Brixton Brewery to partner with Heineken and move to bigger premises

[editor]

And what the fuck is a "boutique" brewery anyway? That's twat-speak.

 

[alcopop]

Don’t you just hate it when local businesses succeed

 

[editor]

Don’t you just hate it when local businesses succeed

It's a shame you've decided to ignore the discussion about what constitutes an independent business and post up an idiotic comment. Oh well. Well done.

 

[alex_]

But that doesn't answer the question of whether a brewery that is 49% owned by one of the biggest brewing companies in the world can really be seen as a "boutique" independent business.

No, there is no conceivable way they can be seen as boutique or independent.

Even the 49% is selected to be the maximum amount you can own, whilst still able to make some claim to be independent.

The interesting question is if any of this matters?

Brixton are/will be a big local employer who have appeared from nowhere.

However they are building the “Brixton” brand in a way which may be seen as undesireable.

Also

 

[CH1]

No, there is no conceivable way they can be seen as boutique or independent.
Even the 49% is selected to be the maximum amount you can own, whilst still able to make some claim to be independent.
The interesting question is if any of this matters?
Brixton are/will be a big local employer who have appeared from nowhere.
However they are building the “Brixton” brand in a way which may be seen as undesireable.

I think there is also a discussion to be had on business finance models.

Heineken have for years expanded their own business by buying up stakes in local breweries which retain their names and local character.

From the small brewery point of view the question is this - is this form of arrangement with Heineken worse than borrowing money for expansion from say the Royal Bank of Scotland, and ending up in the RBS Global Restructuring Group if the bank falls on hard times?

 

[djdando]

Yay! More successful business bashing. You’re an embarrassment mate.

 

[alex_]

I think there is also a discussion to be had on business finance models.

Heineken have for years expanded their own business by buying up stakes in local breweries which retain their names and local character.

From the small brewery point of view the question is this - is this form of arrangement with Heineken worse than borrowing money for expansion from say the Royal Bank of Scotland, and ending up in the RBS Global Restructuring Group if the bank falls on hard times?

Also ownership by a mega brewer brings them access to world class skills in all sorts of areas which they require if they are going to expand.

Equally the mega brewer is going to see this as a strategic long term investment, and be much more of a sympathetic owner than rbs

Alex

 

[Rushy]

Also ownership by a mega brewer brings them access to world class skills in all sorts of areas which they require if they are going to expand.

Alex

And, even more importantly, the very widest and best established distribution channels.

 

[aka]

I think there is also a discussion to be had on business finance models.

Heineken have for years expanded their own business by buying up stakes in local breweries which retain their names and local character.

From the small brewery point of view the question is this - is this form of arrangement with Heineken worse than borrowing money for expansion from say the Royal Bank of Scotland, and ending up in the RBS Global Restructuring Group if the bank falls on hard times?

No, it isn't.

 

[alex_]

No, it isn't.

No on which bit ?

 

[CH1]

No on which bit ?

I think aka is agreeing that it's better to be in bed with Heineken that bankrupted by a rapacious bank!

 

[alex_]

I think aka is agreeing that it's better to be in bed with Heineken that bankrupted by a rapacious bank!

Though I suspect that if things go badly the results will be the same, but I’d imagine that Heineken would be very keen that it looks like the founders are treated well. if they aren’t, future sellers will hold out for more money.

Alex

 

[editor]

Yay! More successful business bashing. You’re an embarrassment mate.

Where have I 'bashed' them?

 

[editor]

I think there is also a discussion to be had on business finance models.

Heineken have for years expanded their own business by buying up stakes in local breweries which retain their names and local character.

From the small brewery point of view the question is this - is this form of arrangement with Heineken worse than borrowing money for expansion from say the Royal Bank of Scotland, and ending up in the RBS Global Restructuring Group if the bank falls on hard times?

Loads of small breweries manage to carve out a very successful niche for themselves without pursuing aggressive expansion plans and selling up nearly half the company to a mega-corporate, with 'terribly racist' advertising.

I'm not sure why endless expansion, corporate buy-ins and bigger profits in Brixton is something I'm supposed to be celebrating. What's wrong with small and local?

 

[alex_]

Where have I 'bashed' them?

You haven’t.

You asked a question about at what % of ownership they could be considered “craft”.

So far more people have reacted badly to your question than engaged with it.

Alex

 

[aka]

No on which bit ?

Sorry, should have been more specific. 'No it isn't' refers to "is this form of arrangement with Heineken worse".

 

[aka]

I think aka is agreeing that it's better to be in bed with Heineken that bankrupted by a rapacious bank!

Ganz genau!

 

[CH1]

I'm not sure why endless expansion, corporate buy-ins and bigger profits in Brixton is something I'm supposed to be celebrating. What's wrong with small and local?

I agree with this in principle.

At present people always seem to want to "grow" their businesses.

In addition the business model for people like Network Rail's arches is to have an inflating rent - so in fact if the business doesn't grow in those circumstances it will actually shrink.

 

[alex_]

I agree with this in principle.

At present people always seem to want to "grow" their businesses.

In addition the business model for people like Network Rail's arches is to have an inflating rent - so in fact if the business doesn't grow in those circumstances it will actually shrink.

I think most small breweries operate with pretty small margins, so growth is pretty important if you want a salary.

Alex

 

[editor]

I think most small breweries operate with pretty small margins, so growth is pretty important if you want a salary.

Alex

There's plenty of small breweries in existence who have managed to pay their staff without the need to keep on growing or do deals with multinational corporates.

 

[CH1]

There's plenty of small breweries in existence who have managed to pay their staff without the need to keep on growing or do deals with multinational corporates.

A lot of them do deal with Wetherspoons (nationally) believe it or not.

 

[aka]

A lot of them do deal with Wetherspoons (nationally) believe it or not.

No two carpets the same......
Tumblr

 

[editor]

A lot of them do deal with Wetherspoons (nationally) believe it or not.

I'm sure some of them do but that still doesn't mean they have to embark on a quest for endless growth and/or sell half the company to a multinational just to pay the bills.

 

[Twattor]

A lot of them do deal with Wetherspoons (nationally) believe it or not.

I understand that Wetherspoons aren't actually a good client - they have the equivalent buying power of a supermarket and are able to drive prices right down which is how they sell their beer so cheaply. Breweries get cash flow from regular sales, but in exchange for lost profit.

 

[editor]

I understand that Wetherspoons aren't actually a good client - they have the equivalent buying power of a supermarket and are able to drive prices right down which is how they sell their beer so cheaply. Breweries get cash flow from regular sales, but in exchange for lost profit.

Well, they're owned by an utter bellend.

 

[Twattor]

It feels a bit like when the major record companies started buying up cool indie labels or launching their own indie-looking labels.

Agreed. Is just history repeating itself though. Industrialisation of brewing killed off brewing as a home based industry; post-war rationing was another nail in the coffin for smaller breweries who couldn't get the efficiences; and then the lager boom and race to the bottom for tasteless insipid muck that could be mass produced and served by people with no skill allowed the multi-nations to dominate completely.

Now there's a boom in independents again and they are losing market share they don't like it and have the muscle to do something about it.

 

[editor]

Agreed. Is just history repeating itself though. Industrialisation of brewing killed off brewing as a home based industry; post-war rationing was another nail in the coffin for smaller breweries who couldn't get the efficiences; and then the lager boom and race to the bottom for tasteless insipid muck that could be mass produced and served by people with no skill allowed the multi-nations to dominate completely.

Now there's a boom in independents again and they are losing market share they don't like it and have the muscle to do something about it.

Praise to be to the small independents who are happy to stay doing what they're doing and don't get caught up in the uber-capitalist mantra of endless expansion, bigger turnover and synergestic deals with multi-nationals!

 

[CH1]

I understand that Wetherspoons aren't actually a good client - they have the equivalent buying power of a supermarket and are able to drive prices right down which is how they sell their beer so cheaply. Breweries get cash flow from regular sales, but in exchange for lost profit.

They seems to buy in batches from loads of sources. I would be interested to know what small brewers say about them.

Since you are well versed in the matter, what of Battersea based SamBrooks Brewery? The Beehive usually has several of their beers on.
Looks as though SamBrooks might be worth £500,000 - £1 million, but they only file very abbreviated accounts and they are running late (but within the legal limit).

Pertinent to my argument above is that Sambrooks are mortgaged to the hilt with HSBC.
Which is fine - until HSBC have an attack of the vapours. As has happened before - such as 2014 when HSBC closed down a load of Muslim peoples accounts without giving any reason for example.

Personally I'd sooner trust Heineken than HSBC.

 

[Twattor]

They seems to buy in batches from loads of sources. I would be interested to know what small brewers say about them.

Don't know much personally, I'm afraid - just what I read on CAMRA's forum

Since you are well versed in the matter, what of Battersea based SamBrooks Brewery? The Beehive usually has several of their beers on.
Looks as though SamBrooks might be worth £500,000 - £1 million, but they only file very abbreviated accounts and they are running late (but within the legal limit).

Pertinent to my argument above is that Sambrooks are mortgaged to the hilt with HSBC.
Which is fine - until HSBC have an attack of the vapours. As has happened before - such as 2014 when HSBC closed down a load of Muslim peoples accounts without giving any reason for example.

Personally I'd sooner trust Heineken than HSBC.

Not a fan of Sambrooks - with a couple of exceptions I find their beers uninspiring. By the way, have you ever noticed that most of these small breweries are run by former city folks who have made their money elsewhere? Sambrook is ex Deloitte.

If they are servicing massive loans then cash flow will be all the more important and a guaranteed regular income from JDW may be more valuable to them than the lost profit that might have been gained from sales elsewhere.

 

[CH1]

Further to the Brixton Brewery issue Heineken have now added Beavertown to their "stable" of craft beer interests.
According to this, Beavertown Brewery is run by Logan Plant - son of Robert Plant ViolentPanda FYI
Heineken takes minority stake in London's Beavertown Brewery
the Standard also has a snippet too trivial to put on their website, but I've sanned it 'cause seems there is some controversy about the whole deaL.
Friday 22.6.18