Wrongful Arrest
- Thread starter diddums
- Start date
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Your first post suggests the robbery recently happened and the police were looking for the robber. While the police might have said they 'wanted a chat' what they really wanted was to see what the person matching the outline description of the robber had with them - whether they had the stuff just robbed. Assuming cooperation, it would have been a very brief 'chat' as they were in pursuit.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
If the police had received information that two white youths wearing hoodies had just beaten-up a black kid and jumped on a bus. When they stop the bus, who do you think they should question?
"Answers only from those who agree with me!"
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Of course they will need to apprehend possible suspects, but it's remarkable how often they're looking for young black men who happen to be dressed just like the young black man in front of them. It happens far, far more often than the proportion of crimes committed by young black men would suggest it should.
But you know, carry on assuming that this was legit. It's a lot easier than pulling your head out from under a rock.
OP - yes, the point of the receipts is that you can demonstrate harrassment over time. In this specific incident, you could try asking down the copshop asking for confirmation that there was such a description of a suspect being circulated at the time or whether they just made it up for their convenience. Don't know if you can FOIA this sort of information, but they tweet enough of it ...
But you know, carry on assuming that this was legit. It's a lot easier than pulling your head out from under a rock.
OP - yes, the point of the receipts is that you can demonstrate harrassment over time. In this specific incident, you could try asking down the copshop asking for confirmation that there was such a description of a suspect being circulated at the time or whether they just made it up for their convenience. Don't know if you can FOIA this sort of information, but they tweet enough of it ...
As you are a new member, I appreciate that you won't have had the time to look through the pages for discussions/concerns about disproportionality of stop and search, the racist behaviour of some coppers, dispersal zones, how young Black people are treated by the police, etc. You'll find that, overwhelmingly, Urban members are very supportive, some experience these issues themselves, and some are very active at a community level in addressing these matters with the police. For example, a good few of us are members of the Lambeth Community Police Group (LCPG, which has a sub-group devoted to stop & search.
You might well have not had the response you were expecting because the situation you describe doesn't quite fit into a totally arbitrary search based soley on seeing someone on the street who is Black and wearing a hoodie, let's say. I witnessed a stabbing in Streatham a few years back, where a Jamaican guy was robbed of his phone by a young man, who he then pursued in an effort to get his phone back, and ended up getting stabbed. Robberies, especially where violence is used, is traumatic for people. If the police know that the suspected perp has got on a bus, and have info on some items of clothing, then surely it is their duty to pursue him? I use the buses a lot, as I visit clients within Lambeth, and have never known police come on a bus to do random stop & searches.
A bit of advice, post something like, 'only answer if you agree with me', and you will be ridiculed, cos its a stupid thing to write. Other than that, have a look at the postings, you will find that most people on here do not collude with institutional racism, overt racism on the part of some police, and the disproportionate stop & Search of BME people. If you don't already, come along to the LCPG monthly meeting where the issue you raise is discussed on a very regular basis.
You might well have not had the response you were expecting because the situation you describe doesn't quite fit into a totally arbitrary search based soley on seeing someone on the street who is Black and wearing a hoodie, let's say. I witnessed a stabbing in Streatham a few years back, where a Jamaican guy was robbed of his phone by a young man, who he then pursued in an effort to get his phone back, and ended up getting stabbed. Robberies, especially where violence is used, is traumatic for people. If the police know that the suspected perp has got on a bus, and have info on some items of clothing, then surely it is their duty to pursue him? I use the buses a lot, as I visit clients within Lambeth, and have never known police come on a bus to do random stop & searches.
A bit of advice, post something like, 'only answer if you agree with me', and you will be ridiculed, cos its a stupid thing to write. Other than that, have a look at the postings, you will find that most people on here do not collude with institutional racism, overt racism on the part of some police, and the disproportionate stop & Search of BME people. If you don't already, come along to the LCPG monthly meeting where the issue you raise is discussed on a very regular basis.
numbercruncher
New Member
Based on the scenario you’ve described i.e. “Police looking for a black guy in a green jacket because allegedly there had been a robbery somewhere and the robber got onto a bus” – had you been wearing a green jacket and stopped by Police on the bus so long as you give sensible answers to logical questions such as where you’ve just come from, items you’re carrying etc the Police aren’t doing anything wrong other than following up a lead to a crime. If you fit the description to a suspect for a crime and let us say refuse to answer questions then I can’t see how it could be classed as a wrongful arrest.
Page 7 of the South London Press (Fri 9/3) has a short report on a robbery on Atlantic Road in which a woman was shoved to the ground and needed hospital treatment. It says 3 people were involved, one white woman wearing a brown puffer jacket and two young black guys, one of whom was wearing a dark green jacket. I wonder if it was the same case diddums mentioned.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I think the police shoulda questioned everybody on the bus.
Just to be fair.
It's good to be fair. And just.
I think it's right and proper for the police never to simply act on the details provided by a witness when really all of us are guilty of somethin and could be the very person they are looking for for any crime committed ever.
Don't reply if you disagree with me.
This a forum, not a place for a freedom of expression and intelligent debate!
Just to be fair.
It's good to be fair. And just.
I think it's right and proper for the police never to simply act on the details provided by a witness when really all of us are guilty of somethin and could be the very person they are looking for for any crime committed ever.
Don't reply if you disagree with me.
This a forum, not a place for a freedom of expression and intelligent debate!
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
I can't answer your question but I agree the bolded bit is stupid, go start a blog or something
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I'm white and in Surrey. if Brixton police got a tip off that a black man in a green jacket had robbed someone and the police pulled me over to question me about it, how pissed off should I be?
I imagine you'd write a strongly worded letter to the Surrey Gazette.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I think I'd better write one anyway, just to be safe.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
In Nottingham a lot of people I know do get harassed by the police but they tend to genuinely use incidents like this as a way to hassle people. They tend to go with a far broader description - I've known people wearing very different clothing and of all ages get a stop and search for the same incident before, one guy was only about 19 and wearing his work suit, and another was a mates uncle and pushing 70, and this was all hours later.
TBF in this case it sounds like they were limiting their enquiries to people who fit the description (i.e. wearing the right colour jacket, and on a bus that had been in the right area at the right time) - clearly if they were dragging you off a bus in Leytonstone ten mins after the incident they would have been stretching it a bit.
They do have the right to question people though, and yes it's shit. The fact I have several old tattoos narrowly avoided my being carted off by armed police once as someone else who stayed on my mate's sofa had done some sort of serious armed robbery, and I'm white and female. These things happen, as the only thing they had was a description and I fit it - dyed hair shoulder length, slight build, similar age, etc. I didn't have any ID on me so I would have been taken in for sure otherwise. These things happen sometimes. *shrug*
Rushy
basically a scrotum
In Nottingham a lot of people I know do get harassed by the police but they tend to genuinely use incidents like this as a way to hassle people. They tend to go with a far broader description - I've known people wearing very different clothing and of all ages get a stop and search for the same incident before, one guy was only about 19 and wearing his work suit, and another was a mates uncle and pushing 70, and this was all hours later.
Long time ago but me and a mate got stopped and searched by police with dogs on our doorstep in Nottingham. They had seen us get out of a mini a few yards away and reckoned we fitted the description of a pair seen burgling a neighbours house. They had us legs spread, dogs at our ankles and palms against the wall whilst they went through our pockets. They found a set of keys (surprise surprise) and said keys had been stolen from the neighbour's back door. I told him they were mine and suggested that, since we were outside my home they could try the keys in our front door. They did and the keys worked but the guy said that wasn't good enough proof because it might be a coincidence. He then took my wallet and asked me for the number on my debit card; so I told him the account number, but again that wasn't good enough and he wanted the the long number to prove it was mine - who the f knows the long number on their credit card? And then a call came over the radio and they just buggered off.
Amusingly, we were both in costume as we were on our way home from a dress rehearsal for a show. So I'd love to know what the description was that we apparently matched.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
My partner gets this sort of shit a lot. It's not just the descriptions that magically fit him every time, it's the constant harassment by whatever excuse available. He got stopped once on the grounds that he was walking through the village late at night with shopping bags and there were no shops open late. There was a 24 hour Sainsbury's less than a mile away. 
That was about 200 yards from where we were moored, in a spot that had had two or three boats with people living on them for at least 4 years to my personal knowledge. My partner was pottering about on deck one day and the same copper decided to question him about it. Never once happened to the two white guys who had lived there for four years.
Then there was the night we had a flat tyre and neither of us had our phones with us, so I went off to the phone box around the corner. When I got back, there were two coppers crawling all over the car. One of them came up to me very quickly, checked that it was my car, and the two of them spent half an hour crawling around in the gutter on a rainy night trying to get the wheel off for us. I thought this was unusually dedicated, until my partner explained what had happened whilst I had been at the phone box. They had said he was lying because there was no phone box in the village (it's on the high street and very easy to find), that the seat was too far forward for him to be the driver so he must have stolen it (he'd already said it was my car, and how could he have stolen it if he couldn't have driven it?), and then proceeded to take the car off the jack and search the interior.
And this is all in posh Cotswold village territory. He gets stopped a helluva lot less since we moved out of town. Cunts.
That was about 200 yards from where we were moored, in a spot that had had two or three boats with people living on them for at least 4 years to my personal knowledge. My partner was pottering about on deck one day and the same copper decided to question him about it. Never once happened to the two white guys who had lived there for four years.
Then there was the night we had a flat tyre and neither of us had our phones with us, so I went off to the phone box around the corner. When I got back, there were two coppers crawling all over the car. One of them came up to me very quickly, checked that it was my car, and the two of them spent half an hour crawling around in the gutter on a rainy night trying to get the wheel off for us. I thought this was unusually dedicated, until my partner explained what had happened whilst I had been at the phone box. They had said he was lying because there was no phone box in the village (it's on the high street and very easy to find), that the seat was too far forward for him to be the driver so he must have stolen it (he'd already said it was my car, and how could he have stolen it if he couldn't have driven it?), and then proceeded to take the car off the jack and search the interior.
And this is all in posh Cotswold village territory. He gets stopped a helluva lot less since we moved out of town. Cunts.
