Bristol's Mass Transit ambitions are going underground!

[teccuk]

Bristol City Council released this map:


More info here: Mass transit and public transport plans for Bristol - bristol.gov.uk

There's pretty much no reason (apart from money) that this couldn't happen. Several cities in France, Switzerland and across Europe have 'underground' systems and modern tunneling techniques mean even Bristol's weird geology won't do much to stop it. The real game changer are the rubber tyred 'VAL' type systems. These are driverless, very short and very frequent. They are more like the airport shuttle things (Gatwick for e.g.) than the London Underground. The short trains running at 3min intervals mean short platforms and cheap stations (~50% of system costs). Costs come out at about £60m p/km which is a lot... but trams cost about the same amount these days just because of the all the crap they put under the road surface, and no-one wants a tram up the railway path.

Bring it on.

 

[xenon]

Nice idea but. OK I'll be the one to make the obvious point The disruption and delays just putting a few fancy bus stops in, weird guide lines, not even electric bus infrastructure caused. The idea of digging up the city for a metro system. It'd probably take 10 years of traffic jams, road closures and obviously go way over budget and under spec. It's not gonna happen.


Jesus i feel like one of those dolts in the Evening Post now but someone had to...

 

[teuchter]

Can we call it public transport rather than mass transit please?

 

[Supine]

But hilly for an underground isn't it?

 

[Crispy]

There's no money for it. The very flimsy scope document says it'll have to be half privately financed. How many Bristol property developers have got £2b burning a hole in their pockets?

But hilly for an underground isn't it?

The routes would follow major transport arteries, which tend to follow ancient roads which tend to follow valleys. Not a big deal.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Short version:

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

File alongside:
Bristol supertram
Ultra light rail
BRT
Bristol Arena
Building 800 new affordable homes
etc

 

[Crispy]

It's just Martin flexing before the mayoral election.

 

[Riklet]

Totally fucking stupid idea in a city that cant even repair a roundabout in 6 months. And where public transport and biking infrastructure absolutely blow.

Bristol council....

 

[Sasaferrato]

Nice idea but. OK I'll be the one to make the obvious point The disruption and delays just putting a few fancy bus stops in, weird guide lines, not even electric bus infrastructure caused. The idea of digging up the city for a metro system. It'd probably take 10 years of traffic jams, road closures and obviously go way over budget and under spec. It's not gonna happen.


Jesus i feel like one of those dolts in the Evening Post now but someone had to...

Anyone thinking of this should remember Edinburgh. Years of disruption.

 

[DaveCinzano]

It's just Martin flexing before the mayoral election.

I didn't know he was standing too!

 

[Crispy]

I said marVin. Definitely.

 

[Crispy]

Anyone thinking of this should remember Edinburgh. Years of disruption.

As was building the Newcastle Metro. And the London Underground? Whole streets dug up!
Nobody would say it wasn't worth it now.

 

[Sasaferrato]

As was building the Newcastle Metro. And the London Underground? Whole streets dug up!
Nobody would say it wasn't worth it now.

The problem in Edinburgh was that there scores of undocumented street crossing by gas, water, comms, sewage etc.

Curiously, the last time Princes Street was disrupted like that was to remove the tram lines.

 

[muscovyduck]

Bristol supertram

 

[DaveCinzano]

A light rail project based on the Sheffield network which was mooted in the late 90s/early 00s, complete with ‘artist's impression’ front page newspaper coverage, London Underground-style route maps, grand promises of economic revival and wondrously short journey times etc.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I said marVin. Definitely.

Ah, the Paranoid Evangeloid

 

[Riklet]

I wonder what the Bristolian makes of this shameless PR stunt and attempt to shift millions of public money to the wrong people.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Have a look-see - like buses, and pie-in-the-sky capital schemes that Are Never Going To Happen, they tend to turn up in bunches, so I'm sure they'll be something soon...

The BRISTOLIAN | “Smiter of the High and Mighty”

thebristolian.net

 

[muscovyduck]

A light rail project based on the Sheffield network which was mooted in the late 90s/early 00s, complete with ‘artist's impression’ front page newspaper coverage, London Underground-style route maps, grand promises of economic revival and wondrously short journey times etc.

That's disappointing, both that you didn't get it but also because I was imagining just one tram with like, special powers or something

 

[DaveCinzano]

That's disappointing, both that you didn't get it but also because I was imagining just one tram with like, special powers or something

In Bristol, newly promised transport systems usually have the superpower of invisibility

 

[Riklet]

You feel lucky and special if you manage to get the once every 35-50 minute 40 year old train a few stops without it being more than 5 minutes late. Extra bonus is when you manage not to pay. Extra unlucky is when it disappears completely and never even comes.

It's almost like there's an idea here involving the words... network. Regular. Free. Hrmmm!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Can we call it public transport rather than mass transit please?

many years ago, there used to be a couple of special bus routes in Slough on Sunday mornings to / from the Church of Our Lady of Peace in Burnham.

would that have qualified as both?

Curiously, the last time Princes Street was disrupted like that was to remove the tram lines.

I seem to remember that one phase of constructing the (new) tramway in Nottingham was delayed because they unexpectedly hit (old) tram rails when they started digging

 

[Sasaferrato]

You feel lucky and special if you manage to get the once every 35-50 minute 40 year old train a few stops without it being more than 5 minutes late. Extra bonus is when you manage not to pay. Extra unlucky is when it disappears completely and never even comes.

It's almost like there's an idea here involving the words... network. Regular. Free. Hrmmm!

Why not have a hypothecated 0.5% on income tax to help pay for public transport? That would be circa £3Bn.

 

[teccuk]

Nice idea but. OK I'll be the one to make the obvious point The disruption and delays just putting a few fancy bus stops in, weird guide lines, not even electric bus infrastructure caused. The idea of digging up the city for a metro system. It'd probably take 10 years of traffic jams, road closures and obviously go way over budget and under spec. It's not gonna happen.

Jesus i feel like one of those dolts in the Evening Post now but someone had to...

Well that's the big advantage of a metro over LRT or Rapid Bus. You sink the tunnel heads somewhere and just drill through. Stations, yes, but the footprint of these euro-style rubber tyred systemsis tiny. You could build them on petrol stations and car parks.

But hilly for an underground isn't it?

Nah it's fine. These new rubber systems can take all sorts of inclines and bends.

The problem in Edinburgh was that there scores of undocumented street crossing by gas, water, comms, sewage etc.

Curiously, the last time Princes Street was disrupted like that was to remove the tram lines.

Yeah. Edinburgh is probably the best case study in why LRT isn't all that great unless you have an old railway line to build it on.

Underground won't be cheap, but as pointed out in the B24 artcile, Bristol can get an undrground network hyst forwhat its cost in Crossrail overspend!

 

[TriggaFingaDubs]

The key thing is about this project is the nature of British planning to be honest. It's took over ten years for them to not even lay 3 miles of track between Pill and Portishead. I don't see the 'Bristol underground' happening, as much as I would like to.

 

[teccuk]

Marvin again re-iterating his support for a metro here: Letter to Voters by Marvin Rees: Improving transport, getting our underground

 

[teccuk]

The key thing is about this project is the nature of British planning to be honest. It's took over ten years for them to not even lay 3 miles of track between Pill and Portishead. I don't see the 'Bristol underground' happening, as much as I would like to.

Yes. But that nicely demonstrates the limitations of heavy rail. It interacts with existing infrastructure and services; signaling; level crossings and all that. Rolling stock requirements; route learning; surface land acquisitions and the plan was do it cheaply. Portishead re-opening is an utter disgrace.

It may never happen... of course... but worth a shot.