TruXta
tired
Is he really or are you on a wind-up?
Barclays Bank Brixton closed down by UK Uncut protesters
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Is he really or are you on a wind-up?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He is.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Ordinary people who apologise for the greed of the wealthy are ignorant masochists.
wurlycurly
diss member
(((((((((((((UK Uncut)))))))))))))
TruXta
tired
Niiice.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Did I say I agreed with all the cuts, or offshore bank accounts? No.
The point I'm trying to make which you all seem to be spectacularly missing is that inconveniencing bank customers, who may well have been going to pay their bills today and are now going to get hit with late payment charges because they couldn't get in to the branch, doesn't really win many people to "your cause".
Sure, it gets a bit of media time out of it, but will that change things? Of course not.
Target the bosses, sure, but the workers in the branches are not responsible for any of this.
The point I'm trying to make which you all seem to be spectacularly missing is that inconveniencing bank customers, who may well have been going to pay their bills today and are now going to get hit with late payment charges because they couldn't get in to the branch, doesn't really win many people to "your cause".
Sure, it gets a bit of media time out of it, but will that change things? Of course not.
Target the bosses, sure, but the workers in the branches are not responsible for any of this.
TruXta
tired
You really don't get it do you? This isn't targeting the workers, it's targeting the corporation, and by extension the bosses.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Transactions at branches on a Saturday are dated for the following Monday. So no-one who would not have incurred a charge will incur one because of not been able to pay a bill on a Saturday.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Nobody is blaming the workers of individual bank branches. They get shafted just as much as everybody else. As do the bank customers.
Local bank branches are the first point of contact for most people to the banking system. Why shouldn't protests start there? It is not just about getting 'media time', it is about people coming together to learn from each other how to stand up against the crimes of the those at the top.
What do you suggest to 'target the bosses'?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Read "In the City" Private Eye issue 1280 for how the USA Federal Reserve Bank helped Barclays. The FRB had to disclose to the public how it helped individual banks unlike the Bank of England.
Without special liquidity schemes ,credit guarentees and quantitative easing by the Bank of England the whole banking system would have ground to a halt. So even banks like Barclays were saved by the Governments of the US and UK underwriting the whole Banking system.
Ur right to point out that Barclays losing out to RBS on the ABN amro takeover saved them. As Eric Varley said a while back on radio.
From the Federal Reserve Bank Barclays was helped by the various schemes set up by FRB:
Term Auction Facility-- loans from FRB for 3 months at low interest rates total $232bn
Primary Dealer Facility--- overnight funding to investment banks total $400bn
Commercial Paper Funding Facility-- total $29bn
Term Securities Lending Facility Options Programme total $7.5bn
(Source Private Eye)
These facilities were short term so Barclays have paid them back.
To say that Barclays did not get Government assistance is incorrect.
As the USA has more open disclosure than UK we are not going to know the details of specific aid that Barclays got from Bank of England.
See also this article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...bank-of-the-world-after-ubs-barclays-aid.html
ajdown
Posting in this thread
It might be if you can only get into a branch on a saturday because you have to work during the week.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
what do you think about Barclays paying 1% tax on their profits?
Dig, dig, dig
ajdown
Posting in this thread
I don't agree that they only paid a fraction of what they should have - but as I've said time and time again, targetting the branches, intimidating the staff and inconveniencing the customers, none of which are responsible, doesn't really solve the issue does it?
All it will probably do is cost Barclays a few quid getting a minimum wage security guard on the door for a few hours.
You all seem to be confusing the problem with an inappropriate, ineffective solution.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
What do you suggest? All I am hearing here is apologies for the rich.
We are all victims. The branch workers, the customers, the public in general.
The only people who win are the people at the top.
I will ask again: what do you suggest?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Bit different than this,
Isn't it?. I haven't heard any reports of workers being intimidated.
Tankus
Amused OAP
No ones mentioned thatcher yet ..he he
corporate tax revenue was for 2009 .... under Gordon browns government ..why wait until the cons get in for Chuka to do a freedom of info act , when they could have just seen the tax revenue when they were in power , and getting the statements and acted over a year ago ...? .hmm.........but I guess it gets him on TV !
Its legal ...blame the crap laws
£11bn profit is global .....not UK alone
corporate tax revenue was for 2009 .... under Gordon browns government ..why wait until the cons get in for Chuka to do a freedom of info act , when they could have just seen the tax revenue when they were in power , and getting the statements and acted over a year ago ...? .hmm.........but I guess it gets him on TV !
Its legal ...blame the crap laws
£11bn profit is global .....not UK alone
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
They are supposed to pay the difference between the foreign and uk taxes when they bring the money into this country (the tories are removing that little step) so how they end up with 1% is beyond me. I'm sure they have lawyers who will argue that it's legal....
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
WTF? Apart from the fact that this was revealed by a letter from Bob Diamond to the MP in the last month not by a FOIA over a year ago - you're spot on.
editor
hiraethified
Have you any evidence of a single customer made liable for late payment charges because of this short temporary closure?
No? Then stop lying.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Also, you massive twat, why couldn't they reveal the tax paid for 2010? Think about it before answering.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
They are supposed to pay the difference between the foreign and uk taxes when they bring the money into this country (the tories are removing that little step) so how they end up with 1% is beyond me. I'm sure they have lawyers who will argue that it's legal....
There are tax treaties that are supposed to prevent payment of taxes in two different jurisdictions.
However, instead of ensuring the companies involved don't pay double tax, it often means they pay non-double-tax. That is neither tax in one country, or the other.
In addition to that, they also manipulate profits by deciding which branch of business makes profit (it is up to accountants to decide which bits show profit).
I would imagine this means that they have made most of their profits globally in Barclays Jersey/Caymans business, whilst only declaring small profits in this country, and discounting any loss against tax.
Or something like that.
Accountants and lawyers mean they can decide how much tax they want to pay, and where they want to pay it. This inevitably means they only make profits in countries where there is 0% corporate tax. I reckon they probably could have got away with paying even less in tax here. Keeping profits offshore means they can 'defer' tax indefinitely.
editor
hiraethified
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
30 subsidiary companies in the Isle of Man, 38 in Jersey and 181 in the Cayman Islands
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves" - Matthew 21:12
Couldn't that guy have made his point without inconveniencing all those people who really needed to change money or buy doves?
editor
hiraethified
Tankus
Amused OAP
arf .......Inland revenue and the government doesn't have a clue on tax revenue in 2009 ..and needs a FOIA then ?.....ooh ! ....he he
doesn't matter what governments in power ...they all talk the talk ...but the banks just carry on because the politicos are ultimately in their pockets
http://www.offshorenet.com/2009/02/switzerland-targeted-by-gordon.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ar...lth-blasts-Brown-picking-small-countries.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ays-world-must-take-action-on-tax-havens.html
Around half of labours governing cabinet have gone into finance in one form or another
Tony blair spends less than 90 day s a year in the UK to minimise his tax payments as a non UK resident
Are the cons going to be any different ....nah
Not going to hold my breath
"same as it ever was"
"same as it ever was"
doesn't matter what governments in power ...they all talk the talk ...but the banks just carry on because the politicos are ultimately in their pockets
http://www.offshorenet.com/2009/02/switzerland-targeted-by-gordon.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ar...lth-blasts-Brown-picking-small-countries.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ays-world-must-take-action-on-tax-havens.html
Around half of labours governing cabinet have gone into finance in one form or another
Tony blair spends less than 90 day s a year in the UK to minimise his tax payments as a non UK resident
Are the cons going to be any different ....nah
Not going to hold my breath
"same as it ever was"
"same as it ever was"
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I know they have accountants and lawyers dedicated to finding loopholes, it was more of a rhetorical question. 40% of their earnings comes from the uk and ireland, it's a uk listed company - it shouldn't be that difficult to draft legislation...
Tankus
Amused OAP
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
It isn't difficult to draft legislation.
However, there are a few problems.
First of all, more complex tax legislation only means for more opportunities for loopholes.
Second of all, companies can incorporate in offshore jurisdictions. They might be a UK listed company, but they will have hundreds of different companies set up all over the world through which they will channel capital, making it impossible to say where profits are made (this is especially true for financial services, who conjour money out of thin air), allowing accountants to decide where they make profit. If you look at Barclays, they will say that a large proportion of the profit made globally will be made offshore, where there is no corporate or capital gains tax, and they can channel money through any of their accounts in any countries in order to decide where they pay tax etc.
This is a massive problem. No amount of legislation in one country can solve this, and it becomes especially tough when you consider the lobbying power globally of offshore capital.
I cant remember the exact figure, but the money in accounts offshore is something like $3 trillion, roughly equal to the GDP of the US.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Just out of curiosity:
The book I have been reading to find out about all of this is Treasure Islands by Nicolas Shaxson. He doesn't really come up with any solutions, except to vaguely advocate some kind of nicer, fairer capitalism.
My question is, how do you combat the power of offshore capital? I have been thinking about this a lot but I have not really come up with any satisfactory solutions.
