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Brixton news, rumour and general chat - Aug 2015

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So Lambeth have banned things that aren't illegal and don't even exist yet? :hmm:
Yep - completely and utterly Lambeth, even by the council's usual standards.
Cllr Edbrooke doesn't have such an authoritarian streak when it comes to alcohol. As a member of the Licensing Committee she voted in favour of the new Sainsbury's opposite Stockwell station having a 7am alcohol licence. The previous licence when the shop traded as Jacks was for 11am. The Met Police argued against the 7am licence. <snip>
Stop oppressing councillors by expecting them to heed scientific data, including decades of medical statistics.

Whatever you or I choose to take isn't regarded as remotely okay unless it's also what the establishment chooses to take. All of us should switch to nose candy and expensive booze (which is obv safer than the cheaper stuff - stands to reason - a man in the pub told me). :thumbs:
 
How can you enforce a ban of a legal substance? What if you just really really like cream and you are walking through Lambeth with your monthly supply of cream propellant?

Good questions. The same thing has occurred to me regarding the law against the carrying of knives.

I shouldn't imagine such niceties will worry Lambeth overly though; if they don't like the cut of your jib law enforcers will simply enforce and assume they won't be challenged.
 
Good questions. The same thing has occurred to me regarding the law against the carrying of knives.

I shouldn't imagine such niceties will worry Lambeth overly though; if they don't like the cut of your jib law enforcers will simply enforce and assume they won't be challenged.
How though? If it's not illegal, who enforces the ban? If I was a vendor and some official who wasn't a cop asked me to stop selling it, I'd laugh in his face and challenge him to make me.
 
Sorry for the interlude but is the Bombay Inn open again?

It's had the following message on the website http://www.bombayinn.co.uk for a while and is still there

Due to a family bereavement we will be closed for the next few months. Mr Uddin apologises for any inconvenience caused during this time, we hope you understand.

Just got a money off email which I'm very tempted by....

Although I'll order a bit of Khans' for a change... the Bombay has really been my staple for the past 10 years.
 
Sorry for the interlude but is the Bombay Inn open again?

It's had the following message on the website http://www.bombayinn.co.uk for a while and is still there



Just got a money off email which I'm very tempted by....

Although I'll order a bit of Khans' for a change... the Bombay has really been my staple for the past 10 years.

Appalling story: their 17-year-old son was stabbed to death in a row over a bicycle.
 
Banning legal highs now and in the future is an utterly nebulous statement (the clue is in the name). Even the online definitions aren't that clear.

It's the equivalent of saying 'down with this sort of thing'.

eta: so the question in the consultation about whether 'you have been affected by anti-social behaviour as a result of legal highs' could just be about litter. which is a very different thing to 'drug use'.

I seem to remember, about 1999, Lambeth "banned" street drinking. There was a "drink-in" protest against it in Tate Gardens, before it was called Windrush Square, and then, well..... nothing
 
How though? If it's not illegal, who enforces the ban? If I was a vendor and some official who wasn't a cop asked me to stop selling it, I'd laugh in his face and challenge him to make me.
And then you have your licence reviewed on some pretext or other or similar I guess
 
It's used in food prep. The only person I know with a large supply sells it to hotels.
OK, but I'm not sure what point you are making about licences when the vendors most likely don't have them in the first place. They're just enterprising young/poor people like most street dealers, legal or not. They're not going to be applying for trading licences.
So we're still in the dark about how Lambeth propose to ban people from selling them without involving the police.
 
How can you enforce a ban of a legal substance? What if you just really really like cream and you are walking through Lambeth with your monthly supply of cream propellant?

Because its being done using an variant of the ASBO so beloved of Nu Labour. The ban is using the new Public Spaces Protection Orders


(1)A local authority may make a public spaces protection order if satisfied on reasonable grounds that two conditions are met.

(2)The first condition is that—

(a)activities carried on in a public place within the authority’s area have had a detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality, or

(b)it is likely that activities will be carried on in a public place within that area and that they will have such an effect.

By having a month long consultation and arguing there were complaints about the use of laughing gas Lambeth has decided to bring in a PSPO.

One of my disagrementa with it are that the wording of the PSPO is banning any legal highs now and in the future. Its not specifically aimed at laughing gas.

Which is why imo the Lambeth press office statement is misleading.

It says:

Lambeth council last night approved a crackdown on the use of legal highs such as ‘laughing gas’ in the borough.

Lambeth is now the first London borough to introduce a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO) to tackle laughing gas as a specific issue.

The move essentially bans the use and supply of legal highs in public areas across the whole borough and means anybody caught breaching the new order could face a maximum fine of £1000

The title of the piece however is:

Lambeth becomes the first borough to ban laughing gas

The consultation , such as it was, emphasised the complaints about the litter and alleged ASB caused by laughing gas. But the actual ban is about any legal high.

The legislation is about banning activities detrimental effect on quality of life of those who live in the area affected. This being Vauxhall and Clapham. Yet the ban is for whole of Lambeth.

Cllr Edbrooke says in the press release:

Cllr Jane Edbrooke, Lambeth’s cabinet member for Neighbourhoods, said: “Legal highs are simply not safe – we saw that just days ago with the death of a teenager who had inhaled laughing gas.

“It is our duty to keep our residents safe and this new order should deter people from supplying and using legal highs in the borough.

But the legislation is not about keeping people safe, whether that is something that should be done is another issue, its about quality of life. ie kinds of behaviour that may impinge on others in a specified area that reduces the quality of there life. Its not about protecting individuals from there own behaviour that may endanger them.

Another issue I have with the use of these new PSPO is that they obviate the need for a properly democratic debate about drug legislation. The fact that in law its not a criminal offence to do a certain act does not stop a local authority from bringing in a fine for doing it in public. With little in the way of consultation. Its not even needed to be debated at a full Council from what I can see. To edit the Cabinet agreed it but thats just a rubber stamp.

A month long time to fill in a questionnaire that was heavily skewed towards getting support fro a ban is not enough.

In fact I would say the Councils should not use PSPOs.

If there is anti social behaviour it can be dealt with under existing laws.

Cllr Edbrookes assertion that Council has a duty to keep residents safe is not what this legislation is supposed to be about.


.
 
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Googling PSPO and a lot comes up.

Here is one


Other clauses in the bill include Public Space Protection Orders (clause 55), which allow local authorities to ban any activity which has a ‘negative effect on the quality of life’ of the area. This ban can be applied to particular groups or individuals, and can also impose conditions with which such groups must comply. This is drafted so broadly it could target anything from sleeping rough, collecting for charity, public drinking, begging, feeding pigeons, or smoking in parks. Indeed, the lead civil servant agrees that the law could be used against groups ‘if there is a localised issue’, such as a ‘group of Goths’ or ‘twentysomethings listening to music in a park’.

At base, this bill represents a revolution in law-making, creating an unprecedented form of blank-cheque state power. The aim is explicit: rather than create specific powers, it seeks to remove limitations to local authorities’ actions. The civil servant says: ‘We don’t want to put too many constraints in the legislation.’ Well, there is no danger of that.

So expect more of this from Lambeth. I wonder what will be next?
 
I seem to remember, about 1999, Lambeth "banned" street drinking. There was a "drink-in" protest against it in Tate Gardens, before it was called Windrush Square, and then, well..... nothing

Apparently in 2015 it is still illegal to drink from an open container in a public space anywhere in Lambeth. I find this incredibly hard to believe. It also highlights the absurdity of Cllr Edbrooke's attempt to do something similar with legal highs.

From the Stockwell Park Neighbourhood Watch newsletter, July 25, 2015:

"Stockwell Ward Panel

Points of interest from our public meeting on 14 July:

PC Knight points out that begging is a criminal offence, grabbing an arm (as in persistent begging) is an assault, and it is an offence to have an open container of alcohol anywhere in Lambeth in a public space.

He is asking for information on any such offence observed by members of the public, with a simple description of the person, time and date."

I confess to committing an offence at the Lambeth Country Show this year.

Apologies.
 
On a lighter note, I spotted 2 Brixton councillors at the Proms tonight.

Cllrs Atkins and Dyer were standing in the Royal Albert Hall arena along with other plebs like myself. The main piece was Shostakovich's 15th Symphony.

Sadly the closest Lambeth councillors get to socialism these days is a Soviet symphony @ £5 per ticket courtesy of the BBC.
 
Apparently in 2015 it is still illegal to drink from an open container in a public space anywhere in Lambeth. I find this incredibly hard to believe. It also highlights the absurdity of Cllr Edbrooke's attempt to do something similar with legal highs.

From the Stockwell Park Neighbourhood Watch newsletter, July 25, 2015:

"Stockwell Ward Panel

Points of interest from our public meeting on 14 July:

PC Knight points out that begging is a criminal offence, grabbing an arm (as in persistent begging) is an assault, and it is an offence to have an open container of alcohol anywhere in Lambeth in a public space.

He is asking for information on any such offence observed by members of the public, with a simple description of the person, time and date."

I confess to committing an offence at the Lambeth Country Show this year.

Apologies.

What is interesting is that the Police don't have a clue about the law they enforce. There is NOT a street drinking ban, it IS legal to have an open container, if it wasn't then all those in Brockwell park having a nice glass of chilled white with their picnic would be illegal.

It is a power they have to remove open containers if the person is being a nuisance (can't recall the exact wording this is a paraphrase) if they automatically remove open containers then they are abusing their authority and haven't a fucking clue about doing their job properly.

Were the results of the public 'consultation' on legal highs published? can't find them.
 
Apparently in 2015 it is still illegal to drink from an open container in a public space anywhere in Lambeth. I find this incredibly hard to believe. It also highlights the absurdity of Cllr Edbrooke's attempt to do something similar with legal highs.

From the Stockwell Park Neighbourhood Watch newsletter, July 25, 2015:

"Stockwell Ward Panel

Points of interest from our public meeting on 14 July:

PC Knight points out that begging is a criminal offence, grabbing an arm (as in persistent begging) is an assault, and it is an offence to have an open container of alcohol anywhere in Lambeth in a public space.

He is asking for information on any such offence observed by members of the public, with a simple description of the person, time and date."

I confess to committing an offence at the Lambeth Country Show this year.

Apologies.
Blimey, I have 'broken the law 'repeatedly at the show, and at a series of picnics....
 
I wonder if one could legally drink from this... Not that I'm going to stop drinking from a can whenever the fuck I want...

grolsch-high-quality.jpg
 
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