Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)

[elbows]

Any news on rock bottom mobile basics like cut and paste, MMS and video?

Nope. 3rd party apps could add rudimentary video support if Apple allows such apps to be distributed. Actually Im really looking forward to seeing what stink ensues when we get to find out what sort of Apps Apple arent allowing. Adobe already said they are going to do flash for iphone, which Apple doesnt seem too keen on. It could get ugly, Apple have a track record that suggests their reputation could get even worse than Microsofts one day.

 

[elbows]

Constantly having to jailbreak an phone again and again just to get the basics doesn't look like a lot of fun either, to be honest.

I see Apple 2.0 has been designed to not work with unlocked phones too, so the cycle will continue all over again.

Indeed. What the iphone does, it does very well, but its limitations are certainly clear. For these sorts of reasons Id be quite happy sticking to a different mobile phone and just using an ipod touch, if only the ipod touch had a speaker built in.

 

[elbows]

Meanwhile US citizens are pouring over the details of the AT&T pricing and seem to be calculating that the price hasnt really gone down, indeed perhaps up, as its a 2 year contract. I guess we have to wait till tomorrow at the earliest to establish O2's pricing & terms, although as low as £99 upfront was rumored.

 

[skyscraper101]

Even as a mac user, I find the cult of this 'jesus phone' by mac fanboys cringeworthy

 

[elbows]

Well the original launch and hysteria was certainly cringeworthy, but at least that seems to have died down a bit these days, and it gave us the 'jesus phone' term which I find hilarious.

Plus anything which draws attention to the scary effectiveness of Apple's propaganda, and then exposes the lie to the masses, can only be a good thing in the long term?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

2 year contract?

 

[dogmatique]

I think the most interesting thing, if not exciting, is the software development and applications that are going to be coming soon. There's no other phone which has had such attention, and therefore such interest in quality application development.

Symbian in it's many years has nothing like what will be available in six months on the iphone.

Remember this is still only a year since first launch, and yet its become one of the market leaders in it's field - and should really be upsetting Rim and Blackberry.

My boss has already emailed me tonight asking when he can ditch his Blackberry.

So with the hype, the price, and expectation of good implementation, Rim are in for a big challenge.

Especially as you'll no longer need any extra hardware to get push email, ie no Blackberry server, no licence fees, no extra Blackberry roaming charges as it's already built into your iPhone data contract.

The only thing they need to work out is roaming data charges on networks when you're abroad, but again with Apple, the established market is being pushed into action, and change.

The more mass market data devices like this that are taken up, the more the mobile networks will have to accomodate; just as the record labels were forced to reluctantly accomodate itunes.

- Before the threat of the iphone, there were very few unlimited data packages around - I can only remember T mobile's excellent web'n walk (or whatever it was called) and 3's largely ignored due to network coverage good deals.

As for the new iPhone, meh - it's now got the infrastructure with 3G and GPS to impliment stuff which Nokia and other leaders have been failing to do - provide workable applications which people will use. Which is much more important than a front facing camera.

 

[dogmatique]

2 year contract?

2 year contracts are still very common in the States (as was being charged for recieving calls up until recently - though long distance ie out of State you still are), and the push here is for similar, but they've only been able to force 18 month contracts for the last 6 months or so.

You'd have to be very desparate to sign a two year one in the UK.

 

[editor]

Remember this is still only a year since first launch, and yet its become one of the market leaders in it's field - and should really be upsetting Rim and Blackberry.

To be honest, I really don't see that as such a big achievement considering Apple's position as one of the biggest and richest companies on the planet with years of computer/software experience and vast technical and R&D resources. In fact, I would have been amazed if they had got it wrong.

Apart from the interface (which was admittedly superb) there was precious little real innovation in the original iPhone and even this latest version drags miles behind the feature set of many less hyped handsets.

And far from being 'upset', Blackberry have seen sales soar in the past quarter while Apple's market share (and sales) have diminished.

The iPhone may well end up as the definitive phone, helped along by their deep, deep pockets to tempt developers, but right now something like the Blackberry Bold seems a far superior product.

The more mass market data devices like this that are taken up, the more the mobile networks will have to accomodate; just as the record labels were forced to reluctantly accomodate itunes.

Hold on: Apple were the bad guys in this, not the good ones. They did their damnedest to restrict market choice and force punters into limited, expensive one carrier deals on long contracts. What they tried to foist on the public was bad for punters.

It was only because consumers weren't having it - and the competition from elsewhere - did they start to change their pricing structure.

 

[Kanda]

Judging by where I work and conversations with people in a similar position, I'd say there's a FUCKTON of people waiting for Activesync, only stumbling block is apps like Blomberg, they have to be ported too. Bloomberg aren't usualy slow either.

Integration with Exchange, no need for a BES server is going to be a MAJOR selling point and if they get it right, really fuck RIM.

Why should a company get a BES when it doesn't need to and keeps employees happy with iPhones.

 

[dogmatique]

What you say is true, but the only real killer app a Blackberry is desirable for is it's push email, business function.

Once you can do that without the awfullness of Windows Mobile, you're onto a winner - which Rim have been - in an open field for years.

Let's compare again once the iPhone's push email has had time to bed in a bit.

 

[editor]

Blackberry have a massive user base that completely dwarves Apple's. It's going to take more than a few minor upgrades on a keyboard-less phone to make big corporates start swapping over their mail systems and phones en masse.

 

[editor]

What you say is true, but the only real killer app a Blackberry is desirable for is it's push email, business function.

Once you can do that without the awfullness of Windows Mobile, you're onto a winner - which Rim have been - in an open field for years.

Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail

 

[dogmatique]

Hold on: Apple were the bad guys in this, not the good ones. They did their damnedest to restrict market choice and force punters into limited, expensive one carrier deals on long contracts. What they tried to foist on the public was bad for punters.

It was only because consumers weren't having it - and the competition from elsewhere - did they start to change their pricing structure.

Also true - and they seem to be learning their lessons - lower price, multiple suppliers (though not in the UK yet), it's a reciprical process that's still thrashing itself out, and I'd like to see the carriers showing a bit more balls, but it can only be a win for the consumer in the long run.

 

[Kanda]

Blackberry have a massive user base that completely dwarves Apple's. It's going to take more than a few minor upgrades on a keyboard-less phone to make big corporates start swapping over their mail systems and phones en masse.

No, it's not. Well, maybe it's industry related but it's the email push that is the killer, in my industry, if people want iPhones, the company will drop Blackberry and BES. Why have a costly BES server if you can have something that integrates directly with Exchange???

 

[dogmatique]

Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail

Very much known - but this is a mass market device, so it makes all the difference.

 

[Kanda]

Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail

No-one has EVER asked me (IT Manager) for a Palm though....

 

[Crispy]

to be fair to apple, when it comes to developers, it woos them with good APIs and support. there's an excellent 3 part article at arstechnica[/url whcih goes into detail on how they've made development for osx a pleasure - compared to the pain on windows.

I think we will see some exciting apps, but the iphone is still a walled garden and still missing some vital features

 

[dogmatique]

No, it's not. Well, maybe it's industry related but it's the email push that is the killer, in my industry, if people want iPhones, the company will drop Blackberry and BES. Why have a costly BES server if you can have something that integrates directly with Exchange???

Exactly. We only use Blackberry because that has been simply the best implimentation of push email, and the devices were way better than anything WinMobile because of the operating system.

Blackberries aren't cheap either, especially with roaming tariffs, so iPhone should be able to compete happily.

If I no longer have to worry about an extra server working properly, I'm also happier.

 

[Kanda]

I'm happy cos I've been holding off from taking a work Blackberry... I can now justify an(other) iPhone

We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.

 

[dogmatique]

I'm happy cos I've been holding off from taking a work Blackberry... I can now justify an(other) iPhone

We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.

More so if you're a small business without the investment of a BES.

 

[editor]

Very much known - but this is a mass market device, so it makes all the difference.

Just having the facility to do push email doesn't automatically guarantee that companies will all start shifting from the tried and trusted to a different system, no matter how stylish the iPhone is.

In the States, Palm has had an excellent push email facility since 2004 and back then they were major players, but RIM still went on to carve a niche for themselves. And back then the Treos were the hottest phones in town too.

I'm not saying that the iPhone won't eventually gain traction in the corporate market, but this notion of large corporations instantly abandoning their Blackberries en masse is a long way off. The iPhone's push email is new and untested. Big companies aren't going to rush to risk their precious data in the name of a pretty phone.

Also true - and they seem to be learning their lessons - lower price, multiple suppliers (though not in the UK yet), it's a reciprical process that's still thrashing itself out, and I'd like to see the carriers showing a bit more balls, but it can only be a win for the consumer in the long run.

But that'll be in spite of Apple, not because of them. If they'd bludgeoned their restrictive business model on UK consumers we'd all be worse off. Thank fuck they failed miserably - and that's thanks to the other networks/phone makers.

 

[editor]

We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.

Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!

 

[Kanda]

Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!

I'm not a fanboy, I just dislike the alternatives Costs? My company will pay now, why do I care?

 

[dogmatique]

Sorry, but that's irrelevant really in the grand scheme of things.

Actually, no: that's the most relevant point. Employee driven demand is extremely important.

 

[Kanda]

Actually, no: that's the most relevant point. Employee driven demand is extremely important.

Very! It's a perk.

Exchange Activesync untested?? erm.. ok...

 

[dogmatique]

Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!

I think he's saying that we're readily open for a better offer, not that he's a fanboy. Business offers are always generally poor, and the Blackberry has been particularly so as there has been so little competition.

So a popular device which can offer the average user something that they want with the apple brand and OS is going to be a very attractive option.

If the price is right, as noted.

 

[paolo]

Random brain dump...

A slightly underwhelming launch, because we knew so much of it already.

I'm not sure the mobile me thing is going to be particularly compelling to the majority. Doesn't seem to have any contact syncing relevance to regular web mail users. Photo integration is only with the 'walled garden', not the most popular service (flickr). I'm sure it will be slick, but for many people it's just too proprietary. You have to buy the whole Apple way of doing stuff to get the benefits. And pay extra too. So, meh on that one.

GPS... no word on battery life here, which is notable. I'm guessing that for a quick "where am I" it will be fine, but it won't be practical as turn by turn device, without a car power adaptor to keep it alive. GPS functionality could be one of those catalyst things though. API + GPS + great screen + touch... could make for some very neat apps. I think that one will be a 'grower'.

3G Battery life. Not quite as sorted as I'd hoped. It's 2-3 hours less browsing than the existing iPhone on EDGE (although much better than the N95, which was nearly useless for commute-length browsing. Battery dead for a round trip bus journey in Zone 1.). I could get nearly 7 hours browsing originally... now nearer 4, and it's not quite enough for me. It'll be less on the new one, albeit a much much better browsing experience.

(Side note about the iPhone having 'faster' 3G. In reality that is probably down to the faster rendering of Safari on ARM. Just as on the existing model, the EDGE browsing+rendering was not far short of other manufacturers 3G models. Browser rendering, surprisingly, does need a reasonable bit of horsepower.).

Push email isn't too important for me (or I suspect many other consumer users). 15 minute IMAP polling was the main step up, and we've got that.

No changes to core functionality though... the biggest for me being C&P. I guess we'll keep on waiting for that... been a bit long now though.

So, err, yeah s'okay I guess. I'm not quite frothing to upgrade yet, but maybe when I see the 3G browsing, maybe I'll take the plunge, depending on how the upgrade process/pricing works.

 

[Kanda]

If the price is right, as noted.

The price is VERY wrong for corporate use of Blackberry's at the moment, I'll run the sums tomorrow.

 

[editor]

I'm not a fanboy, I just dislike the alternatives Costs? My company will pay now, why do I care?

Sorry, I thought you were attempting to construct a serious economic argument there for a moment.

Actually, no: that's the most relevant point. Employee driven demand is extremely important.

Something tells me that security, pricing and technical support plays a rather bigger part, unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.