its a bit alarmist when you consider what is known in the situation with the app, and what other providers set out ...
Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)
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its a bit alarmist when you consider what is known in the situation with the app, and what other providers set out ...
Sure, but you do seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet over it.
They're a corp, they're going to behave the way they're going to behave. Their primary motivation is money.
I don't agree with it, but it's pointless expecting them to behave any other way, or even hoping for it.
Just like with Microsoft, Google, you name 'em...
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
I'm still unconvinced that Apple's NDA is as restrictive as you're making out, or has been suggested elsewhere.
If it is, then, as I said earlier, then I wouldn't be surprised if his app is pulled from the App Store.
I just signed in to Apple Developer site and read the Terms for myself.
Apple said:
Apple said:
The current terms (as revised on October 20) apply to pre-release versions of the iPhone SDK, not to pre-release versions of the developer's own software.
Which seems pretty much on par with the Sony Ericsson agreement. I'm more and more convinced that this is a red herring.
editor
hiraethified
Then find me some recent examples of developers for other platforms being treated in a similar fashion. Does any other platform maintain a single, manufacturer-controlled outlet for apps, banning programs deemed to be competitive with their own apps?
My concern is that Apple is now a major player in the mobile market, and they are setting hugely restrictive, power-freak conditions that are bad for both consumers and developers. I'm interested in technology so it worries me.
If the direction they're taking doesn't bother you, fair enough.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
but none of that is to do with the NDA
Heh...
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
If the hugely unimpressive App store is anything to go by they will have no choice but to relax the restrictions.
Unfortunately Android isn't really ready yet so isn't providing any competition.
Kanda
Diving wanker
I'd think it's actually filtering out a fuckton of shit too
Based on the list I've seen, not loads. There's not really much - in terms of number of apps - that have been banned. A fair few were IP related, e.g. Tetris clones.
The only meaningful ones I remember were Netshare (tethering), and over-the-air podcast grabbing thing.
editor
hiraethified
There's 'nuff utter shit on the App Store:
"16 totally pointless apps that shame the iPhone"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...that-shame-the-iphone-483773?src=rss&attr=all
But to balance things out, here's "16 free iPhone apps you can't live without"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ree-iphone-apps-you-can-t-live-without-453391
"16 totally pointless apps that shame the iPhone"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...that-shame-the-iphone-483773?src=rss&attr=all
But to balance things out, here's "16 free iPhone apps you can't live without"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ree-iphone-apps-you-can-t-live-without-453391
With regards to the possible reasons for the podcast app bans, here's a scenario.
You (Apple) decide you want to do something in this area. You don't want to piss off your carriers, so you say: Tell you what, we'll cap the size of the downloads. 10mb okay? Yes say the carriers.
Sometime into dev, you get an 3rd party application in through the door. No limit.
Now it would be *very* odd then for Apple to say - err, you know we said we're going to be bandwidth friendly? Well, there's a bedroom dev guy who isn't and we are powerless!
The conflict doesn't arise if you (the OS supplier) aren't developing apps where you have to show consideration for your carriers.
In a sense, that's where the Android model works better for Google's image. They mostly* seem to be leave the bad-cop stuff to the carriers.
* Google are reportedly developing anti-jailbreak, so they are doing *some* of their carriers bidding.
You (Apple) decide you want to do something in this area. You don't want to piss off your carriers, so you say: Tell you what, we'll cap the size of the downloads. 10mb okay? Yes say the carriers.
Sometime into dev, you get an 3rd party application in through the door. No limit.
Now it would be *very* odd then for Apple to say - err, you know we said we're going to be bandwidth friendly? Well, there's a bedroom dev guy who isn't and we are powerless!
The conflict doesn't arise if you (the OS supplier) aren't developing apps where you have to show consideration for your carriers.
In a sense, that's where the Android model works better for Google's image. They mostly* seem to be leave the bad-cop stuff to the carriers.
* Google are reportedly developing anti-jailbreak, so they are doing *some* of their carriers bidding.
editor
hiraethified
Maybe. But why didn't Apple just say so rather than remaining vague and aloof and pissing off developers who had presumably put in a considerable amount of time, money and effort to create the program in the first place?
elbows
Well-Known Member
They probably dont want to open cans of worms that could see them expected to comment on every issue they ever have with a 3rd party developer. And if they start talking a bit then it will probably cause some people to forget where the NDA line is and start discussing technologies and detail that Apple doesnt want a public discussion about.
I think we are talking about 2 different rejections which isnt helping. My guesses would be that the reasons for rejection differ, I have some fair guesses as to specifics but dont think my speculation will add much clarity to this debate.
The balance between openness and secrecy is not an easy one once you decide you want some control, I usually find it mildly ludicrous and prone to unfairness unless you go for a totally open approach, with no boundaries to stumble over.
Ultimately if we swept away all of the corporate and developer issues then mobile platforms will still unlikely be 100% open because there is a part that the government controls via radio regulations which they seek to control and keep private for several diverse reasons.
I think we are talking about 2 different rejections which isnt helping. My guesses would be that the reasons for rejection differ, I have some fair guesses as to specifics but dont think my speculation will add much clarity to this debate.
The balance between openness and secrecy is not an easy one once you decide you want some control, I usually find it mildly ludicrous and prone to unfairness unless you go for a totally open approach, with no boundaries to stumble over.
Ultimately if we swept away all of the corporate and developer issues then mobile platforms will still unlikely be 100% open because there is a part that the government controls via radio regulations which they seek to control and keep private for several diverse reasons.
In my speculative scenario, that wouldn't have been possible. App developer A (Apple) takes a carrier friendly position, and assures them. It's all very app specific, so there is no policy change from the OS provider (also Apple) as such.
Now our independent dev doesn't have the carrier relationship, develops something that isn't carrier friendly. Apple, who are both app developer and carrier defender, step in.
The problem, as I see it, is the model. If the issues are bandwidth, the OS supplier should leave that to the carriers. Let them do their own banning/throttling/capping.
In that sense, I think Google are playing a smarter game in the long run.
I'd temper that with my belief that Apple wouldn't have got out of the gate with such a clearly delineated setup.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
There is in excess of 10000 applications you can download on there now, most and I mean > 99.9% of them are really just peoples 1st iPhone application. There are none that I would call a premier application. the iTunes remote is one of the best applications esp if you have an air tunes.
TomTom releasing their SatNav software would be an example. Small one man band apps are fine up to a point but some proper software is needed. Perhaps I am jumping the gun its still early days.
You can get a feeling from what I mean by looking at that list of 16 'must have' applications on the iPhone. Phone Saber!? Please....
djbombscare
Plays with knives
Well I had to bite the bullet and got one on Thursday.
The simplicity of it is freaking me out a bit. No back buttons is annoying, and I aint found any cursor arrows to position the cursor around. My big fingers make placing the cursor in text it a little tricky and I have to delete some letter etc to get where I want to be most times.
Dont get me wrong I like it. And can see what they're trying to achieve. BUT coming from the XDA/SPV models I'm find it hard to get to grips with I like having to click an x button to turn something off rather than going to the home screen. I like being able to zoom out of something with a slider. I feel I dont have control of it if you know what I mean.
I do love the fact that I dont put someone on hold whne in a call because my ears touched the screen which is what frequently happens with the SPV's
So yeah really user friendly and simple to use. Which is great for everyone.
But not great for me as I've got used to a system. I'll get there in the end I'm sure.
The simplicity of it is freaking me out a bit. No back buttons is annoying, and I aint found any cursor arrows to position the cursor around. My big fingers make placing the cursor in text it a little tricky and I have to delete some letter etc to get where I want to be most times.
Dont get me wrong I like it. And can see what they're trying to achieve. BUT coming from the XDA/SPV models I'm find it hard to get to grips with I like having to click an x button to turn something off rather than going to the home screen. I like being able to zoom out of something with a slider. I feel I dont have control of it if you know what I mean.
I do love the fact that I dont put someone on hold whne in a call because my ears touched the screen which is what frequently happens with the SPV's
So yeah really user friendly and simple to use. Which is great for everyone.
But not great for me as I've got used to a system. I'll get there in the end I'm sure.
safari has a back button ?
why would you need cursor arrows ? did someone chop off your pinkies ? 
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
What Marius said for cursor positioning.
Turn the screen off and lock by clicking the power button.
Pinch/Un-pinch for zooming.
Then read this
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iphone_user_guide.pdf
*waits for OMG its so easy to use* post.
Turn the screen off and lock by clicking the power button.
Pinch/Un-pinch for zooming.
Then read this
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iphone_user_guide.pdf
*waits for OMG its so easy to use* post.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Regarding the quality of apps, yes in some ways this is not quite a truly smart phone yet. Ive got more than 20 apps which I consider to be great fun, and less than 10 which are really useful. Ive been impressed by the range & quantity of music apps, if not yet their depth, and serious business applications, aside from stock trackers and todo lists, are thin on the ground. Some of the games and novelty apps are beyond awful. Some have exxtremely limited longeivity that may still equate to 59p well spent.
The potential of Location information has not really been tapped yet, although there is something glorious about that Ocarina app that is a wind instrument with a globe where you can hear other peoples attempts to play it, and their location. Its simple, arguably serves little real purpose, but all the same I was surprised what an interesting sense of global belonging & togetherness it managed to instill in me for at least 1 minute.
I have been both fascinated and saddened by much of what has come from web 2.0, and although its tempting for me to write these iphone apps off as being 'smartware for a dumb generation' there is something quite lovely about it all too. If you want a dull, clunky, serious but extremely functional smartphone, I can see why the iphone might not be a brilliant choice, at least not yet. But as the device has also brought joy to me from a dimension seldom seen since I was an 8 year old playing with a ZX Spectrum, I do not regret my purchase of the iphone.
The potential of Location information has not really been tapped yet, although there is something glorious about that Ocarina app that is a wind instrument with a globe where you can hear other peoples attempts to play it, and their location. Its simple, arguably serves little real purpose, but all the same I was surprised what an interesting sense of global belonging & togetherness it managed to instill in me for at least 1 minute.
I have been both fascinated and saddened by much of what has come from web 2.0, and although its tempting for me to write these iphone apps off as being 'smartware for a dumb generation' there is something quite lovely about it all too. If you want a dull, clunky, serious but extremely functional smartphone, I can see why the iphone might not be a brilliant choice, at least not yet. But as the device has also brought joy to me from a dimension seldom seen since I was an 8 year old playing with a ZX Spectrum, I do not regret my purchase of the iphone.
djbombscare
Plays with knives
safari has a back button ?
NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari?
As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote
Kanda
Diving wanker
NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari?
As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote
What fucking back buttons are you on about then??
Cursors??? wtf?
NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari?
As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote
safari has a back button in the bottom left corner ... apps usually have button top left to return to the last screen ...
djbombscare
Plays with knives
I'm just finding it difficult cos I'm used to a different system and finding it a bit too simple.
Its like learning to drive a car the traditional way and then they develop one that works on thought. Its all feels a bit odd and unfamilair and out if your control
I'll get it in the end.
Its like learning to drive a car the traditional way and then they develop one that works on thought. Its all feels a bit odd and unfamilair and out if your control
I'll get it in the end.
djbombscare
Plays with knives
Ok so now next question is how do I set up a tune as my rigtone on it ?
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Import it into garageband, cut it down to size, export as ringtone, sync ringtones in itunes.
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