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Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

Evans has already had one appeal rejected. Perhaps that's 'darkly authoritarian' too? Maybe we should let him have a good old kick about for a million a week after all until he's inevitably cleared, miscarriage of justice that he is.
 
ferrelhadley said:
You are hounding someone because they believe themselves innocent and entitled to try to make an appeal. Very darkly authoritarian. Once the court has spoken it becomes immoral to challenge the courts version of events and they must be barred from their profession for their opinion.
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Are you certain he believes himself innocent? Go on, spit it out - you think that his appeal should be read as meaning he genuinely believes himself innocent don't you?
 
there will be no follow up post to feralhadleys latest brainfart. Never responds to counters, just mumbles 'marxists..idiocy..hypocrite' then moves on. Don't know what happened there really, was once a sunny poster and informative with it.
 
ferrelhadley said:
So basically if someone has a different recollection of events than the court ruling they should never publicly air them and accept they have no right to an appeal. In spite of abundant evidence that people can legitimately have very different recollections of the same events. This is why we have courts, to judge between accounts, and those judgements can (and have) been wrong.

If you believed people convicted of a sex offence should be barred from playing professional football, that would be a fair opinion to hold. But that is not what you all are seething about.

You are hounding someone because they believe themselves innocent and entitled to try to make an appeal. Very darkly authoritarian. Once the court has spoken it becomes immoral to challenge the courts version of events and they must be barred from their profession for their opinion.
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The point is that many of his supporters are arguing that he has a right to a career as a professional footballer (which would make him a role model for young men) based upon the notion of rehabilitation. However, the failure to accept he's done anything wrong is a bar to rehabilitation in any meaningful sense. If he believes he's innocent, that's fine; I absolutely support his right to appeal. But you cant have it both ways, either he's innocent or he's a rehabilitated criminal. As things stand, he's an unrehabilitated convicted rapist.
 
Can't say I'm a great fan of the 'role model' argument (against him getting back into football), largely because the idea that certain groups are role models is anyway a bit weird [not aimed at you athos, just shootin the breeze]. I'm just happy an unrepentant millionaire-ish rapist is getting a bit of shit in his life, particularly after the hounding of his victim. Not particularly high minded, but fuck him.
 
Wilf said:
Can't say I'm a great fan of the 'role model' argument (against him getting back into football), largely because the idea that certain groups are role models is anyway a bit weird [not aimed at you athos, just shootin the breeze]. I'm just happy an unrepentant millionaire-ish rapist is getting a bit of shit in his life, particularly after the hounding of his victim. Not particularly high minded, but fuck him.
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I guess role model is shorthand for something more complex than that; something which goes to the message we, as a society, are sending out to young men and women about rape.
 
Wilf said:
Can't say I'm a great fan of the 'role model' argument (against him getting back into football), largely because the idea that certain groups are role models is anyway a bit weird [not aimed at you athos, just shootin the breeze]. I'm just happy an unrepentant millionaire-ish rapist is getting a bit of shit in his life, particularly after the hounding of his victim. Not particularly high minded, but fuck him.
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There's lots of professions that you'd be barred from by account of you being a convicted sex offender. Working with kids is one of them. Surely footballers regularly do whether it be contact with minors through the club's junior teams or any number of visiting schools/fans etc.
 
Wilf said:
Can't say I'm a great fan of the 'role model' argument (against him getting back into football), largely because the idea that certain groups are role models is anyway a bit weird
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And the idea that certain groups* "need" positive role models is fucking patronising too.


*minority ethnicities, working class youths, women etc etc
 
All of these chats are moot. The pertinent FACT is this horrible cunt will be greeted with " SEX CASE SEX CASE HANG HIM HANG HIM HANG HIM!" whenever the man plays. Trust the working class to deal with it. He will fuck off crying and he will be an excellent "role model", one who every kid knows not to emulate.
 
Citizen66 said:
There's lots of professions that you'd be barred from by account of you being a convicted sex offender. Working with kids is one of them. Surely footballers regularly do whether it be contact with minors through the club's junior teams or any number of visiting schools/fans etc.
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Yeah, certainly, there's the whole CRB thing, you're right - I'm not sure how anybody on the sex offenders register can be part of an organisation that engages with kids at any level. To be honest, I don't even object to the 'role model' argument, it's just I have a thing about the term. It's one of those phrases you're as likely to hear the mail coming out with as somebody more honourably... but anyway, I won't derail. I'm just happy to acknowledge my own schadenfreude on this. :)

edit - but co-op said it better.
 
co-op said:
And the idea that certain groups* "need" positive role models is fucking patronising too.


*minority ethnicities, working class youths, women etc etc
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Young people?

Like it or not, footballers are role models and clubs have to accept that, they probably make money out of it.
 
Yeah, I think the whole 'role model' thing is daft. Like anyone ever took more notice of a footballer's behaviour than that of their own relatives, guardians etc etc
 
8115 said:
Young people?

Like it or not, footballers are role models and clubs have to accept that, they probably make money out of it.
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As in 'John Terry shouldn't be a racist because he's a role model'? What about 'John Terry shouldn't be a racist', doesn't that cover it?
 
Wilf said:
As in 'John Terry shouldn't be a racist because he's a role model'? What about 'John Terry shouldn't be a racist', doesn't that cover it?
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As in, even more reason not to employ a convicted rapist because kids look up to footballers.
 
Or, maybe John Terry shouldn't be captain of Chelsea because of his past behaviour, role model etc. I don't think its very controversial.
 
The only thing about my favourite footballers that I wanted to emulate as a kid was their performances. Even before I was out of short trousers I was aware that good footballers could be utter nobheads in other areas of life. The whole role model thing is middle aged people and tabloid editors projecting their values. It's patronising guff
 
Athos said:
I guess role model is shorthand for something more complex than that; something which goes to the message we, as a society, are sending out to young men and women about rape.
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Agreed. It's not about being a 'role model' per se, but about the wider issue of what it says about our general outlook towards rape and the power relationships (of all types) between men and women, what it says about how far capital and other types of power will go to protect certain things and at whose expense, etc. It's a messy tangle of issues at play, not just as simple as 'man raped woman, kids will think that's okay if he is allowed to play again' - although there is an element of that that cannot be ignored, since we only have to look at his 'supporters' and their vile, disgusting behaviour towards the victim - this all plays into a far wider discussion we need to have and we have been having that at the very basic end of it comes down to whose fucking side are we on, those who wield power in sometimes violent and/or sexual ways and are protected by various systems, or those who are victims of power imbalances and who are continually silenced and further abused as a result?

Or something.
 
8115 said:
Young people?

Like it or not, footballers are role models and clubs have to accept that, they probably make money out of it.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is such a group as "young people" in any meaningful sense. Most of them don't give a shit about football anyway.

The point is that the idea of "positive role models" and the "need" for them presupposes that most of the actual role models that are 'modelling" behaviour to target groups are negative role models, i.e their own families, their own peers, 'ordinary people'. I never hear about the need for bankers' children to have positive role models, it's assumed that their social cohorts are already "positive" enough.
 
co-op said:
I don't think there is such a group as "young people" in any meaningful sense. Most of them don't give a shit about football anyway.

The point is that the idea of "positive role models" and the "need" for them presupposes that most of the actual role models that are 'modelling" behaviour to target groups are negative role models, i.e their own families, their own peers, 'ordinary people'. I never hear about the need for bankers' children to have positive role models, it's assumed that their social cohorts are already "positive" enough.
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Also, when Mo Farah gets held up as a 'positive role model' for young British muslims. As though they're in desperate need of someone to show them some moral fibre. It's insulting bullshit
 
goldenecitrone said:
What a great signature to have. He must be sad cheques are going out of fashion. Take my money, you...
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o/t, but the register of births and deaths in Brighton used to be a 'William Anker', a friend at college (born 1970 I think) had it on his birth certificate and would proudly show it to people.
 
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