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Bikes? Bikes? BIKES!?

Safety issues/concerns should largely be addressed by building proper cycle infrastructure, which is hopefully what most of this money will be spent on.

New office developments are increasingly being required to have showers and secure cycle parking, residential developments should also have secure cycle parking designed in. Some councils will install bike hangars onto a street in place of a car parking space if they are requested by residents, not sure how secure these are but it's certainly not beyond is to make decently secure ones if there is the will for them.

Electric bikes resolve a lot of issues around hills and make longer commutes totally practical.
(Electric) Cargo bikes and trailers make carrying a lot of car size/weight loads practical.

But it all hinges on having a well designed, safe space to cycle in.

If people move en masse from public transport to cars, our towns and cities are going to be gridlocked and pollution will be awful.

Bikes and scooters offer a solution to a lot of these journeys. The amount of money needed to invest in the required infrastructure is tiny compared to what would be needed to upgrade public transport to a new social distancing requirement (10% capacity running is what i think has been suggested, so 10x services required?).

No, it won't solve every journey for every person but when 24% of people don't own a car (39% in London) there's a huge potential for a big jump in car ownership and usage which could be substantially mitigated with the right investment in cycling and walking infrastructure.

Something like a third of journeys under two miles are currently made by car in Birmingham. Loads of short trips, loads of commuter journeys under 5 miles. 90% of those done by public transport previously now done by car or bike? Getting as many of those as possible onto bikes is about to be really important.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Look into getting an electric bike through the cycle to work scheme? I borrowed one before lockdown to get to work before we started working from home, because people coughing on public transport was making me nervous. Admittedly, my ride was only about 4.5 miles, but I'm very unfit and the power assisted ride made it a doddle, even enjoyable. I'm thinking of buying one. I do have a regular bike, but would've been too knackered as I'm too unfit to contemplate a long journey on that, it's got a puncture anyway, but I mainly used it for nipping into town (10 mins) or the shops, etc. I'd go a lot further on an electric one, their range is quite good.
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I know it might not apply, but they aren’t excluded from the bikes for work scheme.

so you might be able to get it tax free
 
Speaking from past experience, when I commuted 14 miles each way. As long as you have a reliable bike, of whatever style suits you the best addition by far is a pair of full length mudguards. The amount of water and muck they deflect not only make your daily commute more enjoyable, it allows you just to have a quick change of clothes at work rather than needing a shower. Though I used to always keep a pack of body wipes stashed at work for any sweaty bits.
Other cyclists will appreciate your mudguards too.
 
Now how the fuck do I get a bike when I'm skint and everyone in London is going to want one soon. It would pay for itself in time, its just finding one big enough and paying for it in the first place.
 
maomao said:
Now how the fuck do I get a bike when I'm skint and everyone in London is going to want one soon. It would pay for itself in time, its just finding one big enough and paying for it in the first place.
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We need a mass program of melting down cars to make bikes. Range rovers have a lot of metal in them and are exclusively driven by surplus cunts so we should start with them.
 
nick said:
Also of benefit to anyone that is behind you in the rain (I'm assuming commute) - although in these days of social distancing, it may not be a bad thing to throw around some spray
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Yeah, this, it's really annoying waiting for a chance to get past someone whilst getting covered in a thin line of spray.
 
ska invita said:
this post is London-centric>>>>:

Distance is an issue for sure - people live increasingly far out in London, as they've been priced out.

I just googlemapped my commute, door to door 2 hours a day by train, zone 4 to zone 1 - but thats only 12.5 miles by bike - I can do that, maybe up to 90 minute max bike ride each way.

But what does that ride include? Several large hills and lots and lots of dangerous roads - the entire length of the old kent road in my case. And lots more beside. And tbh 90% of roads are dangerous in London. And fuck biking in the rain. And turning up knackered and drenched in sweat after that. and riding in the dark. etc etc etc

It might work for a small percent of people not already commuting by bike before this situation - like i said 5% would be very impressive - but this transport issue is a hurdle I cant see any way for the state to jump
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I agree here this isn't for the average punter in London. 12.5 miles in London is a lifetime during rush hour unless you find a good route. It's the old issue of fighting for road space on our victorian highways. That is the issue that plagues the city. There is an amazing quietway route parallel to the Old Kent Road that you should try some day but that's a separate issue. Once you start including central London I think up to 10 miles is doable but not that pleasant. My current commute is a flat 6 miles and makes perfect sense and includes a large section through Burgess Park.
 
BigTom said:
Safety issues/concerns should largely be addressed by building proper cycle infrastructure, which is hopefully what most of this money will be spent on.

New office developments are increasingly being required to have showers and secure cycle parking, residential developments should also have secure cycle parking designed in. Some councils will install bike hangars onto a street in place of a car parking space if they are requested by residents, not sure how secure these are but it's certainly not beyond is to make decently secure ones if there is the will for them.

Electric bikes resolve a lot of issues around hills and make longer commutes totally practical.
(Electric) Cargo bikes and trailers make carrying a lot of car size/weight loads practical.

But it all hinges on having a well designed, safe space to cycle in.

If people move en masse from public transport to cars, our towns and cities are going to be gridlocked and pollution will be awful.

Bikes and scooters offer a solution to a lot of these journeys. The amount of money needed to invest in the required infrastructure is tiny compared to what would be needed to upgrade public transport to a new social distancing requirement (10% capacity running is what i think has been suggested, so 10x services required?).

No, it won't solve every journey for every person but when 24% of people don't own a car (39% in London) there's a huge potential for a big jump in car ownership and usage which could be substantially mitigated with the right investment in cycling and walking infrastructure.

Something like a third of journeys under two miles are currently made by car in Birmingham. Loads of short trips, loads of commuter journeys under 5 miles. 90% of those done by public transport previously now done by car or bike? Getting as many of those as possible onto bikes is about to be really important.
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I support all the above. Because of London being what it is what can be done is severely limited by space, and was recently proven in the case of the west london superhighway, by the willingness of each particular London borough (Chelsea blocked it), however, if it can get as good as possible, great.

But it is not going to replace public transport, it is going to compliment it. And it will take some time to put in new infrastructure. And the effect on overall passenger numbers will be relatively small.

The issue here is a public transport system running at 10% capacity. Once commuters get on a train outside London or in the deep suburbs it will be filled to that 10%. Even being allowed on a train in Zone 5, 4, 3 or 2 seems unlikely to me.

This is a C19 thread, and the point here is, as long there's a C19 threat warranting 10% capacity its a dream that any more than - let me be generous - 20% of London living commuters are going to be able to get to work on public transport. Or so I would expect.

That's a massive issue for a government desperate to Get Britain Working ASAP, and its a massive issue for workers told to get back to work or lose their jobs.
 
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Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
I'd love to be able to cycle to work but it would take some serious changes before I would. It's nearly ten miles and right across central London and I'm not the most confident cyclist tbh. If they genuinely prioritised cyclists then I would but I can't see it.
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ska invita said:
I just googlemapped my commute, door to door 2 hours a day by train, zone 4 to zone 1 - but thats only 12.5 miles by bike - I can do that, maybe up to 90 minute max bike ride each way.

But what does that ride include? Several large hills and lots and lots of dangerous roads - the entire length of the old kent road in my case. And lots more beside. And tbh 90% of roads are dangerous in London. And fuck biking in the rain. And turning up knackered and drenched in sweat after that. and riding in the dark. etc etc etc
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Haven’t read thread yet so this may have been covered but take a look at cycle routes here:

Cycle

Cycle Map
tfl.gov.uk tfl.gov.uk

Still loads of gaps but there’s some good stuff there.
 
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Can people please stop encouraging me to do a bike ride to work
I ride a bike every day for an hour at the moment during lockdown
I am a confident rider - happily going along in the middle of the lane when necessary
I like to ride a bike
I know london roads very well including back streets, i drove a delivery van for years multidropping all over north south east west
Im aware of quiet ways and back routes

I am not commuting to work on a bike and if forced to by an employer i would consider quitting. Its too far, and its not safe to do every day, especially in rush hour and especially after an 8,5 hour shift.


This is a structural issue thread and in relation to London relates to all the millions of commuters who pour into the town every day.
 
maomao said:
Now how the fuck do I get a bike when I'm skint and everyone in London is going to want one soon. It would pay for itself in time, its just finding one big enough and paying for it in the first place.
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I'm hoping there will be a programme of free/subsidised bikes. They did it in Birmingham a while back, you could apply for one if your household income/postcode was eligible. Still see a fair few of them being ridden around (they had quite a distinctive paint job).
 
baldrick said:
I'm hoping there will be a programme of free/subsidised bikes. They did it in Birmingham a while back, you could apply for one if your household income/postcode was eligible. Still see a fair few of them being ridden around (they had quite a distinctive paint job).
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Bet they didn't come in giant sizes. Also manufacturing a large number of bikes (six figures at least to be any use in London) is a major project in itself.
 
maomao said:
Bet they didn't come in giant sizes. Also manufacturing a large number of bikes (six figures at least to be any use in London) is a major project in itself.
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They could offer discounts at bike shops/manufacturers, they wouldn't need to organise several thousand of the same model branded up - that's just the luxury of time. Admittedly the manufacturers still need to make enough bikes, but if people could pick their own that makes supply a bit easier.
 
I found pedestrians to be a more frequent hazard than cars when I used to ride around central London a lot, although the likely ‘harm’ from an incident wouldn’t be as great as with several tonnes of metal. Didn’t think it was that bad generally, lots of quietways and nicely calmed areas like Waltham Forest and De Beauvoir estate. I know other bits can be shitty, the further out you get the more nobheads you seem to encounter (especially going East), worst tended to be those narrow roads with cars parked on both sides and dicks would just drive straight at you without slowing down or giving any acknowledgement, just kind of ‘get out of my way’.

I’ve cycled to work regularly for about a decade, in Leeds it was about 8.5 miles across town, with about 100m climbing, about 30-35 minutes. Barely saw any other cyclists. Two accidents (car turning across me when filtering, pothole). Kept me decently fit. Current commute is about 400 metres, so I’ve lost this benefit. Still mostly ride it (2 mins out, maybe 1 back downhill) although I’ve also appropriated a child’s scooter that was abandoned at work and use that some of the time.
 
maomao said:
Bet they didn't come in giant sizes. Also manufacturing a large number of bikes (six figures at least to be any use in London) is a major project in itself.
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Nope, they are all standard Raleigh sizes, large mens I think is 21"
And yeah it was a big undertaking, Raleigh basically put a factory line in Turkey onto producing the 3,000 bikes for the project. Took a couple of years from awarding the contract to raleigh to having the last ones in people's hands. That said when they repeated the project with another 5,000 bikes it didn't take quite as long, partly because they dropped the GPS trackers (which was a great idea but couldn't be executed in a practical fashion).

Perhaps we can requisition all the abandoned dockless bikes that were around last year or the year before... I don't know what happened to them tbf and if the companies took them back or just abandonded them.
 
ska invita said:
I support all the above. Because of London being what it is what can be done is severely limited by space, and was recently proven in the case of the west london superhighway, by the willingness of each particular London borough (Chelsea blocked it), however, if it can get as good as possible, great.

But it is not going to replace public transport, it is going to compliment it. And it will take some time to put in new infrastructure. And the effect on overall passenger numbers will be relatively small.

The issue here is a public transport system running at 10% capacity. Once commuters get on a train outside London or in the deep suburbs it will be filled to that 10%. Even being allowed on a train in Zone 5, 4, 3 or 2 seems unlikely to me.

This is a C19 thread, and the point here is, as long there's a C19 threat warranting 10% capacity its a dream that any more than - let me be generous - 20% of London living commuters are going to be able to get to work on public transport. Or so I would expect.

That's a massive issue for a government desperate to Get Britain Working ASAP, and its a massive issue for workers told to get back to work or lose their jobs.
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Yeah, we defnitely agree here, it's not a replacement for public transport, but something is going to need to replace that 90% capacity.

Putting in temporary / semi-temporary infrastructure can be done fairly cheaply and very quickly in a lot of circumstances - think about the concrete barriers that were dropped into place over london bridges overnight to guard against terrorist attacks on pavements. So drop down barriers, add temporary lights at junctions like when there's road works and temporary signage as required and boom, you've got the space you need.

Availability of space is very much a case-by-case basis so it's really hard to talk about in general, but there will need to be re-allocation of space from motor vehicles to bicycle/scooter(and possibly moped) lanes. Sometimes that's a genuine issue but ime most of the time it's more that people aren't willing to lose or narrow general traffic lanes, or lose on street parking, let alone do more radical things like making one way systems to free up a general traffic lane to become a segregated cycle lane.

So yeah, absolutely the vast majority of londoners (or anyone in any city) will not be able to use public transport at 10% capacity. If they all start driving, cities are gridlocked and polluted. The higher number we can get cycling/scooting the better, but that needs safe space for cycling or the vast, vast, vast majority of people won't do it regardless of length of journey, availability of showers/lockers, secure cycle parking etc.
 
BigTom said:
Yeah, we defnitely agree here, it's not a replacement for public transport, but something is going to need to replace that 90% capacity.

Putting in temporary / semi-temporary infrastructure can be done fairly cheaply and very quickly in a lot of circumstances - think about the concrete barriers that were dropped into place over london bridges overnight to guard against terrorist attacks on pavements. So drop down barriers, add temporary lights at junctions like when there's road works and temporary signage as required and boom, you've got the space you need.

Availability of space is very much a case-by-case basis so it's really hard to talk about in general, but there will need to be re-allocation of space from motor vehicles to bicycle/scooter(and possibly moped) lanes. Sometimes that's a genuine issue but ime most of the time it's more that people aren't willing to lose or narrow general traffic lanes, or lose on street parking, let alone do more radical things like making one way systems to free up a general traffic lane to become a segregated cycle lane.

So yeah, absolutely the vast majority of londoners (or anyone in any city) will not be able to use public transport at 10% capacity. If they all start driving, cities are gridlocked and polluted. The higher number we can get cycling/scooting the better, but that needs safe space for cycling or the vast, vast, vast majority of people won't do it regardless of length of journey, availability of showers/lockers, secure cycle parking etc.
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agree with that but just to say every concession the tories make , on a green agenda, on any kind of socialising agenda, bring it on and i hope they squirm at every step doing so. Im only expressing personal reservations here as its between friends ;)
 
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Cycling to work for me would involve a long journey by bike with a hilly section, necessitating prolonged exposure to this country's precipitation-heavy climate which also gets pretty dark in winter. Lucky for me my job allows me to work from home. Not exactly fair on those who can't though, is it? "Get back to work, peasants"
 
I think I'd rather get some old banger of a used car tbh

EDIT: On the basis that cycling whether electric or not is not going to suit everyone - just getting cold and wet and staying that way all day because I do not tend to work in offices (and when I do the heating is often switched off and they are uninhabited!) would be injurious to my health and wellbeing, if I turn up wet and cold and have to stay that way all day. Also sometimes have to carry stuff.
 
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NoXion said:
Cycling to work for me would involve a long journey by bike with a hilly section, necessitating prolonged exposure to this country's precipitation-heavy climate which also gets pretty dark in winter. Lucky for me my job allows me to work from home. Not exactly fair on those who can't though, is it? "Get back to work, peasants"
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But the peasants will get fit & healthy! :)
 
Epona said:
I think I'd rather get some old banger of a used car tbh

EDIT: On the basis that cycling whether electric or not is not going to suit everyone - just getting cold and wet and staying that way all day because I do not tend to work in offices (and when I do the heating is often switched off and they are uninhabited!) would be injurious to my health and wellbeing, if I turn up wet and cold and have to stay that way all day. Also sometimes have to carry stuff.
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It's not for everyone that's for sure. It's cheaper than an old banger in the long run though and wet weather is negated with waterproofs so I'm never that wet all day. I work in the community and the office too!

It wasn't a suggestion for those who can't, or don't want to cycle for various reasons. Rather those who are ambivalent about it and see it purely as a means of transport.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
It's amazing how far some people manage. There's a guy in my club who does nearly 25 miles each way (guess that's about the same as your mate thinking about it), 5 days a week, in all weathers. Seriously impressive.
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I used to work with a fella who was a close to retiring age. He used to run over 20 miles to work and home again each day. The fucking idiot.
 
BristolEcho said:
It's not for everyone that's for sure. It's cheaper than an old banger in the long run though and wet weather is negated with waterproofs so I'm never that wet all day. I work in the community and the office too!

It wasn't a suggestion for those who can't, or don't want to cycle for various reasons. Rather those who are ambivalent about it and see it purely as a means of transport.
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Yeah, I'd normally be hesitant actually saying 'yeah you really should cycle'. With basic knowledge it genuinely isn't as dangerous as some assume. But if someone can't change at work, that's grim. And clearly some mobility issues just make it impossible. Also total baptism of fire if you haven't cycled much before, that would be off-putting. I do think it would have considerable rewards for a large number of people though - fitness does improve very quickly. And, in the context of this thread, I'd probably be more inclined to recommend it at the moment... The potential increase in vehicle traffic is going to make for a very shitty commute experience if driving, and public transport is clearly not a great option now.
 
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