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Brixton news, rumour and general chat - May 2014

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Rushy said:
Well - except that they don't need to thrown in a few extra quid.

I'm not quite sure where jogging ends and running begins. But running has a perfectly working class history - although more so up north (funnily enough, where more mines and factories exist than in London cuppa tee). Particularly fell running which is very much seen as a community sport.
Click to expand...

Competitive running & running clubs (like 'amateur athletics' in general) also have a history of excluding working class athletes who failed to qualify for 'amateur' status:

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/john-tarrant-sad-shadow-of-the-ghost-runner-still-stalks-the-track-2305959.html[/URL]

[URL='http://[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tarrant_(athlete'][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tarrant_(athlete)[/URL]

Not sure that has much relevance to the current 'do joggers = gentrification?' debate but it's a fascinating story all the same.[/URL]
 
Manter said:
I do that too, but the evidence is that for optimum health you need a mixture of exercise types, including high intensity cardio, load bearing, toning etc. I know I feel better if I push it a bit, rather than just walking briskly between points. My mood is noticeably better after really strenuous exercise, preferably outside- the sort that makes your muscles shake afterwards, and leaves you stuff the next day.

Which all sounds slightly suggestive :hmm:
Click to expand...

But it's true though isn't it? It's where this conversation started a few pages back, hot sweaty people in tight fitting clothing look attractive, one wants to mate with them. Biology innit?
 
boohoo said:
Perceptions don't change very easily. I will not be taking up jogging because I'm shit at it. As much as everyone can bang on about how lovely exercise is, if your only experience of sports and exercise is school and that wasn't a good experience, how do you encourage people to get past that?
Click to expand...

boohoo said:
I have been lucky enough to find some exercise to do that I enjoy. And because the classes have no expectation about the participants getting things right, I don't feel under pressure.
Click to expand...

You seem to be of the impression that I am suggesting that you - or others - should run. I am not. Most people don't run. Most middle class people don't run. There are plenty of other forms of exercise to choose from. Or you can choose to be sentient as many people from across the classes do. I don't care care which you choose as long as you make your choice freely.

The comment was made that jogging is a sign of gentrification. And the question is - why? Particularly given that it is free, why is running not as popular amongst the less affluent. You seem to think that it is predominantly a matter of perception. And so the question is, why is the perception different across the classes? cuppa tee seems to think this is rooted in the physical working demands on lives of the dockworkers et al of previous generations (although the contrast with hard working farmers I did not entirely understand - both are hugely physically demanding). Maybe hard physical labour is the true origin of the perception - it is quite plausible.

But London's working classes today are largely in non physical jobs and have been for a long time. Even those involved in previously physical work have a lot of the hard yakka done by machines- e.g. warehouse work, utilities diggers. If people are limited by their own perceptions of what is appropriate for the class they want to associate with would it not be good to challenge rather than perpetuate these beliefs? Is it critical to the identity of the working classes that they see running as unavialable to them? Who is benefiting from the belief that running - a pretty much free sport - is "exclusive" to the middle classes?

No one is saying anyone must run. But I cannot see any logical reason - other than habit - why working classes should be proportionally less attracted to the idea of running in modern London.
 
 
Dexter Deadwood said:
But it's true though isn't it? It's where this conversation started a few pages back, hot sweaty people in tight fitting clothing look attractive, one wants to mate with them. Biology innit?
Click to expand...
Gyms are infinitely better for ogling fit birds. You can have a nice sit down & pretend to do stretches whilst they jiggle pleasingly on the treadmills.
 
When is the 'mending stuff' thing that was in southwyck house before.
It was posted on this thread I think but i'm on a crappy phone today and a few folk were asking me..
 
Ms Ordinary said:
Competitive running & running clubs (like 'amateur athletics' in general) also have a history of excluding working class athletes who failed to qualify for 'amateur' status:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...st-runner-still-stalks-the-track-2305959.html
http://[URL]http://www.independent....st-runner-still-stalks-the-track-2305959.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tarrant_(athlete)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tarrant_(athlete']Not sure that has much relevance to the current 'do joggers = gentrification?' debate but it's a fascinating story all the same.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about that to be honest. I haven't been involved with the AAA since school days. But the examples you've given go a long way back - I think it is fair to say that opportunities are quite different now for those who want / can become elite.
 
Rushy said:
You seem to be of the impression that I am suggesting that you - or others - should run. I am not. Most people don't run. Most middle class people don't run. There are plenty of other forms of exercise to choose from. Or you can choose to be sentient as many people from across the classes do. I don't care care which you choose as long as you make your choice freely.

The comment was made that jogging is a sign of gentrification. And the question is - why? Particularly given that it is free, why is running not as popular amongst the less affluent. You seem to think that it is predominantly a matter of perception. And so the question is, why is the perception different across the classes? cuppa tee seems to think this is rooted in the physical working demands on lives of the dockworkers et al of previous generations (although the contrast with hard working farmers I did not entirely understand - both are hugely physically demanding). Maybe hard physical labour is the true origin of the perception - it is quite plausible.

But London's working classes today are largely in non physical jobs and have been for a long time. Even those involved in previously physical work have a lot of the hard yakka done by machines- e.g. warehouse work, utilities diggers. If people are limited by their own perceptions of what is appropriate for the class they want to associate with would it not be good to challenge rather than perpetuate these beliefs? Is it critical to the identity of the working classes that they see running as unavialable to them? Who is benefiting from the belief that running - a pretty much free sport - is "exclusive" to the middle classes?

No one is saying anyone must run. But I cannot see any logical reason - other than habit - why working classes should be proportionally less attracted to the idea of running in modern London.
Click to expand...

I don't know the answers. And all because I saw joggers as a sign of gentrification - like going over to pat a dog and getting my leg chewed off.

A possible scenario:

Boohoo: Excuse me, are you working class?
Person: I think I am
Boohoo: did you know that you shouldn't be limited by your perception that jogging is a middle class pastime?
Person: huh?
Boohoo: Running is available to you. TO EVERYONE!!
Person: you wot?
Boohoo: It's not "exclusive" to the middle classes! Run free, working class man! RUN FREE!!!!
Person: nutter...

(Sorry Rushy - I can't give anymore thought on this as I am allowing it to distract me from proper stuff :) )
 
I seem to remember seeing studies (or was it an advert for a walking club?) that showed, broadly speaking, walking briskly for 5 miles was better for you than running the same distance but that they 'stretched' different things
 
Manter said:
I do that too, but the evidence is that for optimum health you need a mixture of exercise types, including high intensity cardio, load bearing, toning etc. I know I feel better if I push it a bit, rather than just walking briskly between points. My mood is noticeably better after really strenuous exercise, preferably outside- the sort that makes your muscles shake afterwards, and leaves you stuff the next day.

Which all sounds slightly suggestive :hmm:
Click to expand...
I walk so fast some people have to jog to keep up, and after a long, fast walk I am indeed a bit knackered. I walked around 95 miles during my 7 days in New York, so I reckon I notched up a decent amount of exercise there.
 
boohoo said:
Boohoo: Excuse me, are you working class?
Person: I think I am
Boohoo: did you know that you shouldn't be limited by your perception that jogging is a middle class pastime?
Person: huh?
Boohoo: Running is available to you. TO EVERYONE!!
Person: you wot?
Boohoo: It's not "exclusive" to the middle classes! Run free, working class man! RUN FREE!!!!
Person: nutter...
Click to expand...
I can attest to this being an accurate transcript of boohoo's normal interactions with strangers.
 
boohoo said:
I don't know the answers. And all because I saw joggers as a sign of gentrification - like going over to pat a dog and getting my leg chewed off.

Boohoo: Excuse me, are you working class?
Person: I think I am
Boohoo: did you know that you shouldn't be limited by your perception that jogging is a middle class pastime?
Person: huh?
Boohoo: Running is available to you. TO EVERYONE!!
Person: you wot?
Boohoo: It's not "exclusive" to the middle classes! Run free, working class man! RUN FREE!!!!
Person: nutter...

(Sorry Rushy - I can't give anymore thought on this as I am allowing it to distract me from proper stuff :) )
Click to expand...

That would indeed be an odd conversation. I think "Person" would be best left in the darkness of their mis-perception. Just for my reassurance, you are not involved in any community sports engagement projects, are you?:)
 
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I am originally from a country where one of the only viable sports / keep fit regimens is jogging-running, as everything else uses equipment that it is price prohibitive or blown up by ruling colonial army. So hearing that jogging is now apparently a posh activity brings a huge smile to my face. If only my friends and family back home could hear this.
 
uk benzo said:
I am originally from a country where one of the only viable sports / keep fit regimens is jogging-running, as everything else uses equipment that it is price prohibitive or blown up by ruling colonial army. So hearing that jogging is now apparently a posh activity brings a huge smile to my face. If only my friends and family back home could hear this.
Click to expand...
It's not a 'posh activity' per se, but some of the people you'll see out jogging in some areas have spent rather a lot of money on their gear.
 
editor said:
It's not a 'posh activity', but some of the people you'll see out jogging in some areas have spent rather a lot of money on their gear.
Click to expand...

But it shouldn't matter to you or me what other people wear when they go jogging. If they want to spend silly money on useless equipment, so be it.

And to be fair, I've seen kids out in the street wear bloody expensive trainers that I know that I couldn't afford. I personally think that society as a whole has been programmed to spend spend spend- irrespective of socioeconomic background.
 
Back in the day, you would get slaughtered for wearing Dunlop or Gola but not now. The posh will take the retro bags but not the trainers, oh no, not the trainers. Any pair of trainers is expensive nowadays. I just bought a pair of snazzy bright green Adidas Duramo 6 because i needed them for my active lifestyle and they were reduced in price to £35. Brixton is bad for footwear had to go to Croydon.
 
Rushy said:
cuppa tee seems to think this is rooted in the physical working demands on lives of the dockworkers et al of previous generations (although the contrast with hard working farmers I did not entirely understand - both are hugely physically demanding).
Click to expand...
Rushy allow me to clarify, my point about fell running was in reply to your assertation that
fell running is a popular community sport in the industrial north
Click to expand...
whereas in actual fact it is practised in the Dales and the Lake District which are not exactly the industrial heartland the community aspect came from the popularity of physical contests at agriculural shows.... of course both agricultural and industrial activities are physically tiring so people who had the choice would probably not choose to go for a little jog after work, in fact i think to compare tanking up an almost vertical rocky hillside with trotting round the local park plugged into a n ipod with a sunshade on and a isotonic drink in hand is plain ludicrous.......
 
Effra Road is closed after what looks like a collision between a motorcycle and a car. The fire brigade are cutting out a driver now.
 
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