Bloody Sunday 40th Anniversary..........
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
I reckon internment was the tipping point....
I read elsewhere recently that current paratroopers are being trained in dealing with civilian riots. They have practice buildings that were constructed to look Irish originally but now converted to look Afghanistani. Or perhaps even like Tottenham, I wouldn't be surprised. 
I can't watch more than about 2 minutes of that video. It is a complete disgrace and I can see why it will never be forgotten.
At least the cover-up has been uncovered. But have the-powers-that-be learned anything about not using soldiers against civilians?
I can't watch more than about 2 minutes of that video. It is a complete disgrace and I can see why it will never be forgotten.
At least the cover-up has been uncovered. But have the-powers-that-be learned anything about not using soldiers against civilians?
Yes I know, but I understand there are now some new American methods that have been introduced in the British Army.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Yeah, look at how brilliantly things worked out for them in Vietnam and Iraq.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
tbf they did change there approach its debatable if it made a lot of change they do have senior officers who think seriously about stuff and are encouraged to do phds etc which is not really a british army thing so they may well have insights worth learning.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
intersol32
Well-Known Member
I read elsewhere recently that current paratroopers are being trained in dealing with civilian riots. They have practice buildings that were constructed to look Irish originally but now converted to look Afghanistani. Or perhaps even like Tottenham, I wouldn't be surprised.
I can't watch more than about 2 minutes of that video. It is a complete disgrace and I can see why it will never be forgotten.
At least the cover-up has been uncovered. But have the-powers-that-be learned anything about not using soldiers against civilians?
Admitting to cover ups is welcomed by many, but the unfortunate consequence is that they're usually done 30 years too late. Sometimes many of the people involved have died, and also public interest can wane. You may often wonder that when atrocities occur, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, the State can privately say to itself "no worries, we'll admit to it in a few decades and by then the political impact (or the possibility of being prosecuted) would have diminished".
It's interesting to note that during the Bloody Sunday Inquiry the MOD had to admit to recently destroying several of the British Army rifles involved, despite them being kept in storage since the eventful day.
I don't think the powers that be will ever be prevented from considering soldiers in a civilian/policing role. In fact the role of the military is always two-fold: to react or employ force against an external enemy (overseas) or an internal enemy (at home) should the need arise.
Remember the military were put on alert in a similar manner during the Miners Strike.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Thats sort of what militarys do.
Its also rather easy to admit mistakes were made when the conflict is over kind of difficult to have inquirys when members of the secuirity forces are being killed regularly.
putting troops on the streets wasn't a brilliant idea But there wasn't a viable alternative.
Its also rather easy to admit mistakes were made when the conflict is over kind of difficult to have inquirys when members of the secuirity forces are being killed regularly.
putting troops on the streets wasn't a brilliant idea But there wasn't a viable alternative.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Well no alterntaive apart from HM Gov not continuning to prop up the unionist supremacy through violent force.
Instead it took nearly 30 years of bloodshed for them to come to that conclusion.
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wobbly
not even a unionist supremacy, a supremacy of a small, self interested sectoin of the unionists.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Well the policy had been to let Ni run itself without any supervision from Westminster to such an extent that some mp asking about Ni was chastised.
Hence when it all went wrong nobody who was making the decisions had a clue what the fuck had been going on.
Basic plan are the Irish revolting no oh we'll ignore it.
They are oh fuck send the army in.
Mind you the provisionals didn't exactly cover themselves in glory
Plan a force the Britsh into the sea
Plan b kill enough Brits they will leave
Plan C decide some sort of power sharing idea might work.
Ireland where given the choice between wrong and right everybody seems to think picking the wrong solution at least a dozen times is a good idea
Hence when it all went wrong nobody who was making the decisions had a clue what the fuck had been going on.
Basic plan are the Irish revolting no oh we'll ignore it.
They are oh fuck send the army in.
Mind you the provisionals didn't exactly cover themselves in glory
Plan a force the Britsh into the sea
Plan b kill enough Brits they will leave
Plan C decide some sort of power sharing idea might work.
Ireland where given the choice between wrong and right everybody seems to think picking the wrong solution at least a dozen times is a good idea
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
it strikes me they just replaced one cover up with another . While they finally got round to admitting the massacre victims were innocent they seem to have attempted to put the blame on the Paras OC Wilford and a few of his men for a bit of overzealousness . Thats very difficult to accept as likely in my view . Of all the regiments they could have sent in to deal with mass civil disobedience the paras were most likely to cause major civilian casualties . That had to be the intent of those much higher up . The entire point of paratroops is their all out aggression and readiness to kill anyone and that regiment had already carried out a few lesser known civilain masacres in the months previously . If you wanted a regiment to carry out a massacre they were the ideal choice .
I watched that Bernie McAliskey documentary last night and she spoke of an anti internment rally the week previous in Dungannon . Despite the crowd initially cheerfully engaging in civil disobedience and ignoring dispersal orders within an hour theyd all been hemmed into an empty brickyard , and despite not being shrinking violets theyd been so fearful of the paras demeanour they were subdued and cowed to the point they complied with orders to all get down on their knees with their hands over their heads . They knew on that day theyd have been massacred in that quarry if they hadnt complied . Within 7 days they were .
The mass civil disobedience campaigns , rent and rates strike etc had brought the north to its knees . Neither stormont nor westminster had an ounce of legitmacy in the face of those mass campaigns . After Bloody sunday that campaign was pretty much finished and virtually all resistance channeled into the physical force route , under the stewardship of the provisionals ,with the remainder lining out behind the SDLP.
History seems to be showing us that the leaderships of both of these groups proved to be much more managable than the demands of the mass campaigns . Between the 2 of them they managed to eventually repackage and sell core british objectives as somehow their own all along .
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the british government's been wrong a fuck of a lot more than a dozen times
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wobbly
I'm really yet to find any org who covered themselves in glory tbh. not just the provisionals.
and there does seem to be an element to the idea they they will try the worst solution first, maybee because then anyhting is going to look better.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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wobbly
i've got the impression that there really wasn't any mass support for armed struggle until the prisioner protests?
pira weren't quite the group that the british gvt claimed they were of a few people with no community support, but neither did they have anything that could really be considered a mass power base of supporters, certainly not at the level of support they were able to claim when sinn fein started contesting elections.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
which is no doubt why adams, mcguinness et al were flown to london for talks with the british government in 1972
the prison protests started after ciaran nugent went on the blanket after special category status was withdrawn in 1976. by that time there was a fuck of a lot of water under the bridge, and it's difficult to see how you can sustain the notion that 'there really wasn't any mass support for armed struggle until the prisoner protests'.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Aaah...the United Kingdom city of Culture . Quite an acheivement for Martin McGuiness and all his hard work .
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh there's one going begging after fred goodwin lost hisAaah...the United Kingdom city of Culture . Quite an acheivement for Martin McGuiness and all his hard work .
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wobbly
the ability of pira to make a themselves a thorn in the side of the british isn't the same as having a high level of popular support in the nationalist community though. a lot of the opinion i'm reading seems to be suggesting a negative correlation. with the addition that failures and martyrs gained more popular support than any successful action.
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wobbly
Aaah...the United Kingdom city of Culture . Quite an acheivement for Martin McGuiness and all his hard work .
she looks a lot like she would rather be biting his nose off.
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