A question about punctuation

[editor]

So, I'm in the habit of punctuating a sentence like this:

"Blah blah blah," said Mr Blah.
"I can't be blahhed with that," responded Mrs Blah, who added, "No blah is worth the price of a double blah."

I've always added the comma/full stop inside the quotation marks, and I'm sure that's how I was taught, but now I noticed that the BBC seem to mix and match:

Bit I think I've realised now that when its the end of a sentence, the full stop goes outside:

"I can't be blahhed with that," responded Mrs Blah, who added, "No blah is worth the price of a double blah". <---

Is that correct? Or can it be in both places?

The BBC seems to mix and match here:

"We would like to reassure customers that there is no need to worry about buying more than they need," a spokesperson said.

The British Retail Consortium said supply chains were good and has urged consumers to "shop as you normally would".

Director of food and sustainability at the BRC, Andrew Opie, said: "Supply chains are stronger than ever before and we do not anticipate any issues in the availability of food or other goods under a future lockdown.

"Nonetheless, we urge consumers to be considerate of others."

Aldi boss Giles Hurley has written to customers saying: "There is no need to buy more than you usually would. I would like to reassure you that our stores remain fully stocked and ask that you continue to shop considerately."

Tesco joins Morrisons to limit sales of some items

Limits on loo roll and flour are back as supermarkets act to prevent a repeat of March's panic buying.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[danny la rouge]

can it be in both places

No, it should be one or the other. Mixing is wrong.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I've always used the same method you do, full-stop at end of speech goes inside the quotes. My copy of Strunk & White says the same - punctuation within a sentence that involves quotation marks goes inside the quotation, not outside:

'Editor,' 'danny la rouge,' and 'Buddy Bradley' all agreed that "punctuation goes inside quotes."

I think the BBC are just getting sloppy about copy-editing their articles before hitting publish.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

The Americans do it inside, we do it outside, as far as I understand.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not as bad as the guardian, said the actress

 

[danny la rouge]

The Americans do it inside, we do it outside, as far as I understand.

Despite the weather here.

 

[2hats]

Consult your organisation's style guide . Whatever it states, it won't suggest mixing them.

(I'm suggesting it doesn't matter, just be consistent).

 

[platinumsage]

I don't see any need for a comma in your examples, I think its soft pause effect is provided for by the close quote mark.

 

[belboid]

No, it should be one or the other. Mixing is wrong.

No, it depends on context.

From the guardian style guide:

If the sentence is logically and grammatically complete without the information contained within the parentheses (round brackets), the punctuation stays outside the brackets. (A complete sentence that stands alone in parentheses starts with a capital letter and ends with a stop.)

 

[danny la rouge]

No, it depends on context.

From the guardian style guide:

If the sentence is logically and grammatically complete without the information contained within the parentheses (round brackets), the punctuation stays outside the brackets. (A complete sentence that stands alone in parentheses starts with a capital letter and ends with a stop.)

Actuall’y; I agree with Tha.t

 

[belboid]

More of a concern is why you included an upper case N in the second clause of Mrs Blah’s comment, when the first clause ended with a comma.

 

[smmudge]

From my understanding it's inside when you're using double quotes (for full sentences, speech or longer quotes) and outside when you're using single quotes (short terms, words etc).

So in the second op excerpt where the full stop is on the outside, is an error in using double quotes where single quotes are more appropriate, rather than punctuation in the wrong place.

 

[seeformiles]

I think your punctuation is fine. The BBC (& other news sites) appears to be increasingly delegating the production of on line content to their work-experience interns. I think it’s sloppy practice and makes them look very unprofessional but maybe I’m wrong and perhaps such bloopers are the work of longer serving staff who really should know better?

I suspect anyone’s grasp of spelling, punctuation and grammar is connected to do with the prevailing educational ethos during their formative years. I have one friend who is frustrated at her dreadful written language skills and lays it squarely at the feet of some of her teachers who felt that spelling and grammar took second place to self expression. She works as a lecturer, is very intelligent with excellent verbal skills and no signs of dyslexia but is nonetheless embarrassed by her written work as she feels it undermines her profile among other students and staff.

 

[maomao]

The one where the full stop comes after is still correct because it's not directly quoted speech. The sentence doesn't need quotes, it would have been better if they'd just changed 'you' to 'they'.

 

[mhendo]

No, it should be one or the other. Mixing is wrong.

Actually, according to the BBC Style Guide, the rule changes depending on the nature of the quoted material:

With complete sentences, the closing quotation marks go after the full stop (eg: Mr Franklin said: "This is a farce."). When quoting a single word or phrase, the quotation marks go before the full stop (eg: Mr Franklin called the episode "a farce".).

I miust admit, this rule is new to me. It also appears that the BBC didn't properly follow its own style guide in the section quoted by the OP.

My experience, having lived in the UK, Australia, Canada, and now the U.S., is that Yu_Gi_Oh's observation is generally correct:

The Americans do it inside, we do it outside, as far as I understand.

We always placed commas and full stops outside the quotation marks when I was at uni in Australia (where we generally followed British rules), and that was the required style. Here in the US, punctuation always goes inside the quotation marks, with the exception of colons, semi-colons, and dashes. That's confirmed by my Chicago Manual of Style, which is pretty much the standard-setter in America.

 

[belboid]

Actually, according to the BBC Style Guide, the rule changes depending on the nature of the quoted material:

I miust admit, this rule is new to me. It also appears that the BBC didn't properly follow its own style guide in the section quoted by the OP.

My experience, having lived in the UK, Australia, Canada, and now the U.S., is that Yu_Gi_Oh's observation is generally correct:

We always placed commas and full stops outside the quotation marks when I was at uni in Australia (where we generally followed British rules), and that was the required style. Here in the US, punctuation always goes inside the quotation marks, with the exception of colons, semi-colons, and dashes. That's confirmed by my Chicago Manual of Style, which is pretty much the standard-setter in America.

Papers tend to use the Associated Press Stylebook.

 

[JimW]

I agree with the BBC in mhendo's post and it's what I do in my texts. Not sure about the US/UK divide either, always punctuated inside the quotation marks when it's a full sentence.

 

[eoin_k]

According to MLA, MHRA and Oxford Style guides, it depends on context. Generally, keep the final punctuation outside the quote marks, but place them on the inside if it's a full sentence.

 

[mhendo]

Papers tend to use the Associated Press Stylebook.

True enough. I'm in academia, in history, where Chicago rules.

 

[two sheds]

Fowler's Modern English Usage (reprinted 1978):

"Questions of order between inverted commas and stops are much debated and writer's personal preference often conflicts with the style rules of editors and publishers. There are two schools of thought, which might be called the conventional and the logical.

The conventional prefers to put stops within the inverted commas, if it can be done without ambiguity, on the ground that this has a more pleasing appearance. The logical punctuates according to sense, and puts them outside except when they actually form part of the quotation. "

Goes on to give examples.

 

[spanglechick]

I was taught that with quotations, as for brackets, you include the full stop inside if what you are enclosing/quoting would have a full stop because it is a complete sentence, but if it is a sentence fragment the full stop goes outside the quote mark/bracket.

 

[D'wards]

Today I read that "its" should never have a possessive apostrophe.

Is that true? I read it on Instagram

 

[two sheds]

it's true that

mind you having said that, it's not a possessive apostrophe

 

[spanglechick]

Today I read that "its" should never have a possessive apostrophe.

Is that true? I read it on Instagram

Yes. Pronouns don’t get possessive apostrophes. Hers. Its.

This conveniently makes “its” (belonging to it) distinct from “it’s” (it is), when written down.

Something similar happens with “whose” and “who’s”.

 

[D'wards]

I'm of the generation who were never taught grammar at school, for some stoopid reason.
My written English isn't too bad but I've never got the hang of all the verb, noun, adjunctive etc business.
I have tried to teach myself a couple of times but it never goes in.

 

[D'wards]

Do folks on here stick to the one to ten in words, 11 and up in numbers?

I do and have to write things at work that contain numbers, but I notice not many colleagues stick to this

 

[two sheds]

yes I generally do

 

[weltweit]

I'm of the generation who were never taught grammar at school, for some stoopid reason.
My written English isn't too bad but I've never got the hang of all the verb, noun, adjunctive etc business.
I have tried to teach myself a couple of times but it never goes in.

I am the same. I find it quite an issue though when trying to learn another language.

 

[weltweit]

Do folks on here stick to the one to ten in words, 11 and up in numbers?
..

Never heard of that rule ..

 

[two sheds]

avoid semicolons, keep commas to the minimum for understanding, colon introduces a list or something relevant to what you're saying, keep sentences short but mixed short/medium length errrm ...