Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

[8den]

How hard is it to say , the bloke was a musical genius, who produced some brilliant memorable stuff . But as a bloke he was a bit of a cunt who took advantage of young kids . As in fucked them . And had there been any justice he'd have gone to jail .

Let's leave aside a lot of things here. You have evidence that there were more girls than Maddox?

 

[Casually Red]

How can I make it clearer? Thora asked you a question:



You responded:



What on earth difference does that make? Oh, he was a rock star and she was going to lots of parties with rock stars, so getting a child high on drugs and fucking them is fine?

A 13 year old child . 8dens telling fibs again . Lori Maddox was 13 years old when Bowie got at her . 8den is actually justifying grown men drugging and fucking 13 year old kids .

He just did that, lots of times . Might be time for me to name him after another well known broadcaster .

 

[8den]

A 13 year old child . 8dens telling fibs again . Lori Maddox was 13 years old when Bowie got at her . 8den is actually justifying grown men drugging and fucking 13 year old kids .

He just did that, lots of times . Might be time for me to name him after another well known broadcaster .

Okay. So you can't name any other women?

I merely ask because many posters have eluded to it, but 18 plus pages later here we are with just the one.

 

[Casually Red]

Let's leave aside a lot of things here. You have evidence that there were more girls than Maddox?

No 8den let's not leave aside a lot of things. The things we won't leave aside is she was 13 when Bowie..whose music I truly admire...drugged and fucked that 13 year old child .
Nor will we leave aside you thinking that's ticketyboo behaviour for any grown adult . Nor will we leave aside you deliberately lying about her age in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable .

I'd really advise you to drop this one . In the past I've made a cunt of myself sticking up for Elvis and John Peel . I was in denial because I really admired both of them over their contribution to music. Later I had a word with myself and realised despite that they were still exploiting kids for their own twisted gratification . And that was pretty despicable behaviour for grown men . Noncery actually .

And I'm not going to meet them in heaven someday and they'll go " thanks for that mate " . So why bother making a cunt out of yourself over this ? a creepy sounding one every time you try and justify the unjustifiable .

It's very very wrong to drug and fuck 13 year old kids . As a grown man you should instinctively know this . I did but I buried that instinct while defending 2 famous geezers far too dead to give a toss. And I really, truly and honestly regret that now.

 

[Casually Red]

Okay. So you can't name any other women?

I merely ask because many posters have eluded to it, but 18 plus pages later here we are with just the one.

Well plainly the phrase " fuck one sheep " means nothing to you . If he liked children that young there were probably more . And even if he didn't fuck more of them, he still liked children that young. Which is why he drugged and fucked lori Maddox when she was 13 years old .

 

[Casually Red]

Okay. So you can't name any other women?

.

Children 8den. A 13 year old is a child, not a woman .

For fucks sake man . Have a serious word with yourself .

 

[8den]

Children 8den. A 13 year old is a child, not a woman .

For fucks sake man . Have a serious word with yourself .

If they were teenagers in the 1970s they'd be women now.

 

[8den]

Well plainly the phrase " fuck one sheep " means nothing to you . If he liked children that young there were probably more . And even if he didn't fuck more of them, he still liked children that young. Which is why he drugged and fucked lori Maddox when she was 13 years old .

So we've gone from a definite positive a handful of post Ago to "probably"

 

[Casually Red]

If they were teenagers in the 1970s they'd be women now.

So then your question should be are there any more grown women now who've come forward and admitted Bowie fucked them when they were kids ?

Not yet. So far just the one has admitted Bowie drugged and fucked her when she was a child of 13 .


You seem determined to dig your own hole on this one. My final bit of advice to you is there is no win here . It's all lose. Either way .

 

[Casually Red]

So we've gone from a definite positive a handful of post Ago to "probably"

No 8den we've gone to a bit of your psyche and moral compass that I really wish..for your sake..we hadn't .

 

[1927]

Whats happened until innocent until proven guilty? I've no doubt that he may have slept with underage girls (and possibly boys too), but there is a legal framework in place where they can report it. Yet as far as I know there have never been any investigations into Bowies conduct, and bringing a bunch of unfounded allegations up in an RIP thread seems a bit of a cunts trick to be totally honest.

That said, its a conversation that does need to be have, especially in light of the ongoing probes, but there's a time and a place, and an RIP thread, is not it, especially as there's been no specific public allegation against him.

Innocent unless proven guilty? I don't recall Savile's trial!

 

[emanymton]

a fairly hands-off approach to teaching about sexual behaviour in educational settings.

I should hope so too!

 

[DaveCinzano]

not done the maths yet, still trying to get my bellend kid to bed

Be sure to check under the bed for pop icons.

 

[Sweet FA]

Theres a Freak Brothers strip about a (IIRC) 14 year old girl who runs away from home (telling her parents to get bent) and all the freaky shit she gets up to...

I remember that - it seemed fucked up when I read it 20 odd years ago. She gets taken in by a biker gang at one point.

 

[felixthecat]

Fair enough like, and I'm not saying you should feel like damaged by it or owt. I wouldn't even think there was anything at all dodgy about it if they were only a couple of years older. But while you might have had a great time etc and there's nothing wrong with that, in my head I place serious question marks over men in their '20's or older who are interested in girls that young. That might be unfair but you won't change my mind.

I'd also add that there is a world of difference between being aged 13 and being aged 16.

I wasn't aiming to change your mind. The bloke in question must have been knocking on 30 at the time btw.
I was just trying to put it forward the point of that girl really - not saying its right more just that the waters around the sexuality of teenage girls are somewhat murky.

 

[existentialist]

I wasn't aiming to change your mind. The bloke in question must have been knocking on 30 at the time btw.
I was just trying to put it forward the point of that girl really - not saying its right more just that the waters around the sexuality of teenager girls are somewhat murky.

I think the problem with the "ALL FUCKED UP" mindset is that it generalises to such an extent that the actual lived experiences of the people involved are lost. Even if it is "all fucked up", it's fairly appalling to see the reaction when people like you relate those actual experiences and are told, in essence, that your perception of it is wrong or invalid.

I'm not even sure that it's that the waters are "murky" when it comes to the sexuality of teenage girls, just that they are not this kind of Victorian-angel pure that our culture and popular preconception like to paint them as being - the waters aren't crystal clear, for sure, but they're also complex, with ripples and eddies that aren't obvious. And, when such an aspect is so grossly misrepresented, the effect is to push everything that doesn't conform to the simplistic stereotypes into the shadows, where the potential for harm becomes much, much greater, because it isolates and invalidates the experience of those who don't fit the stereotype.

 

[LiamO]

I have no problem at all in stating that Page's relationship with Maddox was incredibly wrong and sick.

Especially when it happened after Bowie?

Never mind, Dave had probly loosened her up a bit by then... would've lessened the trauma somewhat.

Maybe Page's defence would be 'Well it's not like she was a virgin or anything... she was well used to Pop Star cock by the time I got to her.

 

[8den]

So then your question should be are there any more grown women now who've come forward and admitted Bowie fucked them when they were kids ?

Not yet. So far just the one has admitted Bowie drugged and fucked her when she was a child of 13 .


You seem determined to dig your own hole on this one. My final bit of advice to you is there is no win here . It's all lose. Either way .

I've already said that if more women come forward I'll reconsider my position. You're the one whose gone from "there definitely loads of instances" to "I could name names but shan't" then "there's probably more than one" and finally rested on "you'll be sorry when the names come out". You grasp of the facts and your willingness to abuse them to suit your position suggests you could find work as a sub editor on a particularly vile red top tabloid

 

[laptop]

Drugs. Let's talk about the drugs. X "plied" Y with drugs, they keep saying.

Surely a large part of the point of hanging out with rock stars was access to drugs?

 

[sim667]

Innocent unless proven guilty? I don't recall Savile's trial!

You saying Saville doesn't deserve the bad press?

 

[Idris2002]

I remember that - it seemed fucked up when I read it 20 odd years ago. She gets taken in by a biker gang at one point.

I remember that as well, and it read like it was deliberately written as a warning.

 

[bi0boy]

Drugs. Let's talk about the drugs. X "plied" Y with drugs, they keep saying.

Surely a large part of the point of hanging out with rock stars was access to drugs?

Even more of a reason not to do any plying I would have thought, especially with the knowledge that the plying will make it easier to have sex with the child.

 

[tendril]

A 13 year old child . 8dens telling fibs again . Lori Maddox was 13 years old when Bowie got at her . 8den is actually justifying grown men drugging and fucking 13 year old kids .

He just did that, lots of times . Might be time for me to name him after another well known broadcaster .

Just being devil's advocate here but Lori's account seems to say that Sable was the one to initiate the drug taking and really drove the desire to have sex with the rock stars.

When we hear 'underage sex' the image that comes to mind is of a 50 year old nonce hanging around the girls' school inviting them to 'come and see some puppies' and that was clearly not the case. Lori also states that she felt that she was 'the last virgin' at her school. I take that at face value. It doesn't mean the other schoolgirls were sleeping with older men.

But, whilst Lori seems to have come out of the experience unscathed, Sable did not, attempting suicide and narrowly escaping psychiatric hospital.

 

[bimble]

Wish I'd just stuck to the cologne thread, that was bad enough.
If I can say this without being misunderstood as an apologist for paedophiles .. I was an absolute nightmare as a 15ish year old girl, to say I had agency would be an understatement. Still, luckily for me, the grown up men I fancied at the time ran away politely but really fast (perhaps in part due to it not being the 70s).

 

[Pickman's model]

Just being devil's advocate here but Lori's account seems to say that Sable was the one to initiate the drug taking and really drove the desire to have sex with the rock stars.

When we hear 'underage sex' the image that comes to mind is of a 50 year old nonce hanging around the girls' school inviting them to 'come and see some puppies' and that was clearly not the case. Lori also states that she felt that she was 'the last virgin' at her school. I take that at face value. It doesn't mean the other schoolgirls were sleeping with older men.

But, whilst Lori seems to have come out of the experience unscathed, Sable did not, attempting suicide and narrowly escaping psychiatric hospital.

i don't know if you recall this thread Barrister criticised for calling child abuse victim 'predatory'

the thing is, IT DOESN'T MATTER who initiated the drug taking and really drove the desire to have sex with the rock stars. it doesn't matter if a 13, 14, or dare i say even 15 year auld throws herself at a 30 year auld man: the criminal responsibility rests with the man. the driver here may have been the status of the rock stars, but there's a clear power disparity here which people like page and bowie enjoyed and took advantage of. what the girls could have considered is, why if he's such a star isn't he shagging 17, 18, 19 year aulds instead of us? frankly it's perhaps because more energy might have been expended to get them into bed.

 

[Pickman's model]

You saying Saville doesn't deserve the bad press?

vile, awful, not ville, town.

 

[laptop]

IT DOESN'T MATTER who initiated the drug taking.

And it's every adult's duty to refuse.

The denial of any agency to teens by at least one poster remains very deeply disturbing. These people shouldn't be allowed near children either.

 

[Pickman's model]

And it's every adult's duty to refuse.

The denial of any agency to teens by at least one poster remains very deeply disturbing. These people shouldn't be allowed near children either.

yes. i remember when i was 19 a 14 year auld girl threw herself at me: being below 16 she was too young and i rebuffed her - although when some years later when i met her again when she was 19 matters had, i felt, changed.

 

[LiamO]

It's funny how things can become 'normal' when you are exposed to them often enough. I look back at episodes in my life that I took in my stride but would, I suspect, be much viewed much differently these days.

When I worked on the Holiday camp (mid 1980's) there was a lad there called Mark. He was a 23-year old ex-Para (which made for interesting conversations with the two lads from the Bogside who worked behind the Bar. They could discuss various riots they had been at - on opposite sides). Mark was a 'ladies man' who revelled in his rep as a silver-tongued Cockney wide-boy (Well he was from Essex).

Anyways I was in Mark's chalet one day having a smoke and asked him where the ashtray was. He said 'Under the bed'. As the glass ashtray slid out, a sheet of A4 paper came out with it. He clocked what it was and made a grab for it, but too late. It had 37 girls names on it, with dates and (somewhat more disturbingly) their ages. He also had a little system of marks which denoted what he had done with them. 37 names, maybe 13/14 weeks into the season. I recognised more than a few as being amongst the most sought after girls on the Staff (all 18+ including some in their late 20's... mostly staff, one or two performers ) but more than a dozen were punters aged 16.

I asked what was the craic with the dates and he replied that he kept a record 'In case I get a dose so I can trace it back'.

'What about the ages?' I asked, unconvinced.

'I just like to know'

'How do you know they're actually 16?' he laughed and replied that he just asked them - and confirmed it with their family, whether that was siblings or their parents. Obviously he never asked 'Is it OK if I shag yer daughter?' but his position as a holiday host (Bluecoat) meant he spoke with lots of families every day and his enquiries about ther various ages would seem innocent enough. He said he had a strict rule that he never shagged anyone under 16 but openly admitted that his 'policy' was more to do with self-preservation than morals.

My jaw was kind of on the floor by this stage but I persevered with the next question... "What about these six (one was 17 I think, the rest 16-yr olds) with the circled 'V' beside them?' He cheerily agreed these were all virgins - or at least claimed to be.

I was more than a bit wtf about all this but he saw nothing wrong with it - at all. He said that his family had always gone to Pontins/Butlins as kids, that his sisters and loads of their mates had all 'popped their cherry', often with Bluecoats/Redcoats, on holiday camps, usually on what would be their last family holiday before they were old enough to go away with their mates. He reckoned he - and everyone else he went with/met over the years saw it as a rite of passage. He twigged early on as a teenager that he and his mates were only getting what was left after the Holiday Hosts had had their pick (or 'sloppy seconds' as he charmingly put it) so he had vowed that one day he would be the one getting to choose. Hence his new career.

'Look mate. They've come here for cock. End of. And I'm the man to give it to 'em.' His attitude was he was somehow doing them a favour. That they were determined to get shagged anyway and it might as well be with someone who knew 'what the fuck they were doing'. And anyway their ambition was to lose their virginity to a Bluecoat and who was he to deny them. He was also adamant and proud that he 'always wore Johnnies'. Again I suspect that this was more to do with self-preservation than concern for the girls but in his model of the world he was doing nothing wrong. In fact, he would not even concede it was all a bit iffy. Anybody who objected was 'just jealous'.

I pointed out that I wasn't jealous and that he was surrounded by loads of girls 18+ who were on their own (season-long) voyage of sexual discovery and there was no shortage of single Mums (The Gingerbread Club had a block booking on a whole row of Chalets) who were looking for drink and sex. Why could he not shag them? He said he shagged them as well, but he simply 'liked them young... and innocent'. 'Popping Cherries' was a perk of the job as far as he was concerned and had been for generations. He said I should be at it myself. I replied that maybe if I was 18 I would be. But I wasn't 18. I was 22 and that was too old to be chasing 16-yr olds, especially when there was so much sex, freely available with girls more my own age.

He also pointed out that his boss was doing the same thing to (or in their model of the world 'for') lots of young boys. Again it was seen as a perk of the job.

What the previous Season's lifeguard had done (shagging a 15-yr old all week then 'flipping her over and doing her up the gary' on the last night was IHO 'bang out of order and the cunt deserved what he got cos he was taking the piss'. Story was the 19-yr old in question was arrested and walked the length of the Staff chalets in handcuffs and tears.

I could write a book about the sexual/interpersonal shenanigans in my two seasons there. Maybe one day I will.

I dunno what the point of this post is really. Maybe it's if he (as a small-scale 'Pop-star' with the sexual morals of an tomcat) could get his head around not shagging underage girls, maybe genuine Rock Stars should not find it that difficult. Or maybe he just didn't think he'd get away with it?

That last bit is maybe a little unkind - as in he had drawn his line and would not cross it.

I lost touch with him afterwards but he did get back in touch in the early 2000's - when Friends Reunited was a thing. He was 'birded up for years' (ironically enough with a woman well older than him) and all that was 'ancient history'. He didn't even play the field these days.

 

[tendril]

And it's every adult's duty to refuse.

The denial of any agency to teens by at least one poster remains very deeply disturbing. These people shouldn't be allowed near children either.

I do hope you realise that I am not defending what happened.