#occupy London....

[Luther Blissett]

so people shouldn't try to stop the fash/loons highjacking protests then?

if you want to add to what I've written, then please feel free to do so.

I'm quite sure that no such idea could ever be deduced from any of my posts here on urban75.

 

[claphamboy]

LOL

ETA: Not @LB, but the few posts before.

 

[love detective]

i wonder if it had been a white man spouting racist & homophobic shit would it have been so easily ignored/brushed under the carpet/nothing to see here

 

[frogwoman]

if you want to add to what I've written, then please feel free to do so.

ok. the problem isn't just "the coalition government". It's also labour as well, who actually started these cuts adn have been in many places the most vociferous implementers of them.

re: the loons, this is also too important to let loons and fash take over protests and drive everyone else away without being challenged on it.

 

[Luther Blissett]

I agree that labour were also a problem.

And you're probably aware that I already address the fash/racists/loons whenever they rear their heads. Geoff (Cohen) and myself have been dealing with ressurrection of old anti-jewish bigotry for most of today following the publication of a statement of support from the London Occupy Judaism contingent which I'm invovled in. It's brought all manner of tragic anti-Jewish conspiraloon viewpoints out of the woodwork.

In one thread (OccupyBrum) you appeared to be telling me to leave off addressing the conspiraloons, in this thread you appear to be criticising an unrelated post of mine for not mentioning labour or conspiraloons. Bottom line is this - you don't get to tell me how to spend my time and if you think I haven't addressed something, then you write about it yourself, okay?

 

[bingiman]

It will bring everyone out of the woodwork.

 

[frogwoman]

Its just that your post came across a bit "lets have unity" like ... fair enough tho, and fair play to ya

 

[frogwoman]

sorry if i misread your post, it did come across a bit like that to me though.

 

[Azrael]

Guardian interview with Bish of London.

My surprise at the extent of St Paul's U-turn has shot up since Graeme Knowles walked. At this rate, wouldn't be shocked if the London folks do end up inside the Cathedral's walls.

 

[Corax]

Guardian interview with Bish of London.

My surprise at the extent of St Paul's U-turn has shot up since Graeme Knowles walked. At this rate, wouldn't be shocked if the London folks do end up inside the Cathedral's walls.

I'm not surprised, but I am relieved and pleased.

 

[ymu]

If the camp had been at Canary Wharf, assuming they hadn't been forced off within an hour, would it have made as much inpact as the St Paul's camp? I doubt it. It wasn't aimed at the Cathedral, of course, but the clashes that came about has kept this event all over the media, and resulted in two major resignations. They have got more than they bargained for. Fortune can come from the most unexpected places. Que sera sera? (Well, it did all start in Spain.)

I think that's right.

For a start, the City of London itself is a huge issue - a state within a state, a tax haven in its own right and the ultimate sustaining force behind the vast number of other British-run tax havens as well as providing a regulation-lite environment for firms to do what they could not get away with elsewhere (it's where Lehman's based the dodgy trading that brought it down, for example). There needs to be a focus in the UK on the City, even if it's not the only one. Camps/actions in Canary Wharf make sense, of course - but as well as, not instead of, those based in the City.

Secondly, the St Paul's camp, serendipitously or otherwise (bit of both, I think), have stumbled into an area of the City where its a lot harder to get rid of them than just about anywhere else - as we're seeing, with St Paul's backing off legal action because of the immense backlash within and without the CofE and the Corporation delaying serving an eviction notice for a second time this week, and possibly indefinitely.

The few demands published by OLSX so far have been focused on the City of London and the anti-democratic abuses its existence allows - and hides. Whatever else people do or don't want Occupy LSX to be about, this is a very important focus for the UK protests - globally as well as nationally relevant, and virtually impossible for anyone to disagree with whilst maintaining a pretence of honesty. The location is perfect - there are Christians organising for a ring of prayer to resist forcible eviction of the camp ffs! The media are lapping it up, and large sections of even the right-wing press are sympathetic on some of these issues (especially tax avoidance). Which is why, I guess, the City are having a rethink on their PR strategy. They risk blowing this up in their own faces now.

Lunatic fringe aside (and yes, they do need to be marginalised), the City occupiers are doing just fine.

 

[nino_savatte]

Some peeps wanna reclaim the city at the Lord Mayor's Show 12th November,
http://www.reclaimthecity.org/
Anyone know anymore about this?

The Lord Mayor of the City of London, better known as the Chief Oligarch of the Rotten Borough of London.

 

[ddraig]

well said ymu

 

[g force]

I think that's right.

For a start, the City of London itself is a huge issue - a state within a state, a tax haven in its own right and the ultimate sustaining force behind the vast number of other British-run tax havens as well as providing a regulation-lite environment for firms to do what they could not get away with elsewhere (it's where Lehman's based the dodgy trading that brought it down, for example)..

Your post is excellent - apart from that one point,which is factually incorrect. It wasn't UK regulation that let Lehman do what it did it and it wasn't 'trading' in terms of the traditional stock exchnage transactions that was utlimately it's downfall.

One thing that I have somewhat struggled with slightly is why the LSE was targetted...I understand as a symbol of financial services but it's 'power' or 'influence' is pretty minor. That said, the position of the camp is definitely drawing more attention to the issues as anything at Canary Wharf would have been swept away very quickly due to who owns the land.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . . For a start, the City of London itself is a huge issue - a state within a state, . . .

More like a local authority surely?

. . . and the ultimate sustaining force behind the vast number of other British-run tax havens

Which would be Caymens etc incorporated? I don't understand why it's the "ultimate sustaing force"

. . . as well as providing a regulation-lite environment

That's dictated by government legislation not the CoL

The few demands published by OLSX so far have been focused on the City of London and the anti-democratic abuses its existence allows - and hides.

How many CoL residents did they consult over these "demands"?

One thing that I have somewhat struggled with slightly is why the LSE was targetted...

Quite, wanna do some serious "in your face" damage? Find out where the LSE's servers are and camp outside there (serious)

 

[nino_savatte]

How many CoL residents did they consult over these "demands"?

How many CoF residents are there? 11,700. The City has few permanent residents. Most everyone goes home to the Home Counties at the end of the working day.

 

[teqniq]

@ A Dashing Blade: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

 

[OneStrike]

^that. To call the City of London simply 'a local authority' is a little way off reality!

 

[butchersapron]

17,000 business votes vs 6,000-odd residents votes. That's not a local authority, that's a captured city.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

More like a local authority surely?

It's nothing like any other local authority in the country.

Too much information to transpose but read the City of London wiki and you should get the idea about the vested business interests and so on.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I went down for a bit today to give it another go/chance - after battling my way past a group of people holding a big cross and chanting about Jesus I met a (the?) representative from the British Racial Democratic Party who had centre stage on the steps in front of the cathedral and was promoting their holy book on racial government while also taking the time to give us their thoughts on the evils of homosexuality

This all went one without anyone saying a thing to the guy or telling him to fuck off - I asked him what he was about but couldn't make sense of anything he said

All in all not a great advert for things (not so much the loonies themselves who are bound to pop up everywhere at these things, but the tolerance of them by the camp itself - i tried to speak to the guy about the homophobia thing but there was no sense being made, so it seems everyone just seemed happy to let him have centre stage and push his homophobic shit)

I wasn't there but heard about this guy 'disrupting' the GA and things getting a bit messy. Did you see that?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

It's nothing like any other local authority in the country.

Too much information to transpose but read the City of London wiki and you should get the idea about the vested business interests and so on.

More than aware (personal experience) that I live and work in the most undemocratic part of mainland UK thank you.

 

[nino_savatte]

Dreckmeister, Toby Young describes the #OccupyLSX camp as being "revolutionary socialists". The last paragraph is vintage.

If the Archbishop of Canterbury and the St Paul's protestors really want to address inequality, they should forget about bashing the bankers and start thinking about how to increase educational opportunities. A good place to start would be by making a donation to the West London Free School.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...olutionary-socialists-camped-out-at-st-pauls/

Is his vanity school really that short of cash that he has to appeal to those he smears for donations? What a cunt.

 

[love detective]

I wasn't there but heard about this guy 'disrupting' the GA and things getting a bit messy. Did you see that?

Didn't see that (as couldn't really bear to spend that much time there, was a fairly alienating experience once again i'm afraid) - but he was shown way too much tolerance from the get go so not surprised as what you said - everyone was just glancing at their shoes and pretending he wasn't there while he rattled out his shit (equating homosexuality with pedophilia& bestiality for example), didn't seem to be any kind of personal or collective responsibility to confront him

 

[TopCat]

Didn't see that (as couldn't really bear to spend that much time there, was a fairly alienating experience once again i'm afraid) - but he was shown way too much tolerance from the get go so not surprised as what you said - everyone was just glancing at their shoes and pretending he wasn't there while he rattled out his shit (equating homosexuality with pedophilia& bestiality for example), didn't seem to be any kind of personal or collective responsibility to confront him

You do seem to put yourself in the company (on the net and in real life) of people you can't stand politically? Is this a general masochism or can we expect long debates between you and your local Tories?

 

[Kizmet]

Turn around and walk off. No better message than disdain. They have the right to say their shit and you have the right to lead everyone else away.

 

[love detective]

You do seem to put yourself in the company (on the net and in real life) of people you can't stand politically? Is this a general masochism or can we expect long debates between you and your local Tories?

maybe you're right - but when something like that occupy thing is going on in the city where you live, no matter what your preconceptions are about it, it would be stupid not to visit a few times to at least give it a chance to prove you wrong (or me right) - and also just out of morbid curiosity i thought it was worth visiting a few times. There does seem to be some odd/weird currents developing at the moment, so got to at least take a look at them to see what the hell's going on around us

 

[TopCat]

I think you and the IWCA generally think that you have it all nutted out and just feel frustrated that others don't swamp you with applications to join and offers of help.

I blame a few things for this reluctance, from the historical associations with Red Action, to the intransigent attitude of some of your more vocal and long standing members, to the simple fail/fall at first post name IE IWCA. For me it's more the latter PLUS the articles on the IWCA website that seem to belong in academia.

 

[Kizmet]

maybe you're right - but when something like that occupy thing is going on in the city where you live, no matter what your preconceptions are about it, it would be stupid not to visit a few times to at least give it a chance to prove you wrong (or me right) - and also just out of morbid curiosity i thought it was worth visiting a few times. There does seem to be some odd/weird currents developing at the moment, so got to at least take a look at them to see what the hell's going on around us

Impartial observers. Wonderful.

 

[gunneradt]

maybe you're right - but when something like that occupy thing is going on in the city where you live, no matter what your preconceptions are about it, it would be stupid not to visit a few times to at least give it a chance to prove you wrong (or me right) - and also just out of morbid curiosity i thought it was worth visiting a few times. There does seem to be some odd/weird currents developing at the moment, so got to at least take a look at them to see what the hell's going on around us

I look forward to seeing how they cope with the freezing weather over the next few months!!