UAF Conference: A rant

[Frank Drebben]

It's not a matter of "putting our differences aside"; it's a matter of recognising that Hain's mob are directly responsible for the conditions in which the BNP is thriving.

Well capitalism is really rather than just New Labour and would you rather have Camerons Green Hoodies in power or the Lib Dems? The trouble with posts like yours is that aside from a socialist or anarchist state all governments are responsible.

 

[Nigel]

Point taken. The lack of viable alternative Left party is a ridiculously big problem. But I was objecting to Peter Hain as Blairite crusader being given a platform as a particularly nauseating aspect of the day. When i said "...capitalist scum cycle that has resulted in labour becoming New Labour and there being no working class party for people to vote for, hence they vote BNP!" that was a bit flippant and simplistic. I dont lay the blame squarely at the door of the moronic New Labour government.

The main point I wanted to make is that the UAF people, along with all the mugs they had dragged to the TUC conference on Saturday, would be better off putting their efforts into becoming active members of existing parties that are attempting to offer a viable Left alternative. Instead of deluding themselves and patting themselves on the back for a job well done for a conference which did fuck all for the fight against fascism.

We Need To Build For A New Workers' Party!!!!!!!

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/MassWorkers/index.html

 

[Streathamite]

Not really - it was often labour councils that led the switch to identity politics way back in the 70s that started a progressive alienation of the white w/c in their own communities; all NuLab has done is continue the ludicrous policies of multiculturalism started in the 80s and turned into some kind of mantra.

I don't doubt that NuLabs 'neo-liberal' policies have had some impact, especially at the sharp end of housing provision and service delivery to poor communities, but it's not just poor areas where the BNP are making inroads, it's in many places that the AR/AF movements have never really bothered looking, places that are slightly more affluent, but have never had the idea that 'them' are coming, and in greater numbers, dispelled in any systematic way.

The re-emergence of the BNP is a failure of the left (or indeed any anti-racists) at the local level to be inclusive of the indigenous population, and a failure to engage with people who feel that wave after wave of immigrants IS scary, and DOES mean that they'll be getting less.

absolutely spot on

 

[treelover]

well somethings going wrong;

Election results
Illingworth and Mixenden Ward Bye Election - 22nd Feb 2007
Illingworth and Mixenden

Bates, Thomas - British National Party 1034
Elder, Michael Murray - Liberal Democrats 150
Gannon, Judith Mary - Labour 1104 - Elected
Hardy, John Cecil David - Conservative 525
Loftus, Sean Vincent - Independent 68

Percentage polled: 31.66%

 

[Luciona]

We Need To Build For A New Workers' Party!!!!!!!

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/MassWorkers/index.html

Indeed, to name just one..... Respect, SWP, etc etc which is why i said:

The main point I wanted to make is that the UAF people, along with all the mugs they had dragged to the TUC conference on Saturday, would be better off putting their efforts into becoming active members of existing parties that are attempting to offer a viable Left alternative. Instead of deluding themselves and patting themselves on the back for a job well done for a conference which did fuck all for the fight against fascism.

 

[Luciona]

well somethings going wrong;

failure to engage with people who feel that wave after wave of immigrants IS scary, and DOES mean that they'll be getting less.

Of course some anti-immigrant fears will always occur - but Murdoch fosters the most toxic strain of foreigner-fearing nationalism, and makes successive governments bow to it with the threat of a Kinnocking. Would Brown - a cerebral and essentially decent man - be letting his team talk about forcing immigrants to sweep the streets if Murdoch and other right-wing press barons didn't hold such power to poison public opinion?
Yet there seems to be no chance the government inquiry will restrict Murdoch to a sensible one-paper, one-TV-channel ration. On the contrary, Brown is bowing to his power, warping his views on Britishness to fit a Murdochian mould. Meanwhile, David Cameron, Alan Milburn, and all other major political pretenders genuflect to him just as quickly. This is one bleak reason why the ugliest issue in British politics will never be allowed to rest.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2314176.ece

Next time time there is a UAF meet scheduled, or a protest gathering to lambast a BNP ballerina for that matter, we should "invite Murdoch and Gordon Brown to speak" and do a ceremonial banging of their heads together followed by the televised revolution starting with the Times, Sun, ITV, Sky and New Labour HQ getting torched.

 

[Luciona]

well somethings going wrong;.

failure to engage with people who feel that wave after wave of immigrants IS scary, and DOES mean that they'll be getting less.

Of course some anti-immigrant fears will always occur - but Murdoch fosters the most toxic strain of foreigner-fearing nationalism, and makes successive governments bow to it with the threat of a Kinnocking. Would Brown - a cerebral and essentially decent man - be letting his team talk about forcing immigrants to sweep the streets if Murdoch and other right-wing press barons didn't hold such power to poison public opinion?
Yet there seems to be no chance the government inquiry will restrict Murdoch to a sensible one-paper, one-TV-channel ration. On the contrary, Brown is bowing to his power, warping his views on Britishness to fit a Murdochian mould. Meanwhile, David Cameron, Alan Milburn, and all other major political pretenders genuflect to him just as quickly. This is one bleak reason why the ugliest issue in British politics will never be allowed to rest.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2314176.ece

Next time time there is a UAF meet scheduled, or a protest gathering to lambast a BNP ballerina for that matter, we should invite Murdoch and Gordon Brown to speak and do a ceremonial banging of their heads together followed by the televised revolution starting with the Times, Sun, ITV, Sky and New Labout HQ getting torched.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yet again, taking the easy targets - Murdoch and the media.

Never actually looking at the hard reasons - it's always 'the media' that create this...well, interestingly enough, but the bulk of BNP voters come from the demographs that are LEAST LIKELY to read a national newspaper (indeed, least likely to watch or read news full stop). Their prejudice is fed LOCALLY by word of mouth - aka gossip - about how so and so was refused a house because of 'some immigrants'; or how some girl was abused/attacked by 'some immigrants'.

If you can't even identify the main conduits of information within the groups you're actively campaigning to, how on earth can you ever expect to be sucessful?

 

[Luciona]

I am on the same side as you. As you have consistently demonstrated on this thread you clearly know a lot of important facts surrounding this issue. I am still learning. And I keep picking out and quoting you on that particular bit because it is the crux of the matter and brilliantly sums up the challenge faced. Where we have disagreed I suppose is the degree to which New Labour/the media has made this situation worse/ingrained/acceptable.

I am really interested in the root causes and how to stop it and of course, like everyone, including all those involved in UAF I want to be successful. That is why I ranted when I could see a lot of resources and time being wasted and confused messages being given out by involving people who should at least admit to being partly to blame. (For these so-called leaders of men (like Peter Hain) to be worth listening to on fighting fascism, I happen to believe that their political contribution should not be sharply inclined towards a party line that fuels and gives legitimacy to the narrow mindedness, lies and idle gossip of Mr. and Mrs. Non-Political Readsno-Newspapers. Its hypocrisy and it stinks. )

I have been round door to door on estates in Dagenham in the run up to elections and spoken to people, counter canvassing. I have had blazing arguments with my cousin who lives in Huddersfield and was beaten up and had is head smashed open by a gang of Asian boys, a word of mouth story from a non newspaper reading, non political man in his early 20s who due to bitter personal experience felt BNP might be a good thing to get involved in. I hate the power that such personal stories carry in silencing or seemingly weakening the arguments of those who are trying to put pay to intolerance and hatred of people who are perceived to be different and threatening. I hope we have some success in my lifetime but articles like that of Johann Hari talking about what our ‘leaders’ see as their priority are depressing.

 

[kyser_soze]

You are having success in your lifetime - but it's by going out and TALKING to people about their lives and personal experience and getting them to question their own orthodoxies over this issue than people making grandstand speeches (more to the point, a bunch of metropolitan liberal do-gooders come down to visit the proles to tell them all how wrong they are...)

I remember once, years ago at Uni, really pissing off the local UAF mob by asking them to provide solid evidence that per-head spending on immigrants was matched with spending on existing communities - white and non-white - and if not, what were the reasons behind that discrepancy. They went mad - accusing me of all sorts of things, from being an infiltrator to 'completely missing the point of being anti-racist' ('the point' was never actually explained to me), but not a single person there could tell me the answer and it was the one thing that came up time after time in conversations with my white work colleagues at the Surrey Quays Tesco - that 'they' got more money spent on them, and I had no way of saying 'No they don't' or 'Yes, but look at their situation, and look at how that spending drops over the first year/2 years...'

You also have to get behind racism and find out whether someone is racist through economics and fear, or is an intellectual racist who believes in the separation of races, the superiority of whites etc - I've met very few anti-fascist/racist types who ever look deep enough to make the distinction, but it's fundamental in how you can approach and deal with the issue on an individual basis.

Plus it's cyclical - we're going through another wave of immigration coupled with heightened tensions with a large religious minority who happen to be largely immigrant/2nd generation which leads to the confusion and conflation of religious bigotry with racism, or using religion as a blanket for racism.

 

[Luciona]

You are having success in your lifetime - but it's by going out and TALKING to people about their lives and personal experience and getting them to question their own orthodoxies over this issue than people making grandstand speeches (more to the point, a bunch of metropolitan liberal do-gooders come down to visit the proles to tell them all how wrong they are...) .

Defintely. I completely agree. Case in point Margaret Hodge outside Dagenham station in run up to election looking like rabbit in headlights...
But me and the people I was going round the houses with were all of working class roots and, like me were brought up by factory workers who have said many prejudiced things and thought many racist thoughts throughout their hard working lives. Indeed my dad objected to me going my ex boyfriend because he was Indian and Muslim and came out with some hurtful ignorant statements surrounding it. As you say though, the best thing you can do is talk to people and more facts you have the better. My mum and dad are good people and they arent thick. And their views on those scores were pretty fragile, without any foundation.

- that 'they' got more money spent on them, and I had no way of saying 'No they don't' or 'Yes, but look at their situation, and look at how that spending drops over the first year/2 years...'.

Yes i could have done with some more facts when i spoke to my cousin as his experience had lead him to drink in lies that justified his anger and directed it to a whole community rather than just the boy who smashed his head

- You also have to get behind racism and find out whether someone is racist through economics and fear, or is an intellectual racist who believes in the separation of races, the superiority of whites etc - I've met very few anti-fascist/racist types who ever look deep enough to make the distinction, but it's fundamental in how you can approach and deal with the issue on an individual basis..

Definitely. Wish stuff like this could be talked about at conferences like the UAF to reach that captive audience. As I say though it was very top-heavy.. And the only speaker who spoke with any sort of intellectual authority was Maleiha Malik from Kings College who was impressive but a lone voice. (other than a few voices that were silenced in the seminars by the UAF chair)

Plus it's cyclical - we're going through another wave of immigration coupled with heightened tensions with a large religious minority who happen to be largely immigrant/2nd generation which leads to the confusion and conflation of religious bigotry with racism, or using religion as a blanket for racism.

Yes I wanted to say this at one point but couldnt put it more articulately than that.

 

[Luciona]

Oh just add and then will stop harping on... I think it’s an important point Kyser made about BNP targeting various different areas… as when I was living in Teesside we went round taking BNP leaflets out of doors/talking to people/counter canvassing in places like Eaglescliffe which is a rich area, big houses cars etc, limited political activism probably more people reading Daily mail if any paper at all. I think whatever kind of area it may be that the BNP have targeted, people appreciate anti racist presence/counter leafleting (well many of them said so) as a good thing that makes them feel less bemused/fearful about the crap that has fallen onto their doorstep courtesy of the BNP.

 

[Portia]

so DO immigrants get more money than local people or what? i've never seen any actual evidence either way. it sounds unlikely to me... but is it actually true? and if so, why? it would be daft, no?

 

[vapo]

He and the vast majority of the conference speakers and organisers seem to be all too willing to offer up ‘’vote labour’’ as a solution

Maybe that's just it. Issues are used by politicos for their own ends, sincerity is optional. For instance I can't see David Cameron riding around London on a bike when he is Prime Minister.