Breaking Bad (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[mrs quoad]

Fucking badger and the skinny lad. On step 5 and "catching up" on step 2? Total fucking schoolboy error. Step 5'd usually only take a day. Perhaps two. Of very intensive involvement with a sponsor. It's a fucking world away from step 2, which is basically pre-abstinence. (5 is following 4, which is the onset of the legendarily gruesome work / self-examination. Abstinence an absolute prerequisite).

Geez.

 

[Fez909]

Oh, and no way is Ted a likeable character! He's a scumbag tax dodging boss who fucks over his entire company, then receives a lifeline in the drug money from Skyler...and then blows it on a Merc. He's got no personality and reminds me of one of those 80s yuppie stereotypes in films like Lost Highway or National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

 

[DexterTCN]

Likeable characters are Marie, Mike and Jessie, for me.

I used to like Walt and Gus, but they've both done enough to change my mind.

Saul is a great character, and I fucking love him, but he isn't a likeable character. He's a sleaze of the highest order and would fuck you over in second, unless he thought there was more money in not doing so. Cannot be trusted, although you'd end up relying on him. Worst possible combination!

If you separate BB characters into likeable/non-likeable it's going to lead to difficulties.

 

[DexterTCN]

Fucking badger and the skinny lad. On step 5 and "catching up" on step 2? Total fucking schoolboy error. Step 5'd usually only take a day. Perhaps two. Of very intensive involvement with a sponsor. It's a fucking world away from step 2, which is basically pre-abstinence. (5 is following 4, which is the onset of the legendarily gruesome work / self-examination. Abstinence an absolute prerequisite).

Geez.

Where are you now, mrs q?

 

[mrs quoad]

Where are you now, mrs q?

Erm. S3e9?

Had my last night shift for some time last night, and've continued to watch it in the gym!

Btw, who was it that didn't like Ted? What's wrong with Ted?

 

[belboid]

Ted is a scumbag. Mike is a scumbag who we only like in context. Marie is a self-obsessed republican mom. Only Jesse is actually a decent, vaguely considerate, human being.

They're all fucking great characters.

 

[DexterTCN]

Erm. S3e9?

Had my last night shift for some time last night, and've continued to watch it in the gym!

Btw, who was it that didn't like Ted? What's wrong with Ted?

The thing about Ted is he's a fucking idiot. He's ruined his business, when Skyler helps keep him out of jail (and the rest) he fucks her over.

 

[Fez909]

If you separate BB characters into likeable/non-likeable it's going to lead to difficulties.

Of course, but while Marie, Mike and Jessie did things I wouldn't condone (although Marie is the 'purest' here), the others in my post all did things I couldn't even justify.

Mike murdered, but the murders were gang-related..."the game" in Wire parlance.
Marie thieved and I don't have any problem with that.
Jessie made drugs, which I don't have a problem with, and killed people. I do have a problem with him killing people but they were all justifiable in some way (mostly self-preservation). I'm not saying they were right, nor Mike's body count, but they at least made some sort of sense.

Walt's letting Jessie's girlfriend die was unforgivable to me. She was a true innocent in this show; one of the few.
Gus was prepared to let the cartel kill Hank to protect his business interests. That's too frivolous to me. Life is worth way more than money. And when Jessie and Mike killled, it was generally to protect their own lives, or freedom, not their profits.

Ted I explained above.

Yeah, they're mostly all flawed, but I think those reasons I gave should stand up to scrutiny.

 

[DexterTCN]

... Marie is a self-obsessed republican mom. Only Jesse is actually a decent, vaguely considerate, human being....

Marie is cool in a mental way, Walt Jnr is decent too.

 

[belboid]

Marie is cool in a mental way, Walt Jnr is decent too.

that's why she is a great character. you wouldn't want to hang out with her much tho, would you?

Walt Jr's just got boring now

 

[DexterTCN]

that's why she is a great character. you wouldn't want to hang out with her much tho, would you?...

I don't mind..I quite like purple.

 

[DexterTCN]

...Walt's letting Jessie's girlfriend die was unforgivable to me. She was a true innocent in this show; one of the few....

That would be the lapsed addict who got Jesse into heroin and blackmailed Walt, threatening to tell the police?

 

[Fez909]

Marie is cool in a mental way, Walt Jnr is decent too.

Yeah, Marie, aside from her stealing, is a model citizen. Walt Jr is one. Hank is, too. And Gomez. In fact, all the people Walt knew before his cancer, bar Jessie, were law abiding people (although some were unpleasant like the eyebrow-toting car wash owner).

Since he joined the meth trade, the people he's met have all been flawed, and have in some ways corrupted those 'good' people he knew before this.

 

[Fez909]

That would be the lapsed addict who got Jesse into heroin and blackmailed Walt, threatening to tell the police?

A lapsed addict is no less innocent than anyone else. It's a disease, not an evil.

I can't remember the bit where she tried to blackmail Walt. What was it for/about?

 

[DexterTCN]

Yeah, Marie, aside from her stealing, is a model citizen. Walt Jr is one....

That would be Walt Jr that used his parents distress to get them to buy him a sports car?

 

[belboid]

That would be the lapsed addict who got Jesse into heroin and blackmailed Walt, threatening to tell the police?

No one is innocent.

 

[DexterTCN]

No one is innocent.

On a scale of one to ten..where would we normally put heroin and blackmail?

/just having fun

 

[Fez909]

That would be Walt Jr that used his parents distress to get them to buy him a sports car?

Come on! That's not even on the same scale as murder, blackmail and the rest that goes on. you're clutching at straws here. A teenager engaging in a bit of emotional manipulation vs cold blooded murder, tax evasion, fraud, drug dealing, etc etc?

 

[Fez909]

Jessie is a big boy. He took heroin of his own accord. The girl is not to blame.

 

[Fez909]

OK, Jane tried to blackmail Walt because Walt refuses to give Jesse the money he is owed for the drug deal. Why is this a bad thing? Scumbag boss withholds payment for labour, worker's representative threatens boss with legal action, boss backs down and pays worker.

Seems like a good bit of wildcat action to me

 

[belboid]

Come on! That's not even on the same scale as murder, blackmail and the rest that goes on. you're clutching at straws here. A teenager engaging in a bit of emotional manipulation vs cold blooded murder, tax evasion, fraud, drug dealing, etc etc?

he's a teenager - he has to start somewhere!

He's way smarter than Anthony Soprano was.

 

[DexterTCN]

Jessie is a big boy. He took heroin of his own accord. The girl is not to blame.

She convinced him, she coached him. She was taking control. Jesse didn't want to blackmail Walt, he knew Walt had his best interests at heart (I'm not giving it to you while you're off your fucking face). Jane wanted nothing to do with Jesse till she realised he was actually a big name player. She saw Walt was the only threat. Walt saw her as a threat, as she was...pretty much only one ending in that formula.

 

[Fez909]

he's a teenager - he has to start somewhere!

He's way smarter than Anthony Soprano was.

Anthony Soprano was infuriatingly lame.
Actually, I felt for the guy, as he was obviously born into the wrong family. I felt a bit like that in my family (no they're not gangsters...just very different to me!)

Walt Jr wasn't daft, though, no.

 

[zenie]

A lapsed addict is no less innocent than anyone else. It's a disease, not an evil.

I can't remember the bit where she tried to blackmail Walt. What was it for/about?

Do you not remember her grabbing the phone and yelling down it? Walt knew she woe be trouble, fucking harsh to watch tough.

Jesse's week long parties where is house got totally fucked up were epic. As was the look on is Mum and Dad's face when he beat the down on price and revealed himself as the buyer of the house!

I thought Walt jr was a FANTASTIC character!!

Pretty sure I could watch the whole lot again one day

 

[belboid]

Anthony Soprano was infuriatingly lame.
Actually, I felt for the guy, as he was obviously born into the wrong family. I felt a bit like that in my family (no they're not gangsters...just very different to me!)

Walt Jr wasn't daft, though, no.

Again, this is all why he was a brilliant character. And by the end, he had got it - he was never going to be the muscle, but [it appeared that] he could deal it out and take it too.

 

[Fez909]

Do you not remember her grabbing the phone and yelling down it? Walt knew she woe be trouble, fucking harsh to watch tough.

Jesse's week long parties where is house got totally fucked up were epic. As was the look on is Mum and Dad's face when he beat the down on price and revealed himself as the buyer of the house!

Pretty sure I could watch the whole lot again one day

She convinced him, she coached him. She was taking control. Jesse didn't want to blackmail Walt, he knew Walt had his best interests at heart (I'm not giving it to you while you're off your fucking face). Jane wanted nothing to do with Jesse till she realised he was actually a big name player. She saw Walt was the only threat. Walt saw her as a threat, as she was...pretty much only one ending in that formula.

I think I might need to watch it again because I clearly don't remember it as well as everyone else.

I've seen it twice though, too

In my memory, though, she was definitely not a baddie. Far from it.

I'm not sure I can still make a decent case after admitting my memory is hazy, but here goes anyway: compared to the heinous crimes that are committed in this show, including those which can in some way be justified, am I really to accept that Jane was a bad person, someone to dislike? To me, she was a flawed, but ultimately normal human being, who made one too many bad decisions and paid the ultimate price for it.

 

[Fez909]

Again, this is all why he was a brilliant character. And by the end, he had got it - he was never going to be the muscle, but [it appeared that] he could deal it out and take it too.

Yeah, he was great. Most of the characters were great, and believable. That's what made it so good. It wasn't as cliched as normal gangster shit, and so you had annoying characters like Anthony who you just wish would do the right thing...but there is no right thing. Just what their parents expect of them (usually the wrong thing by any normal standards) and their normal persona. As if they were a real family.

Even Pauli, who seems like such a caricature that he couldn't possibly exist; I know people who exhibit similar personality traits, even if they're not cold-blooded killers.

It's rated so highly for a reason! I prefer the Wire overall, but only because of the plot. The characters in the Sopranos, and even Breaking Bad, are much more believable to me.

 

[DexterTCN]

I think I might need to watch it again because I clearly don't remember it as well as everyone else.

I've seen it twice though, too

In my memory, though, she was definitely not a baddie. Far from it...

You're not wrong though. When we meet her she is smart, sees right through Jesse's bullshit, sexy and has her shit together. Her dad's left her in charge of the rental and as we see, her dad doesn't stand for bullshit either. She's quite awesome.

It's later on she's controlling, blackmailing and dangerous. There's no doubt she would fuck Walt over, none at all...later.

 

[zenie]

I think I might need to watch it again because I clearly don't remember it as well as everyone else.

I've seen it twice though, too

In my memory, though, she was definitely not a baddie. Far from it.

I'm not sure I can still make a decent case after admitting my memory is hazy, but here goes anyway: compared to the heinous crimes that are committed in this show, including those which can in some way be justified, am I really to accept that Jane was a bad person, someone to dislike? To me, she was a flawed, but ultimately normal human being, who made one too many bad decisions and paid the ultimate price for it.

Noooo....I think her heroin addiction was the root of it tbh. She would have fucked Walt over and probably Jesse too eventually.

What about when Jesse wakes up in the methheads house and they break into that ATM? wonder what happened to the poor kid?

 

[Fez909]

You're not wrong though. When we meet her she is smart, sees right through Jesse's bullshit, sexy and has her shit together. Her dad's left her in charge of the rental and as we see, her dad doesn't stand for bullshit either. She's quite awesome.

It's later on she's controlling, blackmailing and dangerous. There's no doubt she would fuck Walt over, none at all...later.

See, this I don't necessarily disagree with.

But does fucking over Walt make her a baddie, or someone to dislike? No! We knew Walt is a cunt (although it wasn't obvious then). If someone fucks over a cunt, that does not make them a bad person in any way. I'd argue the opposite.

She's a good person, IMO, and that's why her death changed mine, and others', opinions of Walt so much.