Are the SWP a State Asset?

[Magnus McGinty]

I don't have any particular theory on this beyond it's something that exists in 'the left' and mostly tries to control all initiatives or sucks the life out of those it can't. And always has the resources to do this.

It's conspiraloonary though so I'm mostly looking for arguments AGAINST this, as difficult as forming arguments in support of them might be to some.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

We all know how ineffective UaF (a swappie front) are with regards to antifascism. Is this deliberate?

It was this historical article from the RA archives that planted the seed though, that they basically destroyed the Socialist Alliance.

Red Action: News - January 2002

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Or is this just normal for top down socialism?

 

[DotCommunist]

on the one hand you think 'why would they bother' but then on the other hand you remember the ridiculous nature (more than ridiculous, downright fucking abusive) relations some spycops had with green anarcho sorts who are as likely to pose a risk to the Realm as I am to get up on time four days running. So you'd assume The Man must have people in there somewhere. I base this on nothing than 'I recon'. But as a wholesale tool and bought asset? I don't really see why. Again, this rests on the strength of a 'recon'.

 

[likesfish]

Its a small annoying cult that does more damage to the left than Mi5 could ever dream of doing .
Never stop your enemy when they are making a mistake.
The SWP don't actually have any power apart from printing signs and turning up at every Demo I'm surprised there weren't some very confused trots at the countryside alliance march.
not sure they even count as official subversives

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's entirely plausible that it's "my brand of left is the best brand despite it not being effective for decades".

But why would you do this unless you're mad or are simply pleased that the strategy doesn't work?

 

[planetgeli]

The SWP has resources? It never used to. Was always an expert on bandwagon jumping and ruining others legitimate protests and actions. And standing at the back selling fucking newspapers.

RCP and Living marxism, the glossy magazine sold mid shelf in WH Smiths. I always thought they were the dodgy '5' front. What are they now? A TV production company? And Claire Fox spouting shit on Radio 4 now and again. Make the SWP look like the amateurs they are.

 

[butchersapron]

Stupid thing to post. The op is shit.

 

[Red Sky]

I hate their relentless interference in every grassroots initiative they can get their hands on but have to admire their energy. Often they just seem to outwork the competition .

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'd say printing a regular newspaper takes resources. And having the reach to appeal to the automatons who are probably all in Momentum now.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Stupid thing to post. The op is shit.

It's tongue in cheek. Pour some input into the discussion regarding the SWP's monolithic presence in the left, if you can be arsed.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Your question is shit. That is my response to your question. With swear words.

 

[butchersapron]

Go away.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Ok do nothing on the ground KF, I will.

 

[Red Sky]

Part of their omnipresence derives from having paid officers. As far as the UAF was concerned, as soon as an EDL demo was announced Weymann was on the train to the town or city to meet and greet. Local trade union contacts would enable him to convene a meeting and mean that by the time anyone else was even thinking of counter mobilising the UAF were the only show in town.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It was a stupid question according to somebody who doesn't do anything but read books.

Fuck knows what happens when the working class say daft things that those who read books tell them to "go away" about but it's similar to how the SWP behave by most accounts.

 

[crossthebreeze]

Part of their omnipresence derives from having paid officers. As far as the UAF was concerned, as soon as an EDL demo was announced Weymann was on the train to the town or city to meet and greet. Local trade union contacts would enable him to convene a meeting and mean that by the time anyone else was even thinking of counter mobilising the UAF were the only show in town.

True. Or if that fails and everyone else gets organised first, spend the next few weeks expelling people from uaf; calling their own event; turning up at the other organisations meetings, shouting in their faces, and refusing to leave; ripping down posters advertising the antifascist protest; using contacts with local mosques, and bme city councillors and business people to put massive pressure on local bme people to attend the uaf event not the other protest; spreading rumours about specific people within unions and communities; "banning" people from other leftwing meetings; disrupting anti-fascist leafletting; and putting people at risk by shouting out "rival" organisers names in front of police and fash, etc etc.

 

[bluescreen]

There should be a thread named Stupid Questions, where I can ask who funds SWP.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There should be a thread named: I love the working class but tell them to fuck off if they tried to engage me but tell others off that I think are doing the same.

The problem is it isn't catchy. Nor can any interesting acronym be drawn from It.

 

[Red Sky]

True. Or if that fails and everyone else gets organised first, spend the next few weeks expelling people from uaf; calling their own event; turning up at the other organisations meetings, shouting in their faces, and refusing to leave; ripping down posters advertising the antifascist protest; using contacts with local mosques, and bme city councillors and business people to put massive pressure on local bme people to attend the uaf event not the other protest; spreading rumours about specific people within unions and communities; "banning" people from other leftwing meetings; disrupting anti-fascist leafletting; and putting people at risk by shouting out "rival" organisers names in front of police and fash, etc etc.

That's a lot of work.

 

[Pickman's model]

There should be a thread named: I love the working class but tell them to fuck off if they tried to engage me but tell others off that I think are doing the same.

The problem is it isn't catchy. Nor can any interesting acronym be drawn from It.

Use your imagination mm

 

[mx wcfc]

I was SWP in the mid 80s. Met some good people, met some arseholes. Sold a lot of papers!
I can't remember where I heard this, but I remember being told that special branch's view was that the SWP were "noisy but harmless".
There were occasions when I thought we were getting things badly wrong, but it's all too long ago to remember properly, and totally irrelevant now.

 

[Red Sky]

True. Or if that fails and everyone else gets organised first, spend the next few weeks expelling people from uaf; calling their own event; turning up at the other organisations meetings, shouting in their faces, and refusing to leave; ripping down posters advertising the antifascist protest; using contacts with local mosques, and bme city councillors and business people to put massive pressure on local bme people to attend the uaf event not the other protest; spreading rumours about specific people within unions and communities; "banning" people from other leftwing meetings; disrupting anti-fascist leafletting; and putting people at risk by shouting out "rival" organisers names in front of police and fash, etc etc.

I think there's a lot of variation depending on who the local UAF are. The SWPs can bus a couple of people in for the build up but not dozens.

 

[crossthebreeze]

There should be a thread named Stupid Questions, where I can ask who funds SWP.

Genuine question even if it is stupid...Where does their funding come from?

 

[19force8]

Silly question, might as well ask the same about Corbyn, Momentum, Class War, etc. I don't doubt the state could infiltrate the SWP, after all the BNP did, but to what end? It seems to me the core of their organisation has been around for years with solid working class credentials making it harder for spycops to have much effect. Also explains where much of their money comes from - even a tenner a week soon mounts up.

 

[Libertad]

A tenner a week? Is that how much their subs are?

 

[emanymton]

A tenner a week? Is that how much their subs are?

Many members pay a lot more than that. 15 years ago when I was a member I knew an IT lecturer paying £125 a month.

 

[emanymton]

Many members pay a lot more than that. 15 years ago when I was a member I knew an IT lecturer paying £125 a month.

Maybe that should be some rather than many.

 

[alex_]

Genuine question even if it is stupid...Where does their funding come from?

It wouldn't be very hard to make sure the branches which met the criteria you were interested in (noisiest/best organised/hardest left/whatever) got the occasional "bequest from an ex members will" - especially if you didn't have to worry about anti money laundering regs - and realistically if you were on the committee of something and 5k turned up from someone you couldn't remember how hard would you think about it ?

 

[likesfish]

I think the SWP can be best summouned up as that most dangerous of things an Energetic Idiot

They mean well but a lot of their actions are counterproductive trying to take over everything means anything they get their sticky mitts on rapidly becomes irrelvant as its tainted as an SWP front doesnt help that the swp leadership is virtually unknown .
Due to irrelvance rather than cunning plans in smoked filled rooms