Calais: Migration and the UK Border

[alfajobrob]

Nope, didn't insinuate it either. The point was that Jewish people fleeing the Nazis did not magically cease to be refugees once they had passed through France. Which is exactly the conclusion we would have to come to if we were to apply to them the same logic as you are applying to the migrants at Calais. Is that clear enough?

Of course it is Gruppenfuurher you fucking nazi prick

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Then goto Italy, France, Spain, Luxembourg ie the first countries they have to pass.

As already mentioned on this thread, there are many reasons why someone would keep on travelling once they have reached Europe. The English language being a major draw. Availability of Jobs is another. Family connections yet another. Then there is the fact that France has a notoriously slow asylum processing system, with people being left for months on end with no right to work, no financial support, and no security of knowing when the limbo they are left in will end.

As bluescreen just said, if they left home as refugees then they should be treated as refugees wherever they end up. Just as Jewish people should have been treated as refugees once they had passed through the nearest 'safe' country to get away from Hitler. I mention this, not for emotional effect, but because many Jews were in fact denied entry by Britain in the years leading up to WW2. Many of the same arguments against granting them refuge are exactly the same arguments being put forward today against the Calais migrants.

I'm sure they haven't got the Catholic church hangups they had a few centuries ago...why UK if not for preference?

I don't know what you mean by this, sorry.

ISIS, Boko Haram etc. I'm sure a small percentage could chat to the anti terror officers.

I don't know what you mean by this either.

Why are we responsible for Eritrea unless we sent Blair there...if we did all refugees welcome. More so the Rwandans.

There are many things we are not responsible for. This doesn't make the reality of needy people disappear, and it doesn't diminish our responsibility to each other as human beings.

Where does it stop or start?

It has no theoretical limit, and we should help all those that need it. The fact is, however, that the number of asylum applications is tiny compared to economic migration via the EU. There were 25,000 asylum applications in the year ending March 2015, compared to a net EU migration figure of 318,000. The idea that we are somehow 'swamped' is just fanciful.

 

[alfajobrob]

alfajobrob Are you suggesting that people stop being refugees and become economic migrants just because they have travelled away from the first 'safe' country they set foot in? That may be arguable if you're a government lawyer trying to evade responsibility but it's moral equivocation. You have seen explanations of why people don't get registered on first entry. Everyone tries to evade responsibility.

Gah..it's just difficult. I do see a difference with political asylum seekers and monetary ones.

 

[alfajobrob]

I don't give a shit about the english language argument for a start otherwise we would take in a fifth of the world.

All countries we could have sorted a bit better mind and I would give a few afghan, iranian, sri lankans passports out. the rest nah.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I don't give a shit about the english language argument for a start otherwise we would take in a fifth of the world.

All countries we could have sorted a bit better mind and I would give a few afghan, iranian, sri lankans passports out. the rest nah.

A fifth of the world aren't claiming asylum though; 25,000 people are. "The rest nah"? That's it? Really?

 

[alfajobrob]

As already mentioned on this thread, there are many reasons why someone would keep on travelling once they have reached Europe. The English language being a major draw. Availability of Jobs is another. Family connections yet another. Then there is the fact that France has a notoriously slow asylum processing system, with people being left for months on end with no right to work, no financial support, and no security of knowing when the limbo they are left in will end.

As bluescreen just said, if they left home as refugees then they should be treated as refugees wherever they end up. Just as Jewish people should have been treated as refugees once they had passed through the nearest 'safe' country to get away from Hitler. I mention this, not for emotional effect, but because many Jews were in fact denied entry by Britain in the years leading up to WW2. Many of the same arguments against granting them refuge are exactly the same arguments being put forward today against the Calais migrants.



I don't know what you mean by this, sorry.



I don't know what you mean by this either.



There are many things we are not responsible for. This doesn't make the reality of needy people disappear, and it doesn't diminish our responsibility to each other as human beings.

Enjoy tonight as you take in the refugees and share your coin

I hope you enjoy your youth and worthiness

It has no theoretical limit, and we should help all those that need it. The fact is, however, that the number of asylum applications is tiny compared to economic migration via the EU. There were 25,000 asylum applications in the year ending March 2015, compared to a net EU migration figure of 318,000. The idea that we are somehow 'swamped' is just fanciful.

Thats interesting you are equating "asylum" stats and I said we should take more.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Embarrassingly covering yourself in shit as you leave. A fitting end to the night.

eta: I see you edited that mess of a post to make a completely different point. That's interesting.

 

[alfajobrob]

Bless you cynicaleconomy..I'm sure you are as generous with all the money you don't have. I bet you have never bought a proper round in your little life.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Bless you cynicaleconomy..I'm sure you are as generous with all the money you don't have. I bet you have never bought a proper round in your little life.

Just go to bed mate.

 

[alfajobrob]

Just go to bed mate.

I thought you wanted to fight?

A pathetic internet one at that.

 

[alfajobrob]

A fifth of the world aren't claiming asylum though; 25,000 people are. "The rest nah"? That's it? Really?

Those countries should have beneficial terms I meant with the recent history and also system of immigration that is separate from asylum claims?

Is that too difficult to understand or just racist, xenophobic?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Those countries should have beneficial terms I meant with the recent history and also system of immigration that is separate from asylum claims?

Is that too difficult to understand or just racist, xenophobic?

I've never called you racist or xenophobic. The whole thread is about asylum. That's the point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I define an economic migrant as a person that has moved to a specific country passing through other countries that offer asylum and help. They have had the offer of help but they decide to move somewhere else. They can be both asylum seekers or refugees but they could of stopped 1000 miles ago so that makes it an economic or preferential choice.

Would you stop in a country that has a shit-poor record with regard to racism?

I am white, male, english and yet funnily enough don't feel any guilt....maybe because I'm not from a posh wanker background

I don't feel guilt. I feel compassion, same as I do for homeless people, and people being mistreated. Projecting liberal guilt on people is pathetic, and you're getting desperate if you're trying to imply that I'm "posh". I'm working-class and dirt-poor.

I am aware that Britain has spread English as a language throughout the world...I don't think that makes the modern day UK and people culpable for the worlds ills.

I haven't claimed it does. Why not address my arguments, not the ones you've read on the net?

People go on about Sweden accepting migrants etc....has anyone been there recently....It's still like spot the African, Migrant, it's all white.....nothing like the UK and much more racist.

If you don't understand how full of anus-dribblings that last sentence is, you're beyond help.

 

[alfajobrob]

I've never called you racist or xenophobic. The whole thread is about asylum. That's the point.

It's all about the definition

For me "asylum" would be anywhere I'm not getting shafted immediately and is safe. For most of you you it's the country of choice to live in with language, culture?

"Refugee" is another one you can be a refugee from a country and yet not be an asylum seeker and this or that, or you can be both either or a third term as a migrant which is massively loaded at the moment as well.

I've always said if I was from WA etc I would be here now so I don't blame people and I'm not a proper bastard in real life*



*lie

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whatever...still economic migrants....shall we offer all Sudanese and Somalian's passports due to your ethical notions of speaking Anglais?

Are you deliberately obtuse, or naturally thick?
I haven't said "offer all Sudanese and Somalians passports". I haven't even argued for open borders. I said that the reason they might head here is because they're Anglophone.
Don't put words in my mouth,there's a good fuckwit.

 

[alfajobrob]

Would you stop in a country that has a shit-poor record with regard to racism?



I don't feel guilt. I feel compassion, same as I do for homeless people, and people being mistreated. Projecting liberal guilt on people is pathetic, and you're getting desperate if you're trying to imply that I'm "posh". I'm working-class and dirt-poor.



I haven't claimed it does. Why not address my arguments, not the ones you've read on the net?



If you don't understand how full of anus-dribblings that last sentence is, you're beyond help.

The last sentence about Sweden was true tbh.

The rest I do have worries about and pretty much agree. I'm just in a bad mood is all.

 

[ViolentPanda]

alfajobrob Are you suggesting that people stop being refugees and become economic migrants just because they have travelled away from the first 'safe' country they set foot in? That may be arguable if you're a government lawyer trying to evade responsibility but it's moral equivocation. You have seen explanations of why people don't get registered on first entry. Everyone tries to evade responsibility.

Same argument both Labour and the Coalition used, and that the Tories are now using, regardless of the "first safe country" having been shown to contribute to racism, rightism and racist violence in European states as varied as Greece and France (as documented by HRW, SOS Racisme and others). Murders of "asylum seekers" in Germany, in Belgium, in Greece, in Spain, in Italy etc etc etc.

 

[alfajobrob]

Are you deliberately obtuse, or naturally thick?
I haven't said "offer all Sudanese and Somalians passports". I haven't even argued for open borders. I said that the reason they might head here is because they're Anglophone.
Don't put words in my mouth,there's a good fuckwit.

I was about to deliver a line of amazing abuse and then I thought...it's fucking 3am..and i need to be up in 4hrs

lol

 

[alfajobrob]

Same argument both Labour and the Coalition used, and that the Tories are now using, regardless of the "first safe country" having been shown to contribute to racism, rightism and racist violence in European states as varied as Greece and France (as documented by HRW, SOS Racisme and others). Murders of "asylum seekers" in Germany, in Belgium, in Greece, in Spain, in Italy etc etc etc.

I'm not that bad!

I don't advocate any shit apart from love personally.

I'm quite a reasonable chap tbh...just need an argument occasioanlly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was about to deliver a line of amazing abuse and then I thought...it's fucking 3am..and i need to be up in 4hrs

lol

You've saved yourself from looking like an even bigger cunt then, because your abuse wouldn't have been amazing. It would have been as badly constructed as your arguments.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not that bad!

I don't advocate any shit apart from love personally.

I'm quite a reasonable chap tbh...just need an argument occasioanlly.

Then why not make your argument well-informed,rather than reading like sub-tabloid loo lacquer?

 

[alfajobrob]

You've saved yourself from looking like an even bigger cunt then, because your abuse wouldn't have been amazing. It would have been as badly constructed as your arguments.

Fuck you mouthing fucking fuvcwitk fuck!

See!!!

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

...just need an argument occasioanlly.

So this whole display was just for shits n giggles. Nice.

 

[alfajobrob]

So this whole display was just for shits n giggles. Nice.

No..I still maintain what I said about the definition above. I was attempting to be nice to VP

Go fuck yourself.

 

[alfajobrob]

Then why not make your argument well-informed,rather than reading like sub-tabloid loo lacquer?

I have no idea tbh...my brothers would be ashamed of me.

 

[DotCommunist]

Why are we responsible for Eritrea unless we sent Blair there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Eritrea#British_administration_and_federalisation

two seconds googling you ignorant fucking cunt

 

[SpookyFrank]

Is this in Europe?

Crooked cops in Europe, yeah I was surprised too

 

[alfajobrob]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Eritrea#British_administration_and_federalisation

two seconds googling you ignorant fucking cunt

slightly less ignorant cunt after reading that....still don't see your point though...60+ years on and not being responsible myself like.

 

[andysays]

slightly less ignorant cunt after reading that....still don't see your point though...60+ years on and not being responsible myself like.

Does it really need pointing out that "we" are responsible for all refugees, whatever country they originally come from?

 

[alfajobrob]

No - it doesn't need pointing out that the entire world is responsible for the shit situation. I just want people to get rid of the the emotive language. I'm beginning to feel like the second coming of Hitler.