Brixton Somerleyton Road development, Ovalhouse and Brixton Green - funding, proposed rents etc

[Gramsci]

We've convinced some great organisations to locate on Somerleyton Road.

• The Ovalhouse Theatre will be moving to the Coldharbour Lane end, along with a creative hub for other Brixton creative and cultural organisations.

This is wrong for a start.

Ovalhouse were looking at the site before Brixton Green appeared on the scene. So how you can say you have convinced them to come here I dont know.

 

[ViolentPanda]

teuchter
Do a proper search next time, before making claims about deletion. The contributions from "Brixton Green" (i.e. Brad Carroll) are on this thread, posted under the username "brad".

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is wrong for a start.

Ovalhouse were looking at the site before Brixton Green appeared on the scene. So how you can say you have convinced them to come here I dont know.

They can say that because they're masseurs. They're massaging the reality to fit the narrative.

 

[Gramsci]

So why were their posts, a couple of years ago when they answered questions on U75, deleted?

I've seen enough of how the "moderation" works here to fully understand why they might want to stay away.

I would not take Brixton Greens word on this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Is BID part of it? Please no.

Think I saw their logo appended to some BG bumpf.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I would not take Brixton Greens word on this.

As I've just explained to him, the posts weren't deleted. It's merely that he has the search fu of a chihuahua with a head full of mezcal.

 

[Gramsci]

How can you claim to engage with and work with the community Brixton_Green when you have just said you won't debate on urban?

How can the community engage with Brixton green when emails and phone calls trying to raise issues are ignored?

I just noticed that:

but we will not engage in any online debate on Urban 75 or Brixton Buzz,

Nice. So someone from BG posts up but will not debate.

 

[Gramsci]

• At least 60 of the homes will be part of an extra care scheme for older people

The decision to relocate the older people from Fitch court was taken without any public consultation. It suddenly appeared on the plans more recently.

This was a decision taken by the Council. Whether its right or wrong is not the issue here.

Brixton Green had nothing to do with this.

 

[equationgirl]

I just noticed that:



Nice. So someone from BG posts up but will not debate.

Aye, bit rich of them, considering everything.

 

[Gramsci]

Somerleyton Road

Somerleyton Road is important to the Brixton community. It divides our town. The only access to the 1,600 (approx) homes in the Moorlands Triangle is via Coldharbour Lane or Somerleyton Passage (an unwelcoming alley). Somerleyton Road sits in one of the most deprived wards in the UK. The aim of local people is for a development that helps connect our town, provides truly affordable homes, jobs, sustainable development and improves quality of life.

7 years working hard to make this happen

In 2013, after 5 years of campaigning, Brixton Green convinced Lambeth Council to develop the road in partnership with the community. This was a hard slog. There were dozens of meetings and a lot of lobbying and work to prove what the community wanted was viable. It was touch and go at times. But we succeeded. Early next year construction is due to start.

Shaped by Brixton People

This is a development shaped by Brixton people:

• The project will pay its own way, and over its lifetime, and will not be a cost to Lambeth taxpayers
• There will be no 'poor doors'. The social and market rent housing will be mixed throughout.
• There will be over 300 new homes all for rent and all owned by a new housing cooperative.
• At least 60 of the homes will be part of an extra care scheme for older people
• 40% of the homes will have genuine low cost rents, the kind of rents that the Council sets. 50% of all the homes will be Affordable Homes, as defined by the government.
• The homes will be built to meet, and if possible exceed, the London Housing Design standards, with an aim for 100% of the homes to have dual aspect.
• There is an ambition for a high level of environmental sustainability in the build and use of resources.
• The layout of facilities and access to services is being structured to make it easier for people to look after each other.
• The scheme includes real job opportunities for local people.

Great organisations coming to Somerleyton Road

We've convinced some great organisations to locate on Somerleyton Road.

• The Ovalhouse Theatre will be moving to the Coldharbour Lane end, along with a creative hub for other Brixton creative and cultural organisations.
• One of the best chef’s school in the UK will be opening a satellite school and training restaurant on the site (98% of their graduates go straight into work in all types of catering, and business management).
• There will be an outside gym run by Blockworkout (a great business set up by some young entrepreneurial Brixton residents who were previously involved in gangs).

There will be a children's nursery, extra care housing for older people, hair training salon (a key community hub), and a community facility including café, rooms for health visitors and a flexible hall built in a way that its use can be maximised throughout the day.

The aim is to make sure that the maximum benefit is gained for the community from the development.

View full statement here

This is mixing up what the Council have been planning with BG.

Some in the Council were thinking of doing a Council led and funded scheme quite some time ago.

The thing is BG , whatever one might think of them, were unable to access funds to acquire the site and develop it. Only a Council has the ability to raise funds at a competitive rate over a long number of years.

Councils , not just Lambeth, were starting to think of new ways to build whilst retaining ownership of the land.

So its inaccurate of BG to say that they persuaded the Council to do this.

Its the Council taking the risk. As its the Council that will borrow the money to build the scheme.

As for the list of points about the development. Are BG saying here that all these points are down to them? Because they are not.

Some of the proposals for the Somerleyton Road project found there starting point in the Brixton Masterplan. The Brixton Masterplan was developed by the Council in consultation with local people. The Brixton Masterplan dealt with Somerleyton road in detail. I remember as I took part in that consultation process.

What I am saying is that the idea of developing Somerleyton road has a history. Its not all down to BG.

 

[teuchter]

teuchter
Do a proper search next time, before making claims about deletion. The contributions from "Brixton Green" (i.e. Brad Carroll) are on this thread, posted under the username "brad".

I wasn't making the claim, they were. I wanted to know the background. Thank you for pointing me to the relevant thread.

However, it is in the nature of deleted posts that they are...deleted. And not going to be there. So I can't determine what the truth is just from looking at the thread.

A skim reading of it confirms that they were met with the usual aggressive approach from the usual suspects. Which is fine. That's what happens here and I don't think it's always a bad thing. But I can understand why it might put them off engaging further, especially in the context of how the moderation (or lack thereof) is carried out here.

Seems like they could do with improving their communication strategies. And am aware that their version of events may be incomplete or even untrue. But I know how things go here and if they feel they have been misrepresented on here or Brixton Buzz then that seems 100% plausible to me.

 

[Gramsci]

I wasn't making the claim, they were. I wanted to know the background. Thank you for pointing me to the relevant thread.

However, it is in the nature of deleted posts that they are...deleted. And not going to be there. So I can't determine what the truth is just from looking at the thread.

A skim reading of it confirms that they were met with the usual aggressive approach from the usual suspects. Which is fine. That's what happens here and I don't think it's always a bad thing. But I can understand why it might put them off engaging further, especially in the context of how the moderation (or lack thereof) is carried out here.

Seems like they could do with improving their communication strategies. And am aware that their version of events may be incomplete or even untrue. But I know how things go here and if they feel they have been misrepresented on here or Brixton Buzz then that seems 100% plausible to me.

Usual aggressive approach? Had a look at that old thread. Does not look like that to me. Compared to some of the bunfights here.

In fact some interesting posts by people who live in the vicinity.

Does not look to me that that deleted posts are down to mods. The ones I saw on quick look.

Nor do I agree with your criticism of the mods. This site would have collapsed long ago if the moderators had not been doing a good job of it.

In my quick look at that old thread did not see any comments from others that were in need of moderation. In actual compared to some threads they are pretty polite.

Agree with you on improving there communication strategies.

Out of interest have you had to deal with BG at any time? I have.

 

[Gramsci]

Brixton Green is fighting against gentrification

We have worked hard to find a viable solution where public land can be about people, not profit. Local authorities have a duty to get best value and there is the temptation for them to go with a private developer. It was a huge task to convince Lambeth Council to take a new approach from 2011 to 2013.

This project is not just important for Somerleyton Road, if we can prove a viable model it will be important for the whole of London. Public assets used to build homes for local people, provide jobs, empower local communities and improve their quality of life. Not sold off to developers.

There are plenty of private developers in London who are creating developments with 'poor doors' or no social housing. There are plenty of developments which cause all but the richer members of the community to move away from their family and friends. It is amazing that Mike Slocombe, Jason Cobb, Boyd Hill and Maria Santos are working so hard to discredit and spread rumours about a community project that aims to solve many of the challenging issues our community faces. They are spending their time and money attacking a community project rather than working to support the project and helping to make sure more of the community can be involved.

View full statement here

This post is confusing what Lambeth Council decided to do on the site with BG.

In fact Council in other parts of London have been setting up schemes where they retain ownership. Lambeth Council came to it later than others. I know they were looking at what other Councils were doing.

Initially the Council were thinking of getting a developer as a partner. I do not remember BG opposing this at the time.

I therefore find the statement incorrect to say that the named individuals are damaging a community project.

No they are not. The project is a Council led project. BG were chosen by Council as one of the partners.

To criticise BG is not to undermine the whole project. It is to criticise one of the "partners". This is an important difference.

The project will go ahead with or without BG.

To say that taking a critical position to BG is undermining the possibility of new homes etc is ridiculous.

 

[teuchter]

Usual aggressive approach? Had a look at that old thread. Does not look like that to me. Compared to some of the bunfights here.

In fact some interesting posts by people who live in the vicinity.

Does not look to me that that deleted posts are down to mods. The ones I saw on quick look.

Nor do I agree with your criticism of the mods. This site would have collapsed long ago if the moderators had not been doing a good job of it.

In my quick look at that old thread did not see any comments from others that were in need of moderation. In actual compared to some threads they are pretty polite.

Agree with you on improving there communication strategies.

Out of interest have you had to deal with BG at any time? I have.

No, I haven't dealt with them and don't know any of the people involved. I don't want to be automatically defending them.

With regard to the aggressive approach - well it's a kind of subjective thing of course, but just for example look at post no.100 on that thread onwards... pretty soon after Brad's first posts, a comment from him about Southwyck House "facing the wrong way" (the history of the proposed motorway etc being pretty well known locally) seems to be turned (within just a few posts) into an implication that he wants to knock it down! Clearly ludicrous and setting a stall out for a fight.

I think our difference in opinion about the nature of the moderation on the Brixton Forum can probably be put down to the fact that one of us is usually in agreement with the only acting moderator, and the other one often isn't. So you maybe aren't so familiar with what it feels like to be on the other end of an u75 argument with someone who has power over what you can and can't say. For someone posting in a "professional" context (or on behalf of a group of people, rather than just themselves as an anonymous forum nutter) that's quite a risky situation to get involved with.

 

[Gramsci]

No, I haven't dealt with them and don't know any of the people involved. I don't want to be automatically defending them.

With regard to the aggressive approach - well it's a kind of subjective thing of course,

I have had to deal with BG in the past and its not been a pleasant experience.

So in the context of my personal experience that why I say that old thread is restrained.

 

[Gramsci]

I think our difference in opinion about the nature of the moderation on the Brixton Forum can probably be put down to the fact that one of us is usually in agreement with the only acting moderator, and the other one often isn't. So you maybe aren't so familiar with what it feels like to be on the other end of an u75 argument with someone who has power over what you can and can't say. For someone posting in a "professional" context (or on behalf of a group of people, rather than just themselves as an anonymous forum nutter) that's quite a risky situation to get involved with.

fyi the Ed did once delete a post of mine.

I just didn’t whinge about it.

 

[editor]

Comments on Urban 75: A few years back Brixton Green spent half a day on the Urban 75 forum answering all the questions regarding the project. When all questions had been answered and errors put to right Mike Slocombe, the editor of Urban 75, deleted our answers then posted comments asking ‘why won’t Brixton Green our answer questions’.

This is a downright lie. No posts were deleted. None.

 

[editor]

A skim reading of it confirms that they were met with the usual aggressive approach from the usual suspects. Which is fine. That's what happens here and I don't think it's always a bad thing. But I can understand why it might put them off engaging further, especially in the context of how the moderation (or lack thereof) is carried out here.

Best get your facts straight before predictably steaming in. No posts of Brixton Green were deleted as described.

 

[editor]

With regard to the aggressive approach - well it's a kind of subjective thing of course, but just for example look at post no.100 on that thread onwards... pretty soon after Brad's first posts, a comment from him about Southwyck House "facing the wrong way" (the history of the proposed motorway etc being pretty well known locally) seems to be turned (within just a few posts) into an implication that he wants to knock it down! Clearly ludicrous and setting a stall out for a fight.

Brixton Green were interviewed in an article from Feb 2012 called "Postcode en vogue: Is Brixton property worth investment?" That article contained a claim that Southwyck House was to be demolished alongside the regeneration of Somerleyton Road.

Given that it appeared to be part of the same plan that BG had "successfully lobbied the council for access to ", I wanted to know what their involvement was and when these plans were first suggested.

I believe that is an entirely reasonable request from someone who has just learned second hand - that their house may be demolished, so I wanted some reassurances from BG about these plans. Sadly Brad was not forthcoming.

With the GLC planning a flyover in Brixton next to Somerleyton Road, Southwyck House was built to protect the street from noise and pollution. The project abandoned, Brixton’s flyover was never built, but Southwyck House remained.

The rather imposing, horse-shoe shape block of flats have since been dubbed the Barrier Block and have remained a thorn in Brixton’s side ever since.

But now Lambeth Council has big plans to demolish Southwyck House and regenerate Somerleyton Road.

What the council didn’t account for, though, is Brixton’s new Brixton-loving community. Headed up by Brad Carroll, Brixton Green is a community-led organisation that has successfully lobbied the council for access to their regeneration plans. With the MP Tessa Jowell as patron, the group has ambitious plans for the area and is determined to transform it.

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...rixton-property-worth-investment/1815.article

 

[editor]

Other users of Urban 75 have gone further and have contacted politicians and organisations we work with in an attempt to discredit this community initiative.

I think you mean "other Brixton residents" there. How do you know they were urban users, by the way?

 

[editor]

Our trustees are happy to meet anyone to discuss the Somerleyton Road project, but we will not engage in any online debate on Urban 75 or Brixton Buzz, because when we tried to do this in good faith, the information has been taken down or misrepresented.

No material concerning Brixton Green has ever been taken down off Brixton Buzz, neither have any posts been removed from urban75. If you want any credibility here, please get your facts straight before throwing around groundless accusations.

 

[editor]

In recent weeks there appears to have been a lot of misinformation about Brixton Green and the Somerleyton Road Project published in the Brixton Buzz, Urban 75 and the Brixton Come Together Facebook pages.

For the record: if you'd asked, we would have been happy to have reposted your statement on Brixton Buzz.

I see that you've now spammed it all over multiple posts, so there's no point.

 

[editor]

teuchter
Do a proper search next time, before making claims about deletion. The contributions from "Brixton Green" (i.e. Brad Carroll) are on this thread, posted under the username "brad".

That's correct. No posts were mass-deleted, as claimed.

For the record, if any mod did try to unilaterally delete a load of posts for no good reason (or on a personal whim), the following would have happened:
(a) several other mods would have demanded to know why, as randomly deleting posts is against our own rules.
(b) loads of posters would have noticed and demanded to know what had happened.

There is no record of this happening because it didn't happen. Brixton Green are lying.

And just in case there's any doubt: I want brad's posts to stay online because I think they're fairly damning of his organisation's attitude toward their engagement with the local community - and I want others to be able to read it too. It's of historical importance.

 

[editor]

I think our difference in opinion about the nature of the moderation on the Brixton Forum can probably be put down to the fact that one of us is usually in agreement with the only acting moderator, and the other one often isn't. So you maybe aren't so familiar with what it feels like to be on the other end of an u75 argument with someone who has power over what you can and can't say. For someone posting in a "professional" context (or on behalf of a group of people, rather than just themselves as an anonymous forum nutter) that's quite a risky situation to get involved with.

Please take this disruptive, thinly veiled personal beef to the feedback forum.

And, to repeat, no posts of Brixton Green's were mass deleted. NONE.

 

[teuchter]

Brixton Green were interviewed in an article from Feb 2012 called "Postcode en vogue: Is Brixton property worth investment?" That article contained a claim that Southwyck House was to be demolished alongside the regeneration of Somerleyton Road.

Given that it appeared to be part of the same plan that BG had "successfully lobbied the council for access to ", I wanted to know what their involvement was and when these plans were first suggested.

I believe that is an entirely reasonable request from someone who has just learned second hand - that their house may be demolished, so I wanted some reassurances from BG about these plans. Sadly Brad was not forthcoming.

Interesting that you wanted, in April 2011, to query the contents of an article from the future.

 

[editor]

Interesting that you wanted, in April 2011, to query the contents of an article from the future.

Brad - and Brixton Green - were talking about "addressing the issue" of the street frontage of the Barrier Block in April 2011.

Oh, and it wasn't me bringing up the myth of the block being built the wrong way around.

 

[editor]

For the record, it was brad himself who appears to have deleted the contents of several of his posts here:

From: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-somerleyton-road.271475/page-4#post-10081461

I think the thread makes for interesting reading too. There's some very patient posters on there.

 

[editor]

Over 1,200 members of the Brixton community are members of Brixton Green
Brixton Green is owned by Brixton people. Brixton Green has achieved the rare success of keeping a wide cross section of the community involved in a long term project. Many community projects succeed in getting short term interest, but few can maintain democratic representation over the long term.

Given that Brixton Green said that they were looking to recruit at least 5,000 new members way back in 2011 this slow growth would suggest that they have singularly failed to maintain any interest in their scheme.

And how does this low take-up tally with their "target of recruiting 7,500 members and raising an initial £150,000 of share capital in 2010"?

Any thoughts on this, BG?

 

[Tricky Skills]

we have nothing to hide, and welcome questions, challenge and scrutiny.

If this is the case then why have you ignored all attempts by me to contact you over the past month as part of the research for a Brixton Buzz story?

In recent weeks, it has reported a number of false statements about Brixton Green.

What are these false statements?

Brixton Green is owned by Brixton people.

How many residents do you claim to represent please? What mandate do you have to represent Brixton?

Somerleyton Road is important to the Brixton community. It divides our town.

We are agreed on that one...

There were dozens of meetings and a lot of lobbying and work to prove what the community wanted was viable

Can you please outline the viability of your model. Who is it viable for? The Council? The 'community' that you claim to represent? Brixton Green?

There will be over 300 new homes all for rent and all owned by a new housing cooperative.

Does Brixton Green have ambitions to 'manage' this housing co-op?

The Green Man Skills Zone taking over management of Number Six is part of this.

Who made the decision for Green Man to take over No. 6? Why is this happening at this particular point in time?

It is amazing that Mike Slocombe, Jason Cobb, Boyd Hill and Maria Santos are working so hard to discredit and spread rumours about a community project that aims to solve many of the challenging issues our community faces. They are spending their time and money attacking a community project rather than working to support the project and helping to make sure more of the community can be involved.

Gosh.

Spending time is what it takes to research and write pieces for a community website. As for spending money - what money? Seriously - WHAT MONEY? Why does it always come down to money for you guys? I haven't spent a penny in writing the posts about Brixton Green. Please clarify what you mean.

Brixton Green’s trustees are always willing to answer questions, if information is not clear on our website:

This clearly isn't true. Once again - you have completely ignored all my attempts at communication whilst researching stories for Brixton Buzz.

Other users of Urban 75 have gone further and have contacted politicians and organisations we work with in an attempt to discredit this community initiative.

Isn't this called accountability?

The accusations regarding Brixton Green's finances are also untrue.

This wasn't an 'accusation' - it was a genuine question about your accounts.

Jason Cobb has also made accusations that Brixton Green has been "pocketing" money from Lambeth Council.

Complete nonsense. Where did I use the emotive word 'pocketing?'

Here's the wording that was used:

"Lambeth Council spending data shows that Brixton Green was awarded £4,400 from the Council in April 2014, followed by two payments in May 2014 for £4,960 and £4,999. We wonder what were these payments were for?"

Brixton Green introduced the term 'pocketing', not me.

The programme period finishes on the 8th July.

This is not true. The requirements of the funding stated that it had to be delivered by April 2015.

For an organisation that like to put across the feeling of 'engagement', it would be good to know who has made many of the allegations above? Brad Carroll?

If so, please can you reply to the email that I sent to you on 1 June:

"I am researching a news story for Brixton Buzz about some of the recent activities involving Brixton Green. I would appreciate if you could clarify some points please.

(i) Is Director Brad Carroll the same individual that was associated with Annie-Mail Ltd?

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/907099755

If so, can you confirm please that the company folded with £300,000 worth of debt?"

By the way - you contact form STILL isn't working on your engaging community website. Seeing as though you have had the right of reply on both BBuzz and Urban, it would be decent to allow others to respond to your accusations on your site.

Please let me know how this can be achieved.

Thank you.

 

[snowy_again]

With a pedantic hat on @trickyskills your last point re. timeframe for delivery - you're quoting from the application form BG submitted. That's not the contract issued by Award for All as I've mentioned earlier to you earlier. At the time AfA was taking months longer than anticipated to assess and award grants - so it's highly feasible that they were awarded the grant, and then received the grant later than the stated project start date - at no fault of their own. BG can also negotiate project length periods. All perfectly acceptable in AfA conditions. Afa projects need to be completed within 18 months of the date of the payment. So BG are within their agreed time limit with the funder. You've better things to be focussing on than this moot issue.

(the rest are all valid to some degree or another - I'll try to find the time later to respond)