Too many junkies in Brixton

[editor]

I think things may be getting a little too "edgy" around chez urban75 at the moment.

The junkies are now firmly back for the summer and da yoot are turning a bit moody too.

Right now, there's two junkies rummaging around in the garage outside, and they'll soon be joined by others leaving their shit, rubbish and bloody needles in front of my block.

Such is the rise in junkies that the council appear to have given up on Loughborough Park too.

They've already flattened the small walled garden that was there (leaving a right mess in its place) and now they've put up a 'Sharps Box' by one of the park benches.

While I'm all for 'Sharps Boxes' if they're being used (we've got one bolted on our wall that's usually ignored), I really don't believe a public park is the right place for them - surely that's just saying that it's cool for junkies to inject there?

Don't forget there's a kids play centre right in the middle, although I imagine most parents wouldn't let their kids run loose in the park now.

I know there's no easy solution to this problem, but it can't be healthy for the community to have so much unchecked junkie activity, can it?

As for me, I'd go for a firm but fair policy, with a low tolerance for street injecting backed up by properly-funded health and rehabilitation facilities, re-education and opportunities.

What do others think?

 

[silentNate]

I actually don't like posting on this forum but I feel shooting galleries in Brixton would be a really good idea....
Access to services are what junkies really need

 

[fanta]

Who controls the purse strings?

The bottom line is: are local people willing to pay more in tax to fund projects like shooting galleries, clean needle distribution and a whole programme of better treatment for hard drug addiction?

Personally - yes!

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

you do have to be a bit carefull when cleaning the front garden ... our house isn't too bad as you have a fairly clear view of it from the street but next door where you can't see the lower part from the street there used to be piles of needles down there

it's useually my job to clean up our one so i do feel a bit disconcerted that i may have an acident ...

 

[Stobart Stopper]

About 7 years ago we had a major problem with kids congregating at the end of our cul de sac and shooting up, they were pissed every night and sniffing glue...... the last straw was when my boy, who was about 3 years old, nearly stepped on a needle one summer when he was wearing sandals.We had gone over to the grass verge to walk my neighbour's dog.

I got all of the neighbours together, we wrote a letter and addressed it to the following:

Commander of police at Edmonton.
Home Office
Downing Street
Barkingside Police Station, Cheif Superintendent
Local council
MP
Local newspaper (who also ran a front page article)

Boy, did the shit hit the fan or what????

Within days the kids were being rounded up and taken home to their parents, searched for drugs etc. They soon gave up, the kids I mean.

 

[Streathamite]

This ain't just a handful of local munchkins Stobart, the problem's bigger than that.
So-opening the debate-if not in parks, or out on the streets, where?
I think there's a consensus here for proper health & rehab programmes, and post-rehab opportunities but in the meantime, in the short-term?...Arrest 'em? Cart 'em off to the nick? Open some sorta special 'facility'? Brixton, I think, needs a state-run shooting-gallery.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

But will a 'shooting-gallery' solve your problem?

Even if they do this, will it completely remove the problems you have on the streets? Will some of the drug-takers still refuse to use these places? You can't forcefully march them down there and say "Right, here you go, if you want to shoot up, whatever you must do it here."

I am all for controlled places where drug addicts can go, but surely some will still only be happy to be on the streets?

 

[editor]

Brixton, I think, needs a state-run shooting-gallery.

Me too, but I'd only support that if it came with full, long term medical/social support and offered real and meaningful incentives to help/elbow them out of their addiction.

And where would you site the gallery?

I'll be frank here and admit to my NIMBYism: I'm really fed up with junkies injecting, shitting and pissing all around my block and don't see why the long suffering residents should have to put up with their activities any longer.

There's loads of low level crime linked to their activities (nicking from local shops/cars etc) and you couldn't blame residents for not being too enthusiastic.

Stobart: I don't think 'Junkies in Brixton' would make front page headlines around these parts!

 

[bruise]

after a _major_ change in the law

365/24/7 clinics (staffed by nurses, out-reach youth & benefit & careers workers) where clean, pure, monitored, stable junk is supplied, free of charge to anyone with a letter from their doctor and taken on the spot - no taking away for re-selling

no preaching, but users then know that all the services are available for substance reduction and advice in other areas of their life as soon as they are ready for them (a single, free supply will in itself do a lot to help people maintain a constant habit and so start getting themselves more together and cut the link to criminal activity) plus alternatives like methodone available or other reduction methods - plus the relevant bit of 'trainspotting' available as a take-away photocopy!

this shouldn't be the usual nuLab put one somewhere - because then you attract more people into that area - it should start at the level of one per borough at minimum

you instantly undermine the drugs trade. the uk govt. could do it's own supply from afghanisatan and link it to monitored improvements in social conditions there

far better for the end user

wipes out the dealers

massive crime reduction

everybody benefits

(mind you - i don't know enough about crack to know whether it would work with that as well - this is a suggestion for smack)

ok - back to the real world now. fuck knows.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Stobart: I don't think 'Junkies in Brixton' would make front page headlines around these parts!

Fair point, can't argue with that!

How about spending money on the real causes of drug problems, ie.....the disillusioned, misplaced kids who live in terrible conditions, with parents who don't give a fuck, an education system which is failing them, day in day out?

Fuck me, if I had no hope, nothing to look forward to, no-one who believes in me, I'd be taking drugs too. Pig once dealt with a young black kid on an estate in east London who was bought in for stealing to feed his drug habit. He was a lovely boy, about 15 years old, had never been in trouble with the police before, but he had a shit home life. He had no-one. My husband bent over backwards to help this boy, to try to get him clean, to sort him out with social services. This is what needs to be done, not throwing these kids on the scrapheap.

Ah fuck it, I am in a bad mood, they spend fuckloads of meney on their stupid bombs, Domes, 10 million quid on the visit by some fuckwit US president. It should be spent on our kids, the ones who think they have no future. It can be done and it just pisses me off that we have a whole generation of children in the UK who see no future.That's where the money needs to be spent.

 

[bruise]

agree - the tories basically destroyed the youth service, and there's never been any pressure on nuLab to get it back together again. result - switched off kids and lost of crime. hardly a surprise.

 

[Streathamite]

But will a 'shooting-gallery' solve your problem?

Even if they do this, will it completely remove the problems you have on the streets? Will some of the drug-takers still refuse to use these places? You can't forcefully march them down there and say "Right, here you go, if you want to shoot up, whatever you must do it here."

I am all for controlled places where drug addicts can go, but surely some will still only be happy to be on the streets?

As mike and bruise point out, it will help ameliorate the problem - significantly, I think - if done as part of an integrated approach. We need a New Deal for junkies; Rehab, Education, employment opportunities, social support, counselling, and yes, a shooting gallery - and, regrettably, this last needs to be as part of a clinical/medical facility, if necessary in a hospital (not the best answer-merely the least awful). That way, you change their environment; consequently, you change their practices, way of doing things, and thus, hopefully, their Habit.
What you can't do, I agree with you entirely, is force ALL junkies to use this facility; this is one policy we'll NEVER get completely right. What you can do however, is tilt the odds in favour of protecting everyone else, reducing crime and turning addiction into rehab/abstention. Although Heroin is a drug which sucks your soul out of your arse - you can make it sufficiently in the junkies' interest to go along with this, to ensure that most will.

 

[Isambard]

I was just passing on my way for a £6 cocktail.

Basicly what Bruise said.

I think putting a sharps disposal bin is not a good idea as it does seem to encourage use in an area where it is a major hassle for residents: kids can't play, low level crime etc etc etc. better would be imvho "roving teams" with needle swaps / info on projects etc etc.

In the absence of clean shooting galleries etc, I know (at least from Munich) that the police actually prefer there to be know junky gathering points in certain parks or squares or stations or whatever as it makes their job "easier" to control the scene. If they bust it all up and there aren't the facilities mentioned available, the whole thing just establishes itself on someone else's estate or local shopping precict and the police have no idea what is going on.

Just my 2p like.

 

[Bob]

Me too, but I'd only support that if it came with full, long term medical/social support and offered real and meaningful incentives to help/elbow them out of their addiction.

Couple of questions:
1. Isn't the new Crack drop in clinic on Coldharbour lane meant to offer something of this sort?
2. Do you know what the a) Moorlands residents association (or whatever it's called), b) the Coldharbour councillors think of what the council are doing?
3. The UDP has a plan to build on the green space on Coldharbour lane in front of the barrier block. This seems quite sensible to me - it's hardly a loved bit of greenspace and even if you gave it to private developers you could probably get 70% social housing. Anyone know if there are any specific plans for this?
4. Looking at the stuff that Lang Rabbie put up last week on the Council anti crime strategy it looks to me as if a fair amount of what people want here is being planned - what's not clear to me is when it starts, and on what scale...

 

[bruise]

What you can't do, I agree with you entirely, is force ALL junkies to use this facility; this is one policy we'll NEVER get completely right.

who needs force? in a choice between clean pure and free stuff compared to udulterated, crap expensive stuff, it's clear what would win out

but that needs decriminalisation and sorting out the back door supply bit (which issue Holland never sorted out)

and changing attitudes to where it's a medical/individual issue, not a social crime and violence issue.

with a bold change in the law, i think the benefits would be overnight. but it isn't going to happen with Blunkett in charge, so...

 

[Streathamite]

'force' is, in retrospect, an unfortunate word. I merely refer to that (small) minority of junkies who will still, in the scenario I laid out, want nothing to do with what the health services can offer. No, there won't be many, but they will still be there, for reasons best known to themselves.
wrt Blunkett - I can't think of ANY Home secretary of the past 30 years who'd have had the sense to decriminalise and do all that's suggested on this thread. Then again, they listen to cops, screws, immigration and probation people-not healthcare experts.

 

[bruise]

true

mind you - even the police, well some police - have made supportive noises about decriminalisation.

i think the real problem is the tabloids and the fear of the tabloid reaction.

i think it's a hard-nosed policy that you could justify for very pragmatic, practical reasons (ie even if you didn't give a damn about the end users themselves) but it would be a political risk, no question

 

[editor]

Couple of questions:
3. The UDP has a plan to build on the green space on Coldharbour lane in front of the barrier block. This seems quite sensible to me - it's hardly a loved bit of greenspace and even if you gave it to private developers you could probably get 70% social housing. Anyone know if there are any specific plans for this?

No, no, no!

That green space may not be much loved by you, but it's an asset to the residents of the block - and it's one of the few open spaces on Coldharbour Lane, supporting a fair amount of wildlife, with lots of trees improving the quality of life all round.

Building in front of the block would effectively 'push' it into a less visible - and probably less safe - position and effectively disconnect the block from the main road.

Most council blocks have some sort of green space in front of them: why should the residents of Southwyck House be forced to look over a pile of concrete and bricks instead?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

There was an excellent discussion on this very subject about two years ago - many of the arguments are still relevant.

My 7-point Sort Out Brixton plan!

 

[lang rabbie]

Bob - you've not been reading all my planning posts - I feel spurned

I inlcuded links on the state of play with the UDP (as at December) was in the first post on this thread.

Unless there has been a last minute change of mind, I think that most of the green space along Coldharbour Lane is currently safe.

 

[Bob]

Bob - you've not been reading all my planning posts - I feel spurned

I inlcuded links on the state of play with the UDP (as at December) was in the first post on this thread.

Unless there has been a last minute change of mind, I think that most of the green space along Coldharbour Lane is currently safe.

That's odd - I'm sure the thing I read said that it was the final UDP....

Not sure all blocks having grass in front of them is particularly a good idea - though it may be in the case of the barrier block - where I live the green spaces like this are almost all unused.

 

[hatboy]

The UDP is not finalised. It is in fact reviewed from time to time I think. But it's not finalised right now. The plans for building in front of Southwyck House (you'll be pleased to hear Mike) have been dropped after pressure from residents.

I personally wouldn't mind some of it going and the whole thing being re-done to get rid of the strip behind the garage that's a right dump, and upgrade what's left to include more useful facilities for children's play. But people who live in the barrier should have the say on that. AFAIK they have.

 

[editor]

There was an excellent discussion on this very subject about two years ago - many of the arguments are still relevant.

My 7-point Sort Out Brixton plan!

And - sadly - barely any of my original points have been addressed!

1. Stick some huge, fuck-off lights along the dimly-lit, lone-female-worrying, drug dealer infested Electric Lane and Electric Avenue
2. Stick some huge, fuck-off lights along the stretch of Coldharbour Lane to Brixton Road
3. Install some urinals on Electric Avenue (by Iceland) as the place stinks of piss and always has done.
4. Put up a big sign that tells you the times and destinations of the overground trains at Brixton BR station
5. Put another big sign by the tube station - most people haven't a clue when and where the BR trains go
6. Rebuild the old Brixton BR third platform and the old Loughborough Park BR station on Coldharbour Lane (corner w/Barrington Rd) to allow direct route to Peckham, Lewisham etc
7. Fix the water that has dripped down on pedestrians from the rail bridge by the Dogstar since at least 1991

Re: the space outside the Barrier Block.

Getting rid of the garage and creating a safe, child-friendly space like Rush Common (on Brixton Hill) would be a vast improvement, although wardens/security staff would have to be budgeted in to prevent it becoming as unpleasantly tatty and over-run with junkies as Loughborough Park nearby.

 

[newbie]

Rush Common has its very own sharps box and periodic visits by the Crack Out van to collect needles & condoms from the undergrowth.

 

[editor]

Rush Common has its very own sharps box and periodic visits by the Crack Out van to collect needles & condoms from the undergrowth.

Ugh! That's just what it's like outside my block.

And what a shit job that must be!

 

[sophie]

Stobart Stopper I whole heartedly agree with your points and feel passionately about this failing of society.

I am part of scheme where I give up lunch hours to teach kids at a school in a very deprived part of East London where the pupils very rarely receive encouragement and 1 on 1 teaching and we go there in the hope of making them feel like they count and that their education is important as most of them don't receive this message from home.

Its great that companies run such schemes and that there are charities who run work shops and after school youth groups for such children.

But it is far from enough.

It is a very depressing fact of society that far too many people grow up in environments with negligible amounts of love and support and it should be a Governments responsibility to look out for these kids, they should encourage (make it compulsory??) that more people get involved in projects which can make a difference. They also need to investment far more in social services as we all know far to well from recent press articles that they are failing too many of our children. Schools definitely need more funds and also the better more passionate teachers need to be encouraged away from the nice schools (cash incentives??!?) into the ones where the facilities and results might not be so good but where the kids really need a high quality education.

These kids "with parents who don't give a fuck, who think they have no future" deserve more from the Government and more from us.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

The Ed's 7 point plan [slightly off topic, sorry!]

And - sadly - barely any of my original points have been addressed!

Unless you object Mike, I will email your suggestions to the council and see what they have to say. The local Labour members (as discussed on another thread) are very keen to hear residents' views at the moment!

 

[hatboy]

Sophie said:

"I am part of scheme where I give up lunch hours to teach kids at a school in a very deprived part of East London where the pupils very rarely receive encouragement and 1 on 1 teaching and we go there in the hope of making them feel like they count and that their education is important as most of them don't receive this message from home".

If true (I guess it is true) that is a caring and unselfish thing to do Sophie. You may be right I misjudged you. I've been upset about stuff. However, even if you are not the embodiment of the things going on in Brixton I feel are wrong, it is still happening and some people are like that. My concerns are legit even so.

But sorry if I got you wrong. See you on the escalator for a grapple.

 

[fanta]

Aw that is lovely!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Getting rid of the garage and creating a safe, child-friendly space like Rush Common (on Brixton Hill) would be a vast improvement, although wardens/security staff would have to be budgeted in to prevent it becoming as unpleasantly tatty and over-run with junkies as Loughborough Park nearby.

Some teenager got stabbed in front of all the little kiddies in the playground there a couple of years ago. Had to get the Helicopter Ambulance in