Brady's, Brixton (Railway Hotel): history, chat and plans
- Thread starter citydreams
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
I've just posted up a guide to the various planning classifications:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ndy-guide-to-planning-classifications.303836/
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ndy-guide-to-planning-classifications.303836/
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'm confused - what application are we writing to him about? The one for the pub bit or are we saying the separate application for the flats should be refused on the basis that it would make a pub unviable? Is that the one that's about to be decided? what's the deadline?
The current planning application is both to build 7 flats above the pub and to convert the pub from its current A4 (pub/bar) use to A1 (shop).
The owner wants to guarantee that the site cannot be used as a pub so that it will not affect the value of the flats above.
If the plans to build the 7 flats above was abandoned and the pub was made available to an operator who wishes to run it as it is - as a pub - it would attract plenty of serious interest. Unfortunately this has never been done because converting the pub into flats will make more profit for the current owner.
The owner wants to guarantee that the site cannot be used as a pub so that it will not affect the value of the flats above.
If the plans to build the 7 flats above was abandoned and the pub was made available to an operator who wishes to run it as it is - as a pub - it would attract plenty of serious interest. Unfortunately this has never been done because converting the pub into flats will make more profit for the current owner.
current planning application:
11/04500/FUL | The change of use of the existing building (Use Class A4) into a ground floor and basement commercial unit (Use Class A1) and seven self contained flats (Use Class C3) on the upper floors alongside the erection of a part -two, part-single storey rear extension; creation of waste and cycle storage; replacement and amendments to fenestration; alteration to the external elevational treatment and the formation of new entrances. | Railway Tavern Public House 20 Atlantic Road London SW9 8JA
link here: http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...iveTab=externalDocuments&keyVal=LWI3DJBOHV000
11/04500/FUL | The change of use of the existing building (Use Class A4) into a ground floor and basement commercial unit (Use Class A1) and seven self contained flats (Use Class C3) on the upper floors alongside the erection of a part -two, part-single storey rear extension; creation of waste and cycle storage; replacement and amendments to fenestration; alteration to the external elevational treatment and the formation of new entrances. | Railway Tavern Public House 20 Atlantic Road London SW9 8JA
link here: http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...iveTab=externalDocuments&keyVal=LWI3DJBOHV000
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Email sent.
I've already commented on other applications related to Bradys. In fact, one of the applications [ 12/03895/FUL for external alterations to shopfronts and installation of ventilation in connection with the subdivision of ground floor of existing building for use as part cafe (A3) and part public house (A4) ] was granted permission the other day.
It's just sad that the council washed their hands of Bradys by selling it for no profit, having owned it and paid money securing it for years. Crazy.
I've already commented on other applications related to Bradys. In fact, one of the applications [ 12/03895/FUL for external alterations to shopfronts and installation of ventilation in connection with the subdivision of ground floor of existing building for use as part cafe (A3) and part public house (A4) ] was granted permission the other day.
It's just sad that the council washed their hands of Bradys by selling it for no profit, having owned it and paid money securing it for years. Crazy.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
It would be really helpful if you could provide details of some of the offers made to rent the space - to planning, if not publicly. Otherwise applicant will be able to claim it is not economically viable and other. That is the strongest route. Without that the 'viability report' cannot easily be challenged.
I have emailed planning with details of an offer of rent at or above the asking price of £90,000. The agent - www.goodsirgraham.co.uk - are marketing the pub as only A1/A2/A3 (shop or cafe or restaurant) not pub/bar. They have told me that they will not consider offers from operators who wish to run a pub/bar (A4). I was also told that they had already had offers in excess of the £90,000 rent from other pub operators who had also been turned down.
CAMRA SW (Campagin for Real Ale) email -
'Planning law as it currently stands offers insufficient protection to such pubs. CAMRA would prefer planning policies to require that a pub be marketed as a pub for a set period before planning permission for any alternative use is considered.'
Today is the last day to email the planning officer before Christmas shut down: So far:
Brixton Hatter, Editor, Bosie, TruXta, Publican, and CAMRA
that makes just 6...any more?
The planning officer is Mr Richard McFerran RMcFerran@Lambeth.gov.uk Tel: 020 7926 1180
'Planning law as it currently stands offers insufficient protection to such pubs. CAMRA would prefer planning policies to require that a pub be marketed as a pub for a set period before planning permission for any alternative use is considered.'
Today is the last day to email the planning officer before Christmas shut down: So far:
Brixton Hatter, Editor, Bosie, TruXta, Publican, and CAMRA
that makes just 6...any more?
The planning officer is Mr Richard McFerran RMcFerran@Lambeth.gov.uk Tel: 020 7926 1180
editor
hiraethified
*Tweeted and Facebooked to the nth degree.
footballerslegs
Well-Known Member
Today is the last day to email the planning officer before Christmas shut down: So far:
Brixton Hatter, Editor, Bosie, TruXta, Publican, and CAMRA
that makes just 6...any more?
The planning officer is Mr Richard McFerran RMcFerran@Lambeth.gov.uk Tel: 020 7926 1180
[/quote]
Sent email yesterday.
Brixton Hatter, Editor, Bosie, TruXta, Publican, and CAMRA
that makes just 6...any more?
The planning officer is Mr Richard McFerran RMcFerran@Lambeth.gov.uk Tel: 020 7926 1180
[/quote]
Sent email yesterday.
timothysutton1
Brixton resident.
Email sent.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Done
The Lambeth Unitary Development Plan:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...icy/UDP2007PoliciesSavedBeyond5August2010.htm
4.12.15. (page 85) 'Where public houses are to be retained as part of a wider development, both the building and internal features will be retained by condition or planning obligation. Marketing exercises should also account for the cost of replacement of public house features deliberately removed with the intention of frustrating the policy. Regard will be had to the CAMRA public house viability test.'
www.camra.org.uk/viabilitytest : The pub should be advertised for sale as a pub before change of use is given:
page 8: 'Where and how often has the pub been advertised for sale? Has it been advertised for at least 12 months? In particular, has the sale been placed with specialist licensed trade and/or local agents?
Has the pub been offered for sale as a going concern?
Has the pub been offered at a realistic competitive price? (Information to enable this to be analysed can be obtained from The Publican and Morning Advertiser newspapers and from Fleurets, specialist Chartered Surveyors).'
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...icy/UDP2007PoliciesSavedBeyond5August2010.htm
4.12.15. (page 85) 'Where public houses are to be retained as part of a wider development, both the building and internal features will be retained by condition or planning obligation. Marketing exercises should also account for the cost of replacement of public house features deliberately removed with the intention of frustrating the policy. Regard will be had to the CAMRA public house viability test.'
www.camra.org.uk/viabilitytest : The pub should be advertised for sale as a pub before change of use is given:
page 8: 'Where and how often has the pub been advertised for sale? Has it been advertised for at least 12 months? In particular, has the sale been placed with specialist licensed trade and/or local agents?
Has the pub been offered for sale as a going concern?
Has the pub been offered at a realistic competitive price? (Information to enable this to be analysed can be obtained from The Publican and Morning Advertiser newspapers and from Fleurets, specialist Chartered Surveyors).'
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I notice the Council estate agents Hamptons say the Council is looking for proposals for community use and A3.
The original Brixton Masterplan ( agreed by Cabinet but not statutory planning guidelines) says:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Put in comments:
This application goes against the Brixton Masterplan.
See page 158 http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7C3C5404-5E90-42CF-9B60-28711A9C941B/0/ySec6.pdf
I quote from Brixton Masterplan:
"Brady’s community facility Define a delivery methodology for Brady’s building to include community/cultural/leisure use and remodelled rear addition to provide active frontage and overlook to new public space."
Also the Lambert Smith Hampton sales brochure for the building stated that the Council was seeking proposals that would lead to the regeneration of Bradys and community / A3 use.
This application does not satisfy either.
This application should be put on hold until the Brixton SPD is finished. Unless a new application is put in that follows the Brixton Masterplan and the what the Council said they were seeking in a proposal in the LSH brochure.
This application goes against the Brixton Masterplan.
See page 158 http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7C3C5404-5E90-42CF-9B60-28711A9C941B/0/ySec6.pdf
I quote from Brixton Masterplan:
"Brady’s community facility Define a delivery methodology for Brady’s building to include community/cultural/leisure use and remodelled rear addition to provide active frontage and overlook to new public space."
Also the Lambert Smith Hampton sales brochure for the building stated that the Council was seeking proposals that would lead to the regeneration of Bradys and community / A3 use.
This application does not satisfy either.
This application should be put on hold until the Brixton SPD is finished. Unless a new application is put in that follows the Brixton Masterplan and the what the Council said they were seeking in a proposal in the LSH brochure.
Unfortunately because of 'devolved powers' the planning department do not have to refer this to a committee for final approval but can grant permission themselves. They have decided to approve the development of the 7 flats and the change of use of the pub to a shop.
Although the planning department agree that they have not followed their policy - that pubs should be protected and should be marketed as a pub before redevelopment is given - they say there is an 'element of flexibility' within their policy.
They did not feel that the loss of the pub would be controversial as they had received no objections... Until shortly before Christmas, by which time they say it is too late.
CAMRA are attempting to persuade the planners to refer the application to a planning committee to avoid reputational damage now that people are aware that the application will result in the loss of Bradys as a pub, and because they haven't followed policy.
Any more emails to the planners would help to apply pressure. They should apply their own policy to preserve the pub as a pub if it can be a viable business. The planners used the fact that the pub has been closed for so long as evidence that it was not viable ( but it was closed because of the compulsory purchase - it has never been made available as a pub).
Although the planning department agree that they have not followed their policy - that pubs should be protected and should be marketed as a pub before redevelopment is given - they say there is an 'element of flexibility' within their policy.
They did not feel that the loss of the pub would be controversial as they had received no objections... Until shortly before Christmas, by which time they say it is too late.
CAMRA are attempting to persuade the planners to refer the application to a planning committee to avoid reputational damage now that people are aware that the application will result in the loss of Bradys as a pub, and because they haven't followed policy.
Any more emails to the planners would help to apply pressure. They should apply their own policy to preserve the pub as a pub if it can be a viable business. The planners used the fact that the pub has been closed for so long as evidence that it was not viable ( but it was closed because of the compulsory purchase - it has never been made available as a pub).
editor
hiraethified
Could you perhaps suggest a template and any other addresses that people could email?
I'm pretty sure I could help generate a load of publicity about this, but the course of suggested action has to be made crystal clear...
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I have just looked up the application and it says "Status- pending decision" I am now "tracking" it. I did online comments- if it had been decided then I would not have been able to comment.
I think most effective would be a 'Save Bradys' campaign based on the councils declared policy of protecting pubs from redevelopment, unless they are not viable as a pub:
The Lambeth Unitary Development Plan:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...icy/UDP2007PoliciesSavedBeyond5August2010.htm
4.12.15. (page 85) 'Where public houses are to be retained as part of a wider development, both the building and internal features will be retained by condition or planning obligation. Marketing exercises should also account for the cost of replacement of public house features deliberately removed with the intention of frustrating the policy. Regard will be had to the CAMRA public house viability test.'
www.camra.org.uk/viabilitytest : The pub should be advertised for sale as a pub before change of use is given:
page 8: 'Where and how often has the pub been advertised for sale? Has it been advertised for at least 12 months? In particular, has the sale been placed with specialist licensed trade and/or local agents?
Has the pub been offered for sale as a going concern?
Has the pub been offered at a realistic competitive price? (Information to enable this to be analysed can be obtained from The Publican and Morning Advertiser newspapers and from Fleurets, specialist Chartered Surveyors).'
Basically the council compulsorily purchased an iconic pub and music venue, allowed it to fall into disrepair, then sold it for redevelopment as flats. If they decided they did not require it they should have just returned it to the market as a pub (preferably in the condition in which they had found it).
The assumption that because it has been empty for so long then it is not viable as a pub and must be redeveloped as flats it not correct. This could once again be an iconic Brixton venue. They should apply CAMRAs viability test, as set out in their Unitary Development Plan. The site is much better suited to being a pub than flats (it has a railway through the middle).
The Lambeth Unitary Development Plan:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...icy/UDP2007PoliciesSavedBeyond5August2010.htm
4.12.15. (page 85) 'Where public houses are to be retained as part of a wider development, both the building and internal features will be retained by condition or planning obligation. Marketing exercises should also account for the cost of replacement of public house features deliberately removed with the intention of frustrating the policy. Regard will be had to the CAMRA public house viability test.'
www.camra.org.uk/viabilitytest : The pub should be advertised for sale as a pub before change of use is given:
page 8: 'Where and how often has the pub been advertised for sale? Has it been advertised for at least 12 months? In particular, has the sale been placed with specialist licensed trade and/or local agents?
Has the pub been offered for sale as a going concern?
Has the pub been offered at a realistic competitive price? (Information to enable this to be analysed can be obtained from The Publican and Morning Advertiser newspapers and from Fleurets, specialist Chartered Surveyors).'
Basically the council compulsorily purchased an iconic pub and music venue, allowed it to fall into disrepair, then sold it for redevelopment as flats. If they decided they did not require it they should have just returned it to the market as a pub (preferably in the condition in which they had found it).
The assumption that because it has been empty for so long then it is not viable as a pub and must be redeveloped as flats it not correct. This could once again be an iconic Brixton venue. They should apply CAMRAs viability test, as set out in their Unitary Development Plan. The site is much better suited to being a pub than flats (it has a railway through the middle).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I think it would be great to get the broader issue out there as well, particularly if this specific case seems to generate interest amongst people. As discussed regularly on here, this pattern seems to apply to the fate of many pubs. There's already quite a body of info on U75, both in your "lost pubs of brixton" feature and amongst forum discussions.
The whole thing seems a massive failure of what planning is supposed to be about - countering market pressures where necessary to protect what's for the general good in the long term. If Lambeth feel that people don't actually care about keeping pubs open, then it should be stated in their planning policy. If it's other motivations that repeatedly create this situation where the planners accept claims of non-viability seemingly without requiring any evidence of a genuine attempt to offer a site to the market, then obviously questions need to be asked.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Would there be any mileage in selecting 3 or 4 recent examples, and making a FOI request to Lambeth asking for details of the tests that they applied to determine that there was no interest in the building continuing as a pub? Asking for a record of their investigations as per the CAMRA "viability test" which is a stated part of their policy?
editor
hiraethified
I think that there would be a lot of local interest in saving the boozer and I'm prepared to put in a fair bit of work to get the message out. Perhaps one idea might be to ask folks here to put together short statements using their knowledge to cover the various issues (planning/social/history etc) and then using that as a campaigning springboard?
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Yes....and the forthcoming consultation on the Lambeth Supplementary Planning Document offers another opportunity for the community to restate its' wishes re: pubs etc.
One of the main threats to pubs in London is that residential property has become so much more valuable than commercial property.
Developers can make a good profit by asset stripping pubs.
They develop the accommodation above and sell it off separately. If they can make something out of the ground floor then this is a bonus, but often the pub is left empty. Developers generally don't want a pub as this will affect the value of the flats. There is also no requirement to get planning permission to convert a pub into a shop. (Over 200 pubs nationally have been converted into supermarkets since 2010 http://www.camra.org.uk/article.php?group_id=8153 ).
A pub with privately owned flats above is very hard to run as the residents can complain about customers arriving and leaving after 10pm or smoking outside; entertainment such as live music becomes almost impossible.
When the accommodation is part of the business, such as staff accommodation, this isn't a problem.
Bradys is a good example of this.
By allowing 7 flats to be built above the pub they give the developer a financial incentive to convert the ground floor pub into something quieter like a shop.
Developers can make a good profit by asset stripping pubs.
They develop the accommodation above and sell it off separately. If they can make something out of the ground floor then this is a bonus, but often the pub is left empty. Developers generally don't want a pub as this will affect the value of the flats. There is also no requirement to get planning permission to convert a pub into a shop. (Over 200 pubs nationally have been converted into supermarkets since 2010 http://www.camra.org.uk/article.php?group_id=8153 ).
A pub with privately owned flats above is very hard to run as the residents can complain about customers arriving and leaving after 10pm or smoking outside; entertainment such as live music becomes almost impossible.
When the accommodation is part of the business, such as staff accommodation, this isn't a problem.
Bradys is a good example of this.
By allowing 7 flats to be built above the pub they give the developer a financial incentive to convert the ground floor pub into something quieter like a shop.
I can cover this in the Lambeth Weekender - we have a distribution of 40,000 in Lambeth. I'm going to plough back through the thread but I'll need people to talk to, so if anyone with particular knowledge of the pub's history or the planning history of the site and/or a Brixton resident with a view on the social value of a pub on that site wants is happy to talk to me then email megan@myweekender.co.uk with a number and a good time to call. Thanks.
TruXta
tired
Thanks! Can't really help, but just wanted to say that this is exactly what is needed. Bad publicity for the council never hurt.
