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Usury

DotCommunist said:
how did you come by this storage capacity?
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Everyone has the capacity on their small holding, so that's not a factor here. It's the effort required to stack the apples, keep the place clean, scrape sulphur from the local volcano for use in warding off rot and pests, that sort of thing.
 
camouflage said:
If money acts as if it's alive then it's because it's a reflection of a living thing, human society. we need it to grow and move about because that's what we do.
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Except that money is a relatively recent invention (2500 years ago in Lydia) and thus obviously not necessary for human society.
 
phildwyer said:
Isn't it time to call a spade a spade?

The world of today is ruled by usury. And the rule of usury is evil.

The fact that most people don't know what "usury" means is the most efficient instrument facilitating its rule.

So perhaps we should think about what usury is, and about what it does.

I'll begin by pointing out that usury is not merely an economic phenomenon. Indeed the illusion that there exists a discrete field of human life known as "the economy" is among usury's most pernicious effects.

In my opinion. Yours?
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As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
--proverbs 26:11
 
bi0boy said:
So if I say you can have 6 sacks of my stored apples now, but you must give me back 7 sacks come next harvest time, on account of apples having more value now because of the effort put in to storing them safely, is that evil ursury?
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yes. You should be grateful to receive six sacks back. You clearly had more apples than you needed and they'd just have gone off.
 
phildwyer said:
Except that money is a relatively recent invention (2500 years ago in Lydia) and thus obviously not necessary for human society.
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Chinese were using tokens of exchange (firstly shells then other materials carved into the shape of shells) well before that. The fact that they came up with metal coins at about the same time as the Romans suggests that while it's not 'necessary' it may be sort of inevitable that tokens of exchange become standardised.
 
phildwyer said:
Except that money is a relatively recent invention (2500 years ago in Lydia) and thus obviously not necessary for human society.
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They didn't have lots of things 2500 years ago, but no one except loony primitivists would suggest that those things are "obviously not necessary for human society".
 
bi0boy said:
So if I say you can have 6 sacks of my stored apples now, but you must give me back 7 sacks come next harvest time, on account of apples having more value now because of the effort put in to storing them safely, is that evil ursury?
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TBF, the bears would just nick your apples. I mean, who's going to stop them?
 
Bernie Gunther said:
So I've never quite gotten clear about why you want to talk about 'usury' instead of say 'capital'

The former comes (at least for me) with a whole lot of religious baggage, so I'd be curious to know why you prefer to use it in this context.

Some of the time when you're talking about this stuff I wonder whether if you were to recast what you're saying in more conventional e.g. Marxist, terminology, it'd make just as much sense and be a lot easier for people to get on with.

Do you think the religious language (or whatever you want to call it) is essential to your point? If so I'd be curious to know why.
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don't get him started on the rational proof of the existence of god *again* :(
 
Fez909 said:
Usury is bad, and comes about because money is evil. If evil exists (and money does, which is the same thing) then it must be a manifestation of the devil. Money is magic. The opposite to the devil is God, therefore he exists.

420 pages saved.
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I don't know why he's been allowed back on tbh.
 
phildwyer said:
Isn't it time to call a spade a spade?

The world of today is ruled by usury. And the rule of usury is evil.

The fact that most people don't know what "usury" means is the most efficient instrument facilitating its rule.

So perhaps we should think about what usury is, and about what it does.

I'll begin by pointing out that usury is not merely an economic phenomenon. Indeed the illusion that there exists a discrete field of human life known as "the economy" is among usury's most pernicious effects.

In my opinion. Yours?
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My question, is what is/are the fundamental ills? Possibly greed and selfishness, from which usury arises.
 
Where does the basis for lending money at interest being wrong come from? (Christianity?). I guess that it enables the rich to become richer pretty effectively.
 
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