably cos its so shit no one else is there.

Its actually been extremely busy when I've walked the mutt through there, plus they've taken the time to make banners calling for it's protection.

 

[B.I.G]

Its actually been extremely busy when I've walked the mutt through there, plus they've taken the time to make banners calling for it's protection.

Which will make it even better when it gets knocked down and concreted.

 

[Pink Panther]

Which will make it even better when it gets knocked down and concreted.

Are we having a concrete pitch? I thought it was going to be 3G.

 

[B.I.G]

Are we having a concrete pitch? I thought it was going to be 3G.

Meadow are building it. So who knows what they think a 3g pitch is made of.

 

[tonysingh]

Plus the person saying the club better have good security and someone claiming they used the space during the lockdown, probably cos its so shit no one else is there.

Welcome back. Its been miles too quiet.

 

[B.I.G]

Welcome back. Its been miles too quiet.

Well I got banned for saying covid-19 was bad

Now is not a good time. I’ve gone full dulwich and I’m singing babylon by david gray while far too close to the floor of my garden.

But I’m still not as much of a legend as tonysingh

Keep up the poetry!

 

[B.I.G]

tonysingh since you started something. The superior toni singh.

 

[pettyboy]

By the way...
I went past the other week and noticed quite a few people were using it. Playing football, kids riding bikes and running around.
View attachment 213855

Good photo. Shows how dilapidated the pitch is. Really not fit for purpose and the astroturf is becoming more damaged and dangerous without proper maintenance.

 

[teuchter]

Good photo. Shows how dilapidated the pitch is. Really not fit for purpose and the astroturf is becoming more damaged and dangerous without proper maintenance.

So the solution is to repair it, not to build a fenced off private stadium on it. There's obviously demand for it if people are using it even in its delapidated state.