Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Bingo. An economic and moral drive to reduce dependence on China whilst some on here persist in comparing Apple products unfavourably to the likes of Huawei and Xaomi genocide-supporter's phones.
Hugely sensible.
Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Bingo. An economic and moral drive to reduce dependence on China whilst some on here persist in comparing Apple products unfavourably to the likes of Huawei and Xaomi genocide-supporter's phones.
Hugely sensible.
editor
hiraethified
But those enormous, record breaking fat profits keep rolling in either way!
editor
hiraethified
Always a tricky stance to insist that your particular luxury phone is somehow more ethically pure than others, particularly when they use the same parts, materials and labour as the ones you're damning from your lofty perch.
www.imore.com
goodelectronics.org
www.smartcompany.com.au
Apple accused of ignoring supplier labor law breaches in China
A new report says Apple may have ignored breaches in labor laws by its suppliers in factories in China, pertaining to the use of temporary workers.
www.imore.com
From Apple to Huawei: profit comes before workers' rights
Updated rating of the 10 IT firms with the biggest market share in Switzerland: The new market giant Huawei and HTC still have much to do.
goodelectronics.org
A hostage situation: Why Apple won't address its unethical supply chain
Manufacturing company Apple faces a deep-seated problem: human rights, environmental and ethical problems persist inside Apple’s vast global supply chains.
www.smartcompany.com.au
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The main point obviously being that Apple is moving away from reliance on China and has never been hand-in-glove with the filthy murderous regime in the same way that Hauwei and Xioami are.
But hey! Who cares about IP theft, industrial espionage that would make your toes curl, torture and current day genocide, when you can buy a nice cheap phone with a super-dooper camera?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
They didn't though. They chose to exploit the cheap labour, like everyone else. Now that the full extent of the evilness of the regime is becoming more and more widely known they, along with many other halfway ethical businesses, are looking to reduce their reliance on the country. Conversely, some posters here choose to support the Chinese regime almost directly by purchasing or promoting products which they know full well are highly suspect, but that doesn't matter because they are cheap and have good cameras. Basically it's a big "fuck you victims of the Chinese regime. We're ok with our cheap tech. So there!"
They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
There are plenty of non-Chinese phones, LG make loads.
Why anyone would buy a Huawei I’ve no idea.
Why anyone would buy a Huawei I’ve no idea.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No, not directly, certainly not in the same way that Chinese tech firms do. And remember, we're comparing companies who are actively seeking to reduce their use of China, to those that never will, and some who are arguably actually part of the regime in question.
editor
hiraethified
You'd think the most valuable company in the world would be willing to use their vast resources to lead by example, but their hands are covered in blood and exploitation and anyone trying to claim some sort of high moral ground from buying such luxury products is living in a world of delusion.
The facts:
And how filthy rich are they?People
In December 2019 a Guardian article named Apple as defendants in a lawsuit filed in Washington DC by human rights firm International Rights Advocates on behalf of 14 parents and children from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Other defendants in this lawsuit included Google, Dell, Microsoft and Tesla.
Several families were seeking damages and compensation for the death or serious injury of children who they claim were working in cobalt mines in Apple's supply chain.
Also in 2019 the Ranking Digital Rights (RDR) Corporate Accountability Index gave Apple a score of just 46%. The report rated companies on "commitments and policies, based on international human rights standards." Apple was said to have scored poorly, "due to its lack of governance and oversight over human rights risks, and also lack of clear disclosure of policies affecting users’ freedom of expression."
Environment
Apple received Ethical Consumer's worst rating for environmental reporting in 2019. Whilst the information in their 2019 Environmental Responsibility report covered Apple's main environmental impacts, including conflict minerals, it included only one dated and quantified future environmental target.
Politics
In July 2019 Ethical Consumer awarded Apple a worst mark for strategies that were likely to be used to avoid tax. This was because the family tree for Apple Inc on www.hoovers.com and showed that the company had subsidiaries in Ireland, the Netherlands, and Singapore.
These were jurisdictions which were considered by Ethical Consumer to be tax havens and were therefore considered to be at high risk of being used for tax avoidance purposes.
How ethical is Apple Inc? | Ethical Consumer
Is Apple ethical? Our research highlights several ethical issues in Apple.www.ethicalconsumer.org
1. Economies of Entire Countries
Global GDP was $85.9 trillion in 2018, per the latest data from the World Bank, and Apple's market cap is 1.5% of that figure. Compared to the U.S., the world's largest economy with GDP of $20.5 trillion in 2018, Apple's market cap represents 6.3%.2
Only 14 countries have annual GDP figures greater than Apple's market cap, which is just below the $1.4 trillion GDPs each for Australia and Spain. The nations with GDP figures immediately below $1.3 trillion are Mexico, Indonesia, The Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Switzerland.2
Moreover, the World Bank compiles GDP data for 263 countries, regions, or collections of countries with similar characteristics. Of these, 216, or 82.1%, generate less than $1.3 trillion in annual GDP.2
At $2.08 Trillion, Apple Is Bigger Than These Things
Apple's net worth is larger than the GDP of most countries, the U.S. budget deficit, and the inflation-adjusted costs of all but one U.S. war.www.investopedia.com
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Cheap phones with good cameras. That's all that matters to some folk. Shameful stuff.
pesh
Well-Known Member
How is Apples move to India going? last i heard no one had been paid and the factory had been destroyed.
Are Billy McFarland and Ja Rule in charge?
First off I should say I abhor the Chinese state and all it stands for. Nevertheless it's a bit galling to hear accusations of IP theft especially from governments such as the U.S. whose wealth not only came from slavery but the wholesale theft of IP. Now that other countries are trying to develop using the same methods they are hauling up the ladder so no one else can use it. The same applies to the environment, the U.S. and Western Europe plundered and burnt much of the world for nearly 200 years now it's all China/India etc are major polluters and must be stopped, again pulling the ladder they used up so no one else can use it.
Personally I don't care about where the capitalist is that's exploiting me, it's the fact of the exploitation that's the problem.
There are very many sources about U.S, theft of IP and after Snowden if you don't think they are still up to their necks in it you are sadly misinformed:
In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans
Intellectual pirates were celebrated in the young United States, just as they are now in China. A man who smuggled a cotton-processing machine from London was hailed by one Pennsylvania trade group as "the ingenious artizan who counterfeited the Carding and Spinning Machine" and was promised awards
apnews.com
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Not as well as one would hope clearly, hopefully they'll improve there.
How's the Uighur genocide and mass torture, detainment and execution of dissidents going?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Agreed, so far as possible. But for some those cheap prices and natty cameras are just too good to resist.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Fortunately, if you don't want to use Apple products, other non-Chinese options are available, as Plaitinumsage points out. I don't expect they'll satisfy the more hypocritically ostrich-like, genocide-supporting, tech enthusiasts amongst us though.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Googled LG human rights abuses. They seem an equally lovely bunch.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
I think you can assume a base level of arseholery from all of them. There’s then varying degrees of cuntitude on top.Here we go. This is where all the murder-phone punters start screaming "they're all as bad as each other!" and go frantically Googling for Apple and other manufacturer's vagaries.
They really aren't all as bad as each other, you know.
Yes they fucking are including the "small business embedded in the community" bollocks.Here we go. This is where all the murder-phone punters start screaming "they're all as bad as each other!" and go frantically Googling for Apple and other manufacturer's vagaries.
They really aren't all as bad as each other, you know.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The thing is, there's plenty to be critical about Apple, indeed all large corporates, particularly in the tech world. The trouble is the most vocal critics on here attack the wrong things for the wrong reasons and in their haste, have to overlook some glaring troubles in their own back yards. It's hilarious how easily you can guarantee their attendence on a thread with a few well chosen criticisms.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
If you really think that, you need to go and sit with the others in the dunce's corner.
Stunning comeback.
pesh
Well-Known Member
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Cheers. Stunning silliness deserves a stunning response!
Yes definitely a cunning stunt.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Can someone post a graph which shows how bad each company is compared to the others, please? I will then use it to compare when buying my next phone. For example if Apple is 10% better than LG, but LG's camera is 11% better than Apple's, then LG actually represents the most ethical choice when you measure ethical goodness per consumer benefit unit, which is the only way to do it meaningfully, otherwise the only non-hypocritical stance would be to not own a phone at all.
editor
hiraethified
Indeed. The selective recall and hypocrisy shown by people keen to defend their particular brand of luxury smartphone is quite hilarious, as is people defending the richest and most exploitative tech company in the world. The very company who have the means to lead by example and improve the lives of millions of workers across the world, but chose to defend their obscene profits instead.First off I should say I abhor the Chinese state and all it stands for. Nevertheless it's a bit galling to hear accusations of IP theft especially from governments such as the U.S. whose wealth not only came from slavery but the wholesale theft of IP. Now that other countries are trying to develop using the same methods they are hauling up the ladder so no one else can use it. The same applies to the environment, the U.S. and Western Europe plundered and burnt much of the world for nearly 200 years now it's all China/India etc are major polluters and must be stopped, again pulling the ladder they used up so no one else can use it.
Personally I don't care about where the capitalist is that's exploiting me, it's the fact of the exploitation that's the problem.
There are very many sources about U.S, theft of IP and after Snowden if you don't think they are still up to their necks in it you are sadly misinformed:
In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans
Intellectual pirates were celebrated in the young United States, just as they are now in China. A man who smuggled a cotton-processing machine from London was hailed by one Pennsylvania trade group as "the ingenious artizan who counterfeited the Carding and Spinning Machine" and was promised awards
All of the mainstream tech companies are fucking cunts, happy to use components created out of misery, and we're all guilty of overlooking that to own a phone.
If you've got a nice shiny smartphone and you're trying to claim some kind of higher ground because of the particular mega-corp on the case, you're really quite deluded.
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