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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

Every fight you had was totally spot on??.....You never had a beef with him not having any of the said attributes when he was 'in favour' you sick fuck. Yeah and how many cunts in Rangers shirts got twatted along the way you clown. I know for a fact you dished out many an uneccessary slap in your day... the way you twist shit to your own ends is truly astonishing.....

As per usual your 'reply' has zero relation to my previous post, but as your here so to speak, perhaps you'd like to explain why AFA was written out of an AFA story in what afterall was an AFA publication - what was the the thinking behind it and why, as you were involved with the fanzine at the time (1995) were you happy to go along with the instant revisionism?
 
We used to go down to Saul to buy rough cider off these three mad old bachelor brothers, one blind and one had a massive goitre. West Country Deliverance. Top cider for 50p a litre.

that's not exactly good PR for your product is it, being blind!
 
Every fight you had was totally spot on??.....You never had a beef with him not having any of the said attributes when he was 'in favour' you sick fuck. Yeah and how many cunts in Rangers shirts got twatted along the way you clown. I know for a fact you dished out many an uneccessary slap in your day... the way you twist shit to your own ends is truly astonishing.....
When you employed threats from gangsters to remove Dave and myself from Red Attitude you imported a bunch of numpties to sell it...even fucking City fans...ffs. And John Heddon who was he supporting at the time???? I think he's followed more teams than he's been in political organisations. Chelsea, Rangers, Leeds, Stockport Co, City. I really think your clutching at straws again in your sick pursuit of Dave.
 
When you employed threats from gangsters to remove Dave and myself from Red Attitude you imported a bunch of numpties to sell it...even fucking City fans...ffs. And John Heddon who was he supporting at the time???? I think he's followed more teams than he's been in political organisations. Chelsea, Rangers, Leeds, Stockport Co, City. I really think your clutching at straws again in your sick pursuit of Dave.

In addittion to issuing replies that bare no resemblance to the message initially posted, you again entirely ignore the questions posed directly to you (no 3181) in favour of posting a 'reply' to your own post! As you well know it was AFA that removed Red Attitude from Hann.

And why In God's name would anyone have to employ gangsters to remove you from anything?

Manchester Martyrs told you and Searchlight 'your safety couldn't be guaranteed' if you continued to interfere in their affairs.

No gangster involvement required.

Hann himself was forced to sack you in the early 90's after you the Rochdale debacle. No gangster involvement required.

You were again turfed out following the Nolan fiasco. Again no gangster involvement required.

But probably Because Hann was already compromised by then, you were able to ease your way back into Red Attitude circles, under the guise of being 'a genuine Utd fan' (who would later decamp to FC United before again 'returning to the fold') and pose as Hann's close personal buddy: the same 'close personal buddy' who nonetheless failed to turn up to support him when he was on robbery charges at Liverpool Crown Court?


But that aside, there is another striking contrast between word and deed.

Although you keep making disparaging comments about gangsters at every opportunity (and on almost every thread you visit) you not only made time to be at Dessie's funeral, (who might on occasion have been so described by the uncharitable) but it was also evident from your curious behaviour on the day, you were not only determined to be there, you also wanted, along with standout oddball SPoooooo00000ky, to be seen to be there.

You do know what I'm referring to here, right?

Now the last time we got this far, if I remember correctly, another thread was taken down under threats of legal action, so I'll say no more.

But if you want to expand further on the 'gangster connected' theme, I am perfectly happy to present you with the opportunity.

Fire away.
 
It will be really sad if this thread gets deleted or affected by this sad bickering, whatever the rights and wrongs of things behind it.

it just goes way too far beyond any idea of constructive criticism and analysis, it's an SMS-war...
 
In addittion to issuing replies that bare no resemblance to the message initially posted, you again entirely ignore the questions posed directly to you (no 3181) in favour of posting a 'reply' to your own post! As you well know it was AFA that removed Red Attitude from Hann.

And why In God's name would anyone have to employ gangsters to remove you from anything?

Manchester Martyrs told you and Searchlight 'your safety couldn't be guaranteed' if you continued to interfere in their affairs.

No gangster involvement required.

Hann himself was forced to sack you in the early 90's after you the Rochdale debacle. No gangster involvement required.

You were again turfed out following the Nolan fiasco. Again no gangster involvement required.

But probably Because Hann was already compromised by then, you were able to ease your way back into Red Attitude circles, under the guise of being 'a genuine Utd fan' (who would later decamp to FC United before again 'returning to the fold') and pose as Hann's close personal buddy: the same 'close personal buddy' who nonetheless failed to turn up to support him when he was on robbery charges at Liverpool Crown Court?


But that aside, there is another striking contrast between word and deed.

Although you keep making disparaging comments about gangsters at every opportunity (and on almost every thread you visit) you not only made time to be at Dessie's funeral, (who might on occasion have been so described by the uncharitable) but it was also evident from your curious behaviour on the day, you were not only determined to be there, you also wanted, along with standout oddball SPoooooo00000ky, to be seen to be there.

You do know what I'm referring to here, right?

Now the last time we got this far, if I remember correctly, another thread was taken down under threats of legal action, so I'll say no more.

But if you want to expand further on the 'gangster connected' theme, I am perfectly happy to present you with the opportunity.

Fire away.
Once again you lie your way through history. And your tough talk' why would gangsters have to turf you out of anything' here we go again with that fucking shite....and you of all people should keep quiet about the 'past'. You and your cronies hid behind gangsters and used them when you didnt have the guts yourself. Manchester Martyrs had an issue with me re a personal level but I turned up and was fine you dont scare me pal with your tough talk never have never will...and it was you lot who ended up gettingt the boot when you spat your dummy out and attacked a key Martyrs organiser. Fact. The Rochdale debacle was a debacle in your imagination. Again you made false allegations abpout the day and for which you have produced no evidence. Same for Nolan which has been done to death.You also listen far too much to Denis's tittle tattle. I handed my season ticket back when the Glazers took over...didnt want to fund his debt..went to 12 or so 'Man U' away games that first season and still do but followed FC a fair bit too for a couple of seasons and still go to a few games, no probs mate.. FC should be where you lot should be...with your so called community stuff...check their website. I never went 'away' another pathetic lie, from United...Ive been a MUST committee member for 3 years and your attempt at ridicule is as cunty as ever.

I never eased my way in to Red attitude and if I did then why did your lot not have a say..its becuse your all bluff and bluster and people began to tell you to stop being so fucking ridiculous. As far as Dave at Liverpool....I had no knowledge about what was going on to any extent and because Turner was involved I especially felt no compulsion to be any where near the cunt. My behaviour on the day again is part of your fictional obsession with me. I had known Dessie in the early years and was especially close to him following personal tragedies. I went to his funeral in respect for those days not that I have to explain to you.....who fucking growled and scowled with your sidekick all day. Fuck me theres looking hard and trying to look hard...even one of DC's old mates commented on the swagger. And dont forget this old mate was one of the early lads who Ive kept in touch with and weve discussed the whole shebang. Re the Spook thing..try gain mate and you'll make a twat of yourself again and the mods might have to pull it once more. The hypocrisy is you wallow in the gangs/crew/handy lads/ hard cunts shite and that you that you used them when needed but your IWCA line isnt it against all these anti social behaviour types. Your a complete fraud O'Shea who really needs to take a closer look at what youve actually contributed in the last 2 decades...fuck all in my eyes. In fact all you do is besmirch others in the hope it makes you look better. Oh and ManU...thats unforgiveable.
 
It will be really sad if this thread gets deleted or affected by this sad bickering, whatever the rights and wrongs of things behind it.

it just goes way too far beyond any idea of constructive criticism and analysis, it's an SMS-war...

Big Nose has a ten-year personal investment in parading a false account of history. It began on the RA discussion site in 2002, continued with the publication of No Retreat, (In which the BNP emerged victorious in the battle for the streets if you haven't read it) re-ignited with the announcement that BTF was to be published.

He, along with others was behind the campaign to try and intimidate the publishers into abandoning the project, in which incidentally he very nearly succeeded. He was also party to a threatened law-suit against the authors, in which he helpfully supplied names of those he felt ought to be made liable in court, individuals note, who unlike him, shunned any publicity. And so on.

This thread is called 'Beating the Fascists'. Which is the name of the book about the campaign by AFA against the NF,BNP, B&H C18 and so forth. The sole purpose of the book was to set the record stratight and point to the lessons that can be learned from it.

But how can anyone learn anything if they don't know who or what to believe?

Which is the singular purpose of Big Nose's involvement on here: to smear the lens; to muddy the waters. A score draw is the best he can hope for. 'Constructive criticism and analysis' is not his forte.


So when he say he makes an allegation that AFA used gangsters to drive him out of politics - you have nothing to say. But it is only when the accusation is rebutted you feel obliged to describe it as 'bickering'.

Presumably, all of his many assertions can stand unchallenged as far as your concerned?

And when he states that it was AFA and not the BNP that threw in the towel, that too should left lie - 'whatever the rights or wrongs behind it?'

You may think the past is history. But, as your own little contribution illustrates, the past isn't even passed.
 
Big Nose has a ten-year personal investment in parading a false account of history. It began on the RA discussion site in 2002, continued with the publication of No Retreat, (In which the BNP emerged victorious in the battle for the streets if you haven't read it) re-ignited with the announcement that BTF was to be published.

He, along with others was behind the campaign to try and intimidate the publishers into abandoning the project, in which incidentally he very nearly succeeded. He was also party to a threatened law-suit against the authors, in which he helpfully supplied names of those he felt ought to be made liable in court, individuals note, who unlike him, shunned any publicity. And so on.

This thread is called 'Beating the Fascists'. Which is the name of the book about the campaign by AFA against the NF,BNP, B&H C18 and so forth. The sole purpose of the book was to set the record stratight and point to the lessons that can be learned from it.

But how can anyone learn anything if they don't know who or what to believe?

Which is the singular purpose of Big Nose's involvement on here: to smear the lens; to muddy the waters. A score draw is the best he can hope for. 'Constructive criticism and analysis' is not his forte.


So when he say he makes an allegation that AFA used gangsters to drive him out of politics - you have nothing to say. But it is only when the accusation is rebutted you feel obliged to describe it as 'bickering'.

Presumably, all of his many assertions can stand unchallenged as far as your concerned?

And when he states that it was AFA and not the BNP that threw in the towel, that too should left lie - 'whatever the rights or wrongs behind it?'

You may think the past is history. But, as your own little contribution illustrates, the past isn't even passed.
RA discussion site my arse. 7 year personal attack site. Me along with others...you mean Daves missus ffs. I supplied names to her lawyers...really..you mean the lawyers who were helping her in trying to protect her children who were still mourning from the disgusting lies and smears about there father. Fuck you. Sick fucker.
 
As per usual your 'reply' has zero relation to my previous post, but as your here so to speak, perhaps you'd like to explain why AFA was written out of an AFA story in what afterall was an AFA publication - what was the the thinking behind it and why, as you were involved with the fanzine at the time (1995) were you happy to go along with the instant revisionism?
Historically no matter what I say makes no difference to you..but if I said I disagreed with its inclusion would that be enough???
 
RA discussion site my arse. 7 year personal attack site. Me along with others...you mean Daves missus ffs. I supplied names to her lawyers...really..you mean the lawyers who were helping her in trying to protect her children who were still mourning from the disgusting lies and smears about there father. Fuck you. Sick fucker.
regardless of what the reasons were and regardless of what you think of those people personally, do you think that supplying the names of anti-fascists to law firms (connecting them to documented anti-fascist activity) is something that can be justified in any circumstances?
 
regardless of what the reasons were and regardless of what you think of those people personally, do you think that supplying the names of anti-fascists to law firms (connecting them to documented anti-fascist activity) is something that can be justified in any circumstances?
NO I think of them in mainly political terms. AND if I have given names to a law firm then only the law firm would be in a position to divulge that information (under client confidentiality). Will OShea therefore show me any documenation/evidence to that effect. And dont start taking the moral high ground on this stuff either l.d as you should refer back to the RA website circa 2003 where they revealed reams of sensitive and personal stuff about me which gave the authorities and the fash plenty of wanking material. Shameful behaviour and you need to address that mate before having a poke at me.
Supplying names my arse. Wasnt it the same lawyers they used to relieve a local Labour party of 20k. Did they name names ?? I believe though if you write a book then fucking do it without using a hooky name. Even the football hooligan bods do. When I wrote NR I left loads out as it would finger either myself for stuff I was doing mainly with others and bigger stuff that may have been risky or helpful to the enemies. You should have put your names to it and be the big men you claim to be.
 
meanwhile, what is wrong with this picture?
moss%20arcade%20gun.jpg
 
It's badly composed - the strip of lights on the far left should be parallel to the edge of the picture for example, and the ceding tile should be likewise with the top of the picture. To be honest it should have been shot portrait rather than landscape though.
Uze he ???
 
It's badly composed - the strip of lights on the far left should be parallel to the edge of the picture for example, and the ceding tile should be likewise with the top of the picture. To be honest it should have been shot portrait rather than landscape though.
Put it in Red Storms anti fascist arcade
 
NO I think of them in mainly political terms. AND if I have given names to a law firm then only the law firm would be in a position to divulge that information (under client confidentiality). Will OShea therefore show me any documenation/evidence to that effect.

I saw all the letters from Carter Ruck at the time where they made various demands about the book - they specifically refer to you as their source of the primary authors names
 
I saw all the letters from Carter Ruck at the time where they made various demands about the book - they specifically refer to you as their source of the primary authors names
I will take it up with them tomorrow. I had one short telephone conversation with them...no letters...no emails...I think youll find they did some basic detective work. Not even tricky fuckers mate.... basic ..even you should know that. I did not name any potential authors. No such restraint when putting out your shite on me and others...dont come the victim bollox. When people have asked me who is the BTF Sean fellah I tell them who I thinks behind it...so better get me on that too. Stop being wingeing shithouses
 
I saw all the letters from Carter Ruck at the time where they made various demands about the book - they specifically refer to you as their source of the primary authors names
Is that the same as divulging ( along with Louise )who had been responsible for the 15 year smear campaign against Dave which Ive been happy to do elsewhere no problems or are we playing semantics. Like anyone else it aint rocket science to work out within a couple of names...but it would have been a guess all the same...no real proof but did know who was behind the hate smears and threats you hypocrtical twats (..was I right Mr Love Detective when you saw the 'so called documentation') No youre a liar true to form. But even so hiding behind pseudonyms goes against the honorable tradition of recording our anti fascist and working class history...no balls whatsover...you had no reason to be dishonest with the authorship...so eager to dish it but squirm and squeal and cry foul ..when its served back
 
But even so hiding behind pseudonyms goes against the tradition of recording history
i think you'll find it doesn't. for instance, no one's ever complained about rupert allason using the name nigel west for his work on mi5. there's also no end of anonymous historians and chroniclers, eg the author of the armenian rhyming chronicle. there's no rules of history which say 'thou shalt give thy real name'. as for people being eager to dish it out, procopius famously kept a 'secret history' which would have led to a sudden truncation of his life if justinian and theodora had happened upon it.
 
i think you'll find it doesn't. for instance, no one's ever complained about rupert allason using the name nigel west for his work on mi5. there's also no end of anonymous historians and chroniclers, eg the author of the armenian rhyming chronicle. there's no rules of history which say 'thou shalt give thy real name'. as for people being eager to dish it out, procopius famously kept a 'secret history' which would have led to a sudden truncation of his life if justinian and theodora had happened upon it.
Do me a favour
 
Is all this argument in the book? I bought it at the Bookfair but haven't read it yet.

Not really. The book is about AFA nationally. The controversy about Hann is dealt with in a couple of pages. And the two are mentioned in passing on a couple of other occassions. The fact of the matter is that neither were major players. I'd guess that outside Manchester Big Nose would be unknown by 90 per cent of AFA, and Hann totally unknown to to 90 per cent of the opposition. I might be wrong but I'm am not aware of him every having been mentioned by them (BNP etc) even once. Now this maybe because unlike the 'cowards' who fronted the organisation in other areas, Glasgow, Brum, London and so on he never took a nicking. Never charged with a single political offence. Not once.

It is not disputed that as a rank and filer Hann had a credible record on the ground (but no better than a hundred others) but he was no string-puller. He was indeed notorious for not speaking at national meetings/conferences and had zero influence and input politically. So you have Hann the feared street-fighter/leader no one recognises, bolted togther with Tilzey the self-syled 'intelligence chief' everyone on the other side knows. The odd couple. The Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of anti-fascism.
 
Is that the same as divulging ( along with Louise )who had been responsible for the 15 year smear campaign against Dave which Ive been happy to do elsewhere no problems or are we playing semantics. Like anyone else it aint rocket science to work out within a couple of names...but it would have been a guess all the same...no real proof but did know who was behind the hate smears and threats you hypocrtical twats (..was I right Mr Love Detective when you saw the 'so called documentation')

sorry but if you want to have a go at putting that into something more comprehensible you might get a better response

No youre a liar true to form.

what are you claiming that I am lying about? That the initial letter from Carter Ruck (which was aimed at preventing the book's publication) referred to you as their source for the names of the primary authors?
 
Now this maybe because unlike the 'cowards' who fronted the organisation in other areas, Glasgow, Brum, London and so on he never took a nicking. Never charged with a single political offence. Not once.

Pardon my interjection, but surely not getting nicked when involved in political activity that the state considers criminal is a GOOD thing?
 
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