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Airlander

A380

A380

How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Posted now because it will be coming out of the hangers at Cardington this summer; perhaps very soon. I am a member of the club and have put in an (small) amount of money via the crowd funding scheme. Will this time round be the time for airships, or not?

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I can't wait to see it in the sky.



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Fuck yeah airships.

Apparently the Airlander 10 uses Helium as a lifting gas. All well and good from a purely engineering standpoint, but isn't that stuff rare/expensive?

I know Hydrogen has had a bad rap as a lifting gas since the Hindenburg disaster, but wasn't that accident exacerbated by the dirigible's skin being coated in some kind of highly-flammable mixture?
 
NoXion said:
Fuck yeah airships.

Apparently the Airlander 10 uses Helium as a lifting gas. All well and good from a purely engineering standpoint, but isn't that stuff rare/expensive?

I know Hydrogen has had a bad rap as a lifting gas since the Hindenburg disaster, but wasn't that accident exacerbated by the dirigible's skin being coated in some kind of highly-flammable mixture?
Click to expand...
Helium is the second most abundant element in the universe.
It's also inert.

And, Im sure the airlander enginners will be adhering to the latest, fire retarding material standards set out by the ffa/easa
 
pocketscience said:
Helium is the second most abundant element in the universe.
It's also inert.

And, Im sure the airlander enginners will be adhering to the latest, fire retarding material standards set out by the ffa/easa
Click to expand...

Helium is common in the universe, but it ain't common right here on Earth. Since we don't have any Helium-gathering infrastructure orbiting Saturn, Helium will until then remain a byproduct of natural gas extraction. Which is rather limited as a resource.

Fire resistance is important, but especially so if you're going to be using Hydrogen as a lifting gas.
 
NoXion said:
Fuck yeah airships.

Apparently the Airlander 10 uses Helium as a lifting gas. All well and good from a purely engineering standpoint, but isn't that stuff rare/expensive?

I know Hydrogen has had a bad rap as a lifting gas since the Hindenburg disaster, but wasn't that accident exacerbated by the dirigible's skin being coated in some kind of highly-flammable mixture?
Click to expand...

Yep. Doping the airbag's skin with a cellulose-based varnish turned out to not be so good an idea...
 
NoXion said:
Helium is common in the universe, but it ain't common right here on Earth. Since we don't have any Helium-gathering infrastructure orbiting Saturn, Helium will until then remain a byproduct of natural gas extraction. Which is rather limited as a resource.

Fire resistance is important, but especially so if you're going to be using Hydrogen as a lifting gas.
Click to expand...
Collecting resources form space? Bring it on!
'cause by the time all the natural gas has run out on earth, airships will be the least of our worries.
... and even then - not that it doesn't mean we cant preserve the quantities of helium assigned for use in airships for anytime short of an eternity. If they're designed with sufficient airtight sealing, the Airlanders just act as working helium storage units.
 
NoXion said:
Helium is common in the universe, but it ain't common right here on Earth. Since we don't have any Helium-gathering infrastructure orbiting Saturn, Helium will until then remain a byproduct of natural gas extraction. Which is rather limited as a resource.

Fire resistance is important, but especially so if you're going to be using Hydrogen as a lifting gas.
Click to expand...

If fusion reactors happen problem solved, otherwise we will squander a resource essential for deep sea diving and MRI scans on party ballons within 20years
 
Spymaster said:
It's also extremely expensive.

It costs £50,000 to fill the type of airship that takes tourists up sightseeing over London.
Click to expand...
But it's not like it's being used for fuel. It's a sustainable model.
Relative to the cost of AvGas to create lift for conventional airliners, you get more bang for your buck (or no bang, as the case may be :)).
 
pocketscience said:
Collecting resources form space? Bring it on!
'cause by the time all the natural gas has run out on earth, airships will be the least of our worries.
... and even then - not that it doesn't mean we cant preserve the quantities of helium assigned for use in airships for anytime short of an eternity. If they're designed with sufficient airtight sealing, the Airlanders just act as working helium storage units.
Click to expand...

Sure, the helium isn't consumed if it's being used as a lifting gas. But large amounts are required, especially if you're building fleets of airships rather than just a few, and it's not as if you can use it for anything else in the meanwhile.

I think it would be prudent not to overestimate how much helium we can get from sources on Earth, at least until we get an established system of extraterrestrial resource extraction in place. Who knows long that will take.
 
NoXion said:
I know Hydrogen has had a bad rap as a lifting gas since the Hindenburg disaster, but wasn't that accident exacerbated by the dirigible's skin being coated in some kind of highly-flammable mixture?
Click to expand...

ViolentPanda said:
Yep. Doping the airbag's skin with a cellulose-based varnish turned out to not be so good an idea...
Click to expand...

The paint/dope causing the fire has been considered myth for some years.

The Hindenburg bags were coated with an aluminium compound because hydrogen molecules are so small they can diffuse through most materials and deflate the balloon, but it wasn't flammable.

It was the lifting gas that blew up.
 
Spymaster said:
The paint/dope causing the fire has been considered myth for some years.

The Hindenburg bags were coated with an aluminium compound because hydrogen molecules are so small they can diffuse through most materials and deflate the balloon, but it wasn't flammable.

It was the lifting gas that blew up.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, although I'm not convinced that hydrogen should be abandoned as a lifting gas in spite of this. The risks could be reduced to acceptable levels through the application of inventive engineering, and still come out cheaper than using Helium in the end.
 
Hydrogen's still legal in the US for certain types of airships. I bet anyone who's in one would shit themselves in a thunderstorm though.
 
Of course you can do it without hydrogen or helium. There is a small but expanding range of hot air airships...

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In my opinion that negates one of the big pluses that make airships interesting in the first place, which is the fact that they can stay aloft with very little energy input. They're just fancy-shaped hot air balloons, and nobody uses those things for anything more serious than sight-seeing. Mere toys.
 
Spymaster said:
It's also extremely expensive.

It costs £50,000 to fill the type of airship that takes tourists up sightseeing over London.
Click to expand...
Just for a sense of perspective, how much do you reckon it costs to fill the tanks of an A380 with Jet A-1 kerosene?



.... Then the accumulated costs throughout its lifespan
 
NoXion said:
In my opinion that negates one of the big pluses that make airships interesting in the first place, which is the fact that they can stay aloft with very little energy input. They're just fancy-shaped hot air balloons, and nobody uses those things for anything more serious than sight-seeing. Mere toys.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, just toys. But what a toy to play with!
 
Spymaster said:
Hydrogen's still legal in the US for certain types of airships. I bet anyone who's in one would shit themselves in a thunderstorm though.
Click to expand...
In the 19th century people used to use town gas (coal gas) from their local gas works! Half the lifting capacity of hydrogen/helium but much cheaper and redilly availible. Victorians, brave or mad?
 
"The mooring mast has been put up. Airlander is fully fuelled now. Don't know if that's a test or because they will be bringing it out soon.
 
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