Alex Salmond accused (and then cleared) of sexual misconduct.

[Poot]

The majority of the jury were female.

Ah. So women were to blame. I see.

 

[DexterTCN]

Ah. So women were to blame. I see.

I'm sure you do. However you may need to change your optical prescritption to 'non-mental'.

 

[Spymaster]

I've only read the evidence against him, and know nothing of the machinations of Scottish politics, but why would so many women falsely accuse him?

He says the accusations were politically motivated.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I'm sure you do. However you may need to change your optical prescritption to 'non-mental'.

Wtf?!

 

[DexterTCN]

I've only read the evidence against him, and know nothing of the machinations of Scottish politics, but why would so many women falsely accuse him?
Genuine question

It is a good question. So you should ask why no-one here seems to be addressing it ir has done previously. But the machinations of Scottish politics that you mentioned, are all to do with it.

 

[Poot]

I'm sure you do. However you may need to change your optical prescritption to 'non-mental'.

Thanks. But I've had more experience of the specific subject being discussed than you will ever know, and your input is not needed afaic.

 

[DexterTCN]

I've only read the evidence against him, and know nothing of the machinations of Scottish politics, but why would so many women falsely accuse him?
Genuine question

Here you go...there's a few but I do like to post Wings. Read it then query other posters if you like, or don't if you don't. I don't bother.

An innocent man

Today a mostly-female jury drawn from the most Unionist city in Scotland and directed by a female judge delivered the only verdict it was credibly possible to reach on the (total absence of) eviden…

wingsoverscotland.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm sure you do. However you may need to change your optical prescritption to 'non-mental'.

Why are you being such a dick?

Actually, forget that, no need to answer, I remember enough from your posting history to know.

 

[belboid]

Here you go...there's a few but I do like to post Wings. Read it then query other posters if you like, or don't if you don't. I don't bother.

An innocent man

Today a mostly-female jury drawn from the most Unionist city in Scotland and directed by a female judge delivered the only verdict it was credibly possible to reach on the (total absence of) eviden…

wingsoverscotland.com

told you

while certain knobs are already going the whole trial was an anti-SNP disgrace

 

[DexterTCN]

Thanks. But I've had more experience of the specific subject being discussed than you will ever know, and your input is not needed afaic.

Not sure where you're coming from, this man is proved innocent in court. If you're implying the kind of moral superiority that I think you are...we're done.

 

[belboid]

Of course Scots rape law is notoriously bad as well. Corroboration is required. For rape. Hence it has even worse conviction rates than England and Wales.

 

[Wilf]

Fuck off dexter.

 

[andysays]

There's certainly an interesting contrast between DexterTCN's attitude towards women displayed here, and his claimed role as defender of women on the TERF thread...

 

[DexterTCN]

If anyone wants to get involved, here's the (current) twitter thread.

 

[spanglechick]

I’m surprised so many posters here seem to think there’s been no miscarriage of justice.
The testimonies were highly credible, and the fact that Salmond used to be a very powerful politician with a great deal of feeling against him from the “establishment” doesn’t mean that he isn’t one of the significant minority of men who assault and harass subordinates in the workplace.

 

[DexterTCN]

I’m surprised so many posters here seem to think there’s been no miscarriage of justice.
The testimonies were highly credible, and the fact that Salmond used to be a very powerful politician with a great deal of feeling against him from the “establishment” doesn’t mean that he isn’t one of the significant minority of men who assault and harass subordinates in the workplace.

Well thanks for your opinion...looks like the jury, the majority of whom were women, think you're talking a load of shite. And they actually heard and saw every bit of evidence presented and heard from everyone. Unlike you.

Could you explain the discrepancy...starting with your 'highly credible' statement and where you got it when the jury did not? What made them highly credible?

 

[Poot]

Alleged assault 'led to ban on Alex Salmond working alone with women'

 

[spanglechick]

Well thanks for your opinion...looks like the jury, the majority of whom were women, think you're talking a load of shite. And they actually heard and saw every bit of evidence presented and heard from everyone. Unlike you.

Could you explain the discrepancy...starting with your 'highly credible' statement and where you got it when the jury did not? What made them highly credible?

Oh fuck off. You have zero credibility on this site. Nobody else debates with you and I’m not about to start.

 

[Spymaster]

Oh fuck off. You have zero credibility on this site. Nobody else debates with you and I’m not about to start.

He has a point though. The man has been found not guilty and if even half of what's in that Wings Over Scotland piece linked to is correct much of the evidence was far from credible. If every time someone's cleared of sexual crimes people are going to get up in arms about it, what's the point of having the trials?

 

[belboid]

He has a point though. The man has been found not guilty and if even half of what's in that Wings Over Scotland piece linked to is correct much of the evidence was far from credible. If every time someone's cleared of sexual crimes people are going to get up in arms about it, what's the point of having the trials?

As mentioned above, Scots law has a higher standard of proof than is demanded in English and Welsh cases. Corroboration is an absurd requirement for such charges, it's a disgrace. We all know how shitty the conviction rates for such offences are, so when people do get found not guilty (or 'not proven' as they also found him), it is hardly surprising that people go 'there goes another one'

 

[DexterTCN]

Alleged assault 'led to ban on Alex Salmond working alone with women'

Yup...that was an allegation made by a prosecution witness that was not backed up by any evidence or any person.

You understand that? It was an allegation by a prosecution witness and it was not believed by the jury. /taps Poot on the head

In your wolrd headlines from newspapers may be facts though but fortunately not in the Scottish legal system. I've posted a factual link, best you toddle off and read it. Or post something factual. Or just call me something so I can file you under half-wit and ignore you

Here's a breakdown of one of the trial days from an ex UK ambassador (who is pro-independence). Your Man Finally in the Public Gallery. The Alex Salmond Trial Day 8 - Craig Murray

 

[Poot]

Yup...that was an allegation made by a prosecution witness that was not backed up by any evidence or any person.

You understand that? It was an allegation by a prosecution witness and it was not believed by the jury. /taps Poot on the head

In your wolrd headlines from newspapers may be facts though but fortunately not in the Scottish legal system. I've posted a factual link, best you toddle off and read it. Or post something factual. Or just call me something so I can file you under half-wit and ignore you

Here's a breakdown of one of the trial days from an ex UK ambassador (who is pro-independence). Your Man Finally in the Public Gallery. The Alex Salmond Trial Day 8 - Craig Murray

Are you Alex Salmond?

 

[DexterTCN]

Are you Alex Salmond?

Are you a judge?

 

[Poot]

 

[spanglechick]

He has a point though. The man has been found not guilty and if even half of what's in that Wings Over Scotland piece linked to is correct much of the evidence was far from credible. If every time someone's cleared of sexual crimes people are going to get up in arms about it, what's the point of having the trials?

I’ve just tried to read that piece but it’s overblown and emotive - just irritating. Is there any professional broadsheet-style journalism that helps to explain the verdict?

Because things like it becoming policy (albeit presumably unofficial policy) not to allow female civil servants to be left alone with AS after the incident described in the Guardian piece... its easy enough to disprove a claim like that, and afaik, it wasn’t disproved - and is therefore pretty weighty.

 

[Spymaster]

As mentioned above, Scots law has a higher standard of proof than is demanded in English and Welsh cases. Corroboration is an absurd requirement for such charges, it's a disgrace. We all know how shitty the conviction rates for such offences are, so when people do get found not guilty (or 'not proven' as they also found him), it is hardly surprising that people go 'there goes another one'

Sure, but it wasn't just corroboration about the attempted rape but it seems that nobody could even corroborate that the alledged victim was even at the event where the incident is said to have occurred. Rape/attempted rape being difficult to prove is one thing but what would you do to change that?

 

[spanglechick]

Sure, but it wasn't just corroboration about the attempted rape but it seems that nobody could even corroborate that the alledged victim was even at the event where the incident is said to have occurred. Rape/attempted rape being difficult to prove is one thing but what would you do to change that?

There are limits tbh.
But it’s statistically an odd choice to categorically say that a not guilty verdict proves innocence, or further, that the accusers were lying.

 

[Spymaster]

I’ve just tried to read that piece but it’s overblown and emotive - just irritating. Is there any professional broadsheet-style journalism that helps to explain the verdict?

Because things like it becoming policy (albeit presumably unofficial policy) not to allow female civil servants to be left alone with AS after the incident described in the Guardian piece... its easy enough to disprove a claim like that, and afaik, it wasn’t disproved - and is therefore pretty weighty.

Not sure. I had a look earlier but couldn't find much so I guess it'll come out over the coming days and weeks but we do know that the jury, who heard all the evidence have found him not guilty. To overturn that we either need to believe that they were incompetent or that the evidence was unconvincing.

 

[DexterTCN]

There are limits tbh.
But it’s statistically an odd choice to categorically say that a not guilty verdict proves innocence, or further, that the accusers were lying.

And now you'll provide those statistics.

 

[Spymaster]

But it’s statistically an odd choice to categorically say that a not guilty verdict proves innocence ...

But that IS exactly what the law says. Legally he is innocent. Again, if we don't believe in that we should just skip the trial and go straight to sentencing.