Buildings insurance / subsidence claim help needed

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I have noticed some cracks on the outside of my house coming down from the roof that match a couple of cracks on the inside.
I guess this could be subsidence or some sort of movement.
Either way, it would be a call to the insurer to check it out. Simple right?

However I just looked at my policy and it says that I ticked that there had not been subsidence, heave or landslip in the last 10 years. . . .
This is the problem. . .

. . . because back in 2014 I made a claim which I am pretty sure involved subsidence. A drain was damaged and caused some damage at the back of the house (not the same area). I had to pay for the patio and drain repair but the insurance covered the 'making good' of the cracks inside the house. So plastering and repainting everything.
For some reason I can't find any of the documents about the claim (I'm usually amazingly good at keeping these things, too good in some cases, I have stuff dating back to rental properties in the 90s).

How fucked am I?
Can I update my claim if I made a mistake? I assume that is not allowed to retroactively admit to subsidence. How could it not automatically appear on my policy?

It could be that I was just looking at the bit that said "Have you made a claim in the last 5 years".
To be honest I didn't even look, I just let it roll over from last year because I was too busy.

Should I just be honest and call them? I was going to send photos of the cracks tomorrow.

 

[teuchter]

On what basis do you believe that the 2014 damage was caused by subsidence? Did someone qualified to make a judgement give you that opinion? Because if you just made a claim for some damage then unless someone told you it was subsidence then why would you assume it to be the cause.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

On what basis do you believe that the 2014 damage was caused by subsidence? Did someone qualified to make a judgement give you that opinion? Because if you just made a claim for some damage then unless someone told you it was subsidence then why would you assume it to be the cause.

Axa came round and assessed the damage.
I honestly don't know exactly what they said because I don't have the docs (for whatever reason).

A drain at the back was damaged and they arranged someone to fix the crack in the drain (six feet down), but because that came under ware and tear I had to pay for it. It was said that the leaky drain is what had created a change in the ground and make the house sink a tad can caused the cracks. They waited for ground to settle and re-plastered and redecorated internally and externally. This I did get on insurance after paying a £1000 excess (which is the subsidence excess amount).

I'm hoping that it may be possible that this wasn't technically 'subsidence' and that's why it's not on the policy as having occurred in the last 10 years. . . but I can't remember, and I have always called it subsidence. .

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

The only thing I can find at the mo is that I made a claim of suspected ground movement, then someone from questgate subsidence came around to assess that claim and check the cause.

On the one hand I am pretty sure I would have asked if I had to put that I claimed subsidence on my next policy and they said 'no'. On the other hand I am also pretty sure that I payed an excess of £1000, which appears to be exclusively for subsidence, landslip and heave.

 

[teuchter]

Well, that does sound a bit like something that you could reasonably be expected to understand as subsidence, so possibly shouldn't have ticked the box.

I always hate those questions ... Especially if they say "has the building ever...." because how am I supposed to know, especially if it's 100+ years old? Aside from whether or not I'm qualified to judge anyway. Neither "yes" or "no" is a good answer.

I think I would try and make a judgement about whether these new cracks matter or not, before getting in touch with the insurer. If they are small and not getting bigger at any appreciable rate, I'd not worry too much, keep an eye on them, and if a year down the line they are causing me concern, perhaps by then I would have ticked "yes" in the box on a renewal form in the meantime.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Well, that does sound a bit like something that you could reasonably be expected to understand as subsidence, so possibly shouldn't have ticked the box.

It's very odd. Knowing me it's not something I would have just done, especially after making a claim.
I always let the previous claim roll over, and definitely kept an eye on the 'did you make a claim in the last five years' section. There really are not that many boxes to even tick.
I'm guessing I called them up at the time and it was registered as damage repair (to the cracks) after I had myself paid for the repair of the drain.
I can't imagine I didn't panic about whether or not I needed to add that I had reported subsidence.

I also have no idea why I can't find any records of all the work that was done.

 

[clicker]

I had an insurance claim years ago, which repaired cracks, but the insurance Co called it 'non progressive movement'.
It was never called 'subsidence' . Maybe that's what your previous claim was for?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I had an insurance claim years ago, which repaired cracks, but the insurance Co called it 'non progressive movement'.
It was never called 'subsidence' . Maybe that's what your previous claim was for?

Could be. I guess I would have to call up AXA to find out exactly what the claim was for.
It may well have be that that they don't like calling anything subsidence if they don't have to because they would have to get out the big wallet? I have no idea. My house supposedly 'resettled' afterwards and they just plastered over the cracks . . . which then cracked again . . . so they came back. Then some cracked again, and they said "aw it will be fine".

 

[tep]

It really depends on your insurer. If you are with NFU then go ahead and call them if you are with the secound cheapest quote you got off comparexx.com then unless the cracks are significant i'd ignore it or glue a piece of glass on the inside crack and see if it cracks at some later stage. Just the fact that, previously, a failed drain caused cracks inside the house makes me think that you are on some really difficult clay (london?) or built on a spoil heap or something 'complicated'.

 

[kalidarkone]

I have inherited a subsidence claim from my late ma. Its a fucking nightmare. Its been going on since 2017! She died last year.

She had so much trouble with them. They tried to say that she hadn't informed them when she first noticed the cracks. She had. They uninsured her. Ma got an independent structural engineer and went to the ombudsman and they reinstated the insurance.

They fucked her around so much that she actually said she thought that they were waiting for her to die rather then do the work.

I've been fighting with them for a year.
Now my complaint is with the ombudsman. They are so short staffed and busy that they have emailed me to say that someone will be in touch with me in FOUR MONTHS

Anyway my point is.....yes get as much evidence as you can as these cunts will say anything to not do the work and pay for it.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Anyway my point is.....yes get as much evidence as you can as these cunts will say anything to not do the work and pay for it.

Well yeah, but that's not my current problem.
I thought I had made a subsidence claim back in 2014 but my Insurance has that I ticked 'no' to a subsidence claim in the last 10 years.
I am now noticing cracks in a very different place, and they might turn out to be subsidence but I might not be covered because my insurance says I said there had been no subsidence in the last 10 years. If they look back at the records they might say 'oi'.

I am pretty sure now the man that dealt with my claim said I should not add that there was subsidence to my claim, but I would have just spoken to him about this on the phone. There would be no paper trail.

 

[muscovyduck]

Well yeah, but that's not my current problem.
I thought I had made a subsidence claim back in 2014 but my Insurance has that I ticked 'no' to a subsidence claim in the last 10 years.
I am now noticing cracks in a very different place, and they might turn out to be subsidence but I might not be covered because my insurance says I said there had been no subsidence in the last 10 years. If they look back at the records they might say 'oi'.

I am pretty sure now the man that dealt with my claim said I should not add that there was subsidence to my claim, but I would have just spoken to him about this on the phone. There would be no paper trail.

Did you physically fill in the form then or was in the man on the phone?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Did you physically fill in the form then or was in the man on the phone?

I phoned up the guy from AXA who was dealing with my claim. Then I think I must have ticked the 'no subsidence' box on his recommendation. It would have then just carried over like that for several years.

Or

I remembered that wrong and ticked the 'yes subsidence' box but it somehow didn't automatically carry over.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

In other news, I did find my documents.
It deffo says minor subsidence from a leaky drain.

Shit it.

Totally unrelated to my new problem as well.
I just don't know what to do. I can't just change my policy next year then immediately make a claim. They will know that's bullshit.

 

[kalidarkone]

Well yeah, but that's not my current problem.
I thought I had made a subsidence claim back in 2014 but my Insurance has that I ticked 'no' to a subsidence claim in the last 10 years.
I am now noticing cracks in a very different place, and they might turn out to be subsidence but I might not be covered because my insurance says I said there had been no subsidence in the last 10 years. If they look back at the records they might say 'oi'.

I am pretty sure now the man that dealt with my claim said I should not add that there was subsidence to my claim, but I would have just spoken to him about this on the

In other news, I did find my documents.
It deffo says minor subsidence from a leaky drain.

Shit it.

Totally unrelated to my new problem as well.
I just don't know what to do. I can't just change my policy next year then immediately make a claim. They will know that's bullshit.

Why do you think it is unrelated? If you had subsidence in the past and the insurance just did a making good repair- it's literally a sticking plaster repair. ( The proper repair is underpinning, but insurance companies don't do that because its too expensive)

Are you with the same insurance company that you reported the subsidence to in 2014?

If your policy just rolled over, can't you argue that it should have included past claim history ( if it's the same insurers)

If its different insurers then I don't know what you can do?

 

[kalidarkone]

Geri might know but i dont think she has posted for ages. I think she is in the insurance industry.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Why do you think it is unrelated? If you had subsidence in the past and the insurance just did a making good repair- it's literally a sticking plaster repair. ( The proper repair is underpinning, but insurance companies don't do that because its too expensive)

Are you with the same insurance company that you reported the subsidence to in 2014?

If your policy just rolled over, can't you argue that it should have included past claim history ( if it's the same insurers)

If its different insurers then I don't know what you can do?

I think it's unrelated only because the last report said it was a leaky drain to the back of my house. The crack in the drain was repaired and the cracks made good. This crack is to the side of the house in a totally different location.

I suppose I could (could I?) try to reopen the old claim (I am still with the same insurers) suggesting they might not have detected (or ignored) actual subsidence and in the mean time other cracks in the house in different areas have opened up.
I did at the time of the last claim point out other cracks around the house, but they concentrated on the back of the house by the drain. They said other cracks were just old house movement. (it's 1930s).

The problem I have is the issue of 'no subsidence in the last 10 years' . They told me it wasn't subsidence as such, but the questgate subsidence company that they instructed said 'minor subsidence due to cracked drain leakage'.

So on one hand their argument was that is wasn't actual subsidence so they didn't need to do much in the way of treatment. . . . but on the other hand it say's the actual word 'subsidence' on he report, and the policy document also says 'has there been heave, or subsidence' in he last 10 years.

I just wish I had it in writing that they told me not to bother putting it on my policy.

 

[platinumsage]

When is your renewal date?

 

[muscovyduck]

I think it's unrelated only because the last report said it was a leaky drain to the back of my house. The crack in the drain was repaired and the cracks made good. This crack is to the side of the house in a totally different location.

I suppose I could (could I?) try to reopen the old claim (I am still with the same insurers) suggesting they might not have detected (or ignored) actual subsidence and in the mean time other cracks in the house in different areas have opened up.
I did at the time of the last claim point out other cracks around the house, but they concentrated on the back of the house by the drain. They said other cracks were just old house movement. (it's 1930s).

The problem I have is the issue of 'no subsidence in the last 10 years' . They told me it wasn't subsidence as such, but the questgate subsidence company that they instructed said 'minor subsidence due to cracked drain leakage'.

So on one hand their argument was that is wasn't actual subsidence so they didn't need to do much in the way of treatment. . . . but on the other hand it say's the actual word 'subsidence' on he report, and the policy document also says 'has there been heave, or subsidence' in he last 10 years.

I just wish I had it in writing that they told me not to bother putting it on my policy.

GDPR request to see if they've got a recording of the phonecall maybe? That way you can fish for it and still keep your cards to your chest re the subsidence claim

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

When is your renewal date?

September 'I think'.
But wouldn't it be odd to add that change and then immediately make a claim?
I suppose trying to link it to the older claim from 2014 might help. I did send pictures from all around the house and attic that they seemed uninterested in.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

GDPR request to see if they've got a recording of the phonecall maybe? That way you can fish for it and still keep your cards to your chest re the subsidence claim

I think the call would have not been to AXA it would have been to the guy they put me on to. He was an 'out and about' type, so I think it might have even been a mobile. I should have emailed it all in detail. I'm so daft.
I might have also done that though, so I guess I had better check all my old gmails when I get the chance. . . . but I probably just called.

 

[platinumsage]

September 'I think'.
But wouldn't it be odd to add that change and then immediately make a claim?
I suppose trying to link it to the older claim from 2014 might help. I did send pictures from all around the house and attic that they seemed uninterested in.

It would give you options. You might shop around for a new provider who only asks about subsidence in the last five years for example.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It could get more complex if you change insurers now.

A change of insurer​

We see cases where the customer has changed their buildings insurer and then made a claim for subsidence.

The new insurer says that the damage caused by the subsidence predates its policy and it should therefore be covered by the previous insurer, but the previous insurer doesn’t agree.

Subsidence and other types of ground movement

Information for financial businesses about how we handle and resolve complaints about subsidence claim.

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

It could get more complex if you change insurers now.

Subsidence and other types of ground movement

Information for financial businesses about how we handle and resolve complaints about subsidence claim.

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Yes. This is what I was always worried about. It's one of the reasons why I stuck with AXA.
I was never 100% sure they had really followed up all of my concerns, but thought I could at least re-open the old case (as I already did once and tried to a third time - but was dismissed). I am just worried now that I didn't leave a proper 'paper trail' to cover my back.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Another thing that concerns me is that if they were willing to twice throw the redecorating cost on my claim (which can't have been cheap), then any actual subsidence work must be so crazy expensive that I would never be able to afford it should they not be willing to pay.

 

[platinumsage]

Hang on, are you still with AXA? If so they can't claim they weren't informed about previous claims for subsidence, they knew all about it, so your box-ticking or lack thereof can't be held against you.

 

[kalidarkone]

Another thing that concerns me is that if they were willing to twice throw the redecorating cost on my claim (which can't have been cheap), then any actual subsidence work must be so crazy expensive that I would never be able to afford it should they not be willing to pay.

Proper subsidence work, under pinning, going down to the foundations- 20k easy....I've got an article somewhere about why they don't do it.....I'll dig it out...

 

[kalidarkone]

Are subsidence policies all they're cracked up to be?

The big insurers are now offloading these difficult claims to companies that prefer cheaper, and often less effective, solutions

www.theguardian.com

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Hang on, are you still with AXA? If so they can't claim they weren't informed about previous claims for subsidence, they knew all about it, so your box-ticking or lack thereof can't be held against you.

Yes I am still with them. . . but would that hold up in court?
Seems like they have all the power on their side.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Are subsidence policies all they're cracked up to be?

The big insurers are now offloading these difficult claims to companies that prefer cheaper, and often less effective, solutions

www.theguardian.com

This sounds very much like what has happened to me.

'Insurers nowadays tend to remove trees, repair the property then wait for it to crack again before underpinning. This wait-and-see policy can be frustrating for people who want to move house.'

It very much now makes me think that this is actually more of the same thing I claimed for back in 2014. I'm not sure what to do. I would definitely want to reference my 2014 claim, but am very much worried about them saying I nullified my insurance by not mention clicking that there had been subsidence in the last 10 years. . . . even though this was under their own recommendation and they probably didn't fix the subsidence, I don't know how I could possibly fight that if they just told me 'NO'.