Are Astral Travels real or imaginary experiences?

[qbeac]

Hello everybody:

Has anybody ever wondered whether Astral Travels (or OBE, Out of Body Experiences) are real or imaginary experiences? Do you think there is any scientific way to find out the difference for sure?

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[Larry O'Hara]

Well

..there certainly is something to it, though whether that 'something' can be apprehended by Western science, or indeed should be, is another matter entirely.

 

[tom k&e]

I blame the DMT

 

[purves grundy]

Did God speak to me in a dream, or did I dream God spoke to me?

Either way I'd be fucked off.

 

[fen_boy]

Cockrot!

 

[nino_savatte]

Aye, I astral travel quite a bit as it goes. I seem to realise what is a dream and what isn't.

 

[qbeac]

Hello, everybody, this is the Table we have eleborated, please, check it out and see what you think.

In this table you can see the different variants of the Agnostic Method and their relative reliability level, which are based on the mathematical calculations of guessing different types of random numbers by chance. These calculations have been performed by two professional mathematicians (hetzer & leach) in two Spanish mathematics forums (100cia.com & MIGUI). See links bellow.


TABLE 1 FOR THE “AGNOSTIC METHOD”

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[qbeac]

Hi everybody,

This is another one of the few things from that debate that we have been able to translate to English so far.

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[Orang Utan]

Bollocks

 

[gentlegreen]

er, welcome to Urban qbeac - hope this isn't just a one-off post ... hobnob, Dub, fiver etc .....

Oh and you clearly haven't taken enough psychedelic drugs .....

.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Moved to "science and environment" as the poster has said they want scientific opinions....

 

[nino_savatte]

Wtf is going on?

 

[fen_boy]

This thread has just 'Astral Travelled' to another forum, that's it I'm convinved now.. where do I sign?

 

[qbeac]

er, welcome to Urban qbeac - hope this isn't just a one-off post ... hobnob, Dub, fiver etc .....

Oh and you clearly haven't taken enough psychedelic drugs .....

.

Hi gentlegreen, jajaja, no, I have not taken psychedelic drugs... but please, think about it, what do you think about this method, and about Table 1, do you think the dilema could be solved once and for all?

This has been a very long debate in the Spanish forum, and we believe this method could work, but we would love to hear the inputs from other people, just in case there is any conceptual error or something in it.

By the way, where is the general location of this forum, USA, England, Australia?

Chao. qbeac.

 

[rednblack]

astral travel is both real and imaginary, in other words loads of peole have experienced something which they describe as astral travel what is more important is asking what the definition of AT is...

 

[rednblack]

By the way, where is the general location of this forum, USA, England, Australia?

Chao. qbeac.

britain

 

[qbeac]

astral travel is both real and imaginary, in other words loads of peole have experienced something which they describe as astral travel what is more important is asking what the definition of AT is...

Well, when we say "real" we mean that is not happening inside of your brain, but outside of it. Real is the opposite of imaginary, and imaginary could be anything which is constructed by your own brain (dreams, hallucinations, etc.). Therefore, real is something "real" which takes place outside of your brain in the real world.

This is a short definition, do you know what I mean?

qbeac.

 

[qbeac]

britain

Thanks, over here Spain.

 

[Major Tom]

I've known a few people who are absolutely certain they've had O of BE's. None of them were very keen to talk about it until they realised I wasn;t going to take the piss.

 

[fractionMan]

Tis balls. Or not. Unprovable faith stuff, like god.

 

[tom k&e]

If you think you can prove the existence of astral travel by some proper scientific experiment, please stop wasting your time here, and go get a million bucks off of James Randi

 

[Major Tom]

astral travel is both real and imaginary, in other words loads of peole have experienced something which they describe as astral travel what is more important is asking what the definition of AT is...

The guy I knew who talked about this was able to gleen objective information while O of B to verufy that he'd indeed been O of B. This is the sort of thing that can seperate true O of B experiences from imagined experiences.

I know of someone who claims he was seen by an observer while O of B - as a manifestation - quite shocking!!

I'm not sure how much I believe though.

 

[gentlegreen]

Hi gentlegreen, jajaja, no, I have not taken psychedelic drugs... but please, think about it, what do you think about this method, and about Table 1, do you think the dilema could be solved once and for all?

This has been a very long debate in the Spanish forum, and we believe this method could work, but we would love to hear the inputs from other people, just in case there is any conceptual error or something in it.

By the way, where is the general location of this forum, USA, England, Australia?

Chao. qbeac.

But it isn't remotely interesting
natural observable phenomena are interesting, people who look for "something else" are simply hung up on their own mortality.
I'm sorry that superstitious nonsense is still sufficiently prevalent in the 21st century that people feel obliged to devise experiments to prove or disprove it.
(been there, seen that, 1970s "Tomorrow People", Uri Geller, cold reading, James Randi blah blah ...)

Take some drugs, observe the vast potential of the human mind to store, process, regurgitate and synthesise experiences and you might take up something more interesting.

I'd guess you're a young person ?

.

 

[jæd]

I'd guess you're a young person ?

Or just a whacko...

 

[qbeac]

I've known a few people who are absolutely certain they've had O of BE's. None of them were very keen to talk about it until they realised I wasn;t going to take the piss.

Hi Major Tom, I do too, I know people who say they can do it. In fact, I have had several lucid dreams and they are quite strange, but they are not OBE. However, they say that if you have a lucid dream you may be able to OBE, but I have never tried it yet.

If you have the chace to talk to those people, please, tell them about the Agnostic Method, and see what they think.

There are several books that explain Astral Travelling, for instance:

Experiences Beyond the Body
Author: William Buhlman.

It's very interesting what he says. I tried to follow his techniques and I easily started feelling the first symptoms he describes in his book, but I got scared and stoped doing it. This is not a joke, and that's why we have designed that method, to find out what's the truth behind it.

qbeac.

 

[qbeac]

But it isn't remotely interesting
natural observable phenomena are interesting, people who look for "something else" are simply hung up on their own mortality....

Are you "totally" sure, gentlegreen? Are you totally sure the results of these experiments are going to be negative?

 

[teecee]

It's a phenomonen known as lucid dreaming and is the opposite of what happens when we are sleepwalking and is more likely to happen at certain stages of the sleep cycle IIRC.

lWhy has no-one who has claimed to be able to astral travell has ever passed a simple test. ie tell us what in a table in a room on the opposite side of the house/town/world. Could it be becuase they are not actually going anywhere

 

[rednblack]

Well, when we say "real" we mean that is not happening inside of your brain, but outside of it. Real is the opposite of imaginary, and imaginary could be anything which is constructed by your own brain (dreams, hallucinations, etc.). Therefore, real is something "real" which takes place outside of your brain in the real world.

This is a short definition, do you know what I mean?

qbeac.

i know what you mean, however i disagree, how much does our perception of the outside world get coloured and distorted by imagination?

also there are two types of AT, one is where you seem to be floating through or above the "real" world and can see people and places you know, andthe other where you appear to be in another plane of existence (sometimes described as the psychic plane) now i've done the second many times (with the help of meditation and psychedelic drugs, though now i can do it without the drugs if i want) but ive never done the first

now in the case of the psychic plane, how can that be proved as not being real, it clearly doesnt take place in the physical world, but if it happens then surely it is "real"?

 

[qbeac]

It's a phenomonen known as lucid dreaming and is the opposite of what happens when we are sleepwalking and is more likely to happen at certain stages of the sleep cycle IIRC.

lWhy has no-one who has claimed to be able to astral travell has ever passed a simple test. ie tell us what in a table in a room on the opposite side of the house/town/world. Could it be becuase they are not actually going anywhere

Why did humanity believe for thousands of years that the Earth was the center of the universe? .... and it had to come along Mr. Galileo with a small telescope to prove everybody wrong! Could the same thing happen now?

 

[qbeac]

i know what you mean, however i disagree, how much does our perception of the outside world get coloured and distorted by imagination?
....

Please, take a close look at Table 1 I posted in the first page of this thread, and you will realize that guessing by chance two ordered words taken at random from a regular dictionary is much, much, much more difficult to do than guessing by chance a lottery number such as the Spanish Cupon de la ONCE, which is a five digits number.

If somebody could "guessed" several times in a role those two words, don't you think that would prove something is going on with these types of experiences?